I've heard a number of A'goners recommend Pass as good amps for big, old school type speakers. Maybe worth a listen.
Better Amp for Cornwall IV's...
...Parasound 2250 v.2 / 200 Pre combo, which I own, or Denon PMA-1600NE integrated, which I don't, but I admire the build quality and appearance of? My Parasound is rated 275W into 8 Ohms / 400W into 4, while the Denon is 70W into 8 and 140 into 4. Of course, the Klipsch Cornwall IV's are quite sensitive and are rated 8 Ohms. Maybe more than which is better, which would you all prefer?
59 responses Add your response
neither. try a rogue audio cronus magnum. perfrct blend of tube sound and needed output power 100 wpc for you speakers Cornwalls don't need anything remotely close to 100 watts. I am driving them as loud as I care to listen (which is pretty loud sometimes) with 12 watts per channel or single ended EL34 tube power. Oz |
From the three amps I have, Audio Research LS2 + Parasound A21, Willsenton R8 and Muzishare X9, The X9 sounds best, more musical on all types of music, especially vocal and jazz with stock tubes without fully burn-in on the third day for the CW IV + REL HT/1508. CW IV needs a lot of power is a misconception. The X9 gets the temp right, yield deep and tight with definition bass than the R8 and even better than LS2 + A21. CW IV owners should give SET 300B type amp a try. |
| Post removed |
@ coachpoconnor , I have an XA25 and have been pondering jumping the gun on theC4s. What’s your experience with these speakers?
And, I was also considering Wilson's Sabrina (used) - Not the same price
point (about $10K), but the dynamics seem to be there based on the
reviews I've read. Perhaps not as dynamic as the C4s, but still.
|
Denon PMA-1600NE arrived double-boxed from Music Direct on 1/15/21. Fed-Ex tried to deliver it the day before but yours truly was sleeping in and missed it. I apparently also missed that a signature was required for delivery. My bad. I've got it in the cabinet and everything is purring along nicely. The amp is amping and the speakers are speaking. I also moved speakers and subs a bit, so I had to go through sub set-up again. Integration is pretty good now but I think I can improve it so I plan to hit it again tomorrow. I've got to keep punching at it and punching at it. :) The first thing I've noticed is the gain of the amp. Or maybe it's just the volume control. I have yet to get the volume up to nine o'clock. There, it's already LOUD. Even with headphones, I'm only using a tiny bit of the knob's range. I haven't noticed any noise issue yet, but I also haven't done the ear-to-the-tweeter test, either. Oh, I guess I could report that the sound through the headphone jack was quite good, and that fit and finish was really nice. It seems to be very solid and well-built. I haven't really pushed the amp at all yet, but after she gets run in for a few days I'll start pouring the coal to her and we'll see what happens. |
If I can't hear the sound of my own natural speaking voice when the music is playing, I turn it down. I usually stay in the 90-95dB range on peaks. Loud but not TOO loud.This is probably wise. My measure of the quality of a system is that it does not sound loud at any volume. This can be done if equipment that makes higher ordered harmonics and distortion is avoided. Denon's own specs are quite limited, too. They do provide this: 70W into 8 Ohms from 20-20000Hz with .07% THD and 140W into 4 Ohms at 1000Hz with .7% THD. I see no specs for peak power. The 4 Ohm rating at 1000 Hz just makes me wonder why they didn't spec it from 20-20000.You can see from these specs how important it is to avoid a 4 ohm load! In high end audio, keeping the distortion down is important, because the ear interprets all forms of distortion as a tonality. Its particularly sensitive to higher ordered harmonics and intermodulations, which it perceives as harshness and brightness. This is why so many solid state amps sound harsh and bright- its not because of a frequency response error. After you've had some time with the Denon, please post back here- I'd be interested in what you think of it. |
The 4 Ohm rating at 1000 Hz just makes me wonder why they didn’t spec it from 20-20000.Because it wouldn’t double the rated power at full band width. So it looks better to the untrained eye to list it as they did. A common trick done by most cheap receiver manufacturers. Not sure why you wouldn't go with a tube integrated. That's where Klipsch speakers shine. Oz |
I did the deed. Yesterday (1/11/21), I ordered a Denon PMA-1600NA from Music Direct. I don't know if it has "higher quality" Watts or not. We'll see. I don't know how biased into class A it is. In fact, I have not really found any independent tests of it with measurements. Denon's own specs are quite limited, too. They do provide this: 70W into 8 Ohms from 20-20000Hz with .07% THD and 140W into 4 Ohms at 1000Hz with .7% THD. I see no specs for peak power. The 4 Ohm rating at 1000 Hz just makes me wonder why they didn't spec it from 20-20000. Oh well, time will tell. Music Direct gives you 60 days to decide if you want to keep it or not. That ought to be plenty of time. |
kfscoll:I can only imagine as to the build quality of the A110 products from Denon. Must be in Luxman and Accuphase territory. |
I'd sure want to make sure I had full return privileges before going that route. It was discounted pretty heavily (almost $400), so that would be a good way to try one and at least see if I liked it. And if not, or if it was a little TOO scratched and/or dented, let them have it back. But...I'm always reluctant to return anything unless it's pretty bad. I shouldn't feel that way, but I do. |
Just get what you want and it looks like the Denon is your choice.Yes, but...I really like my Parasound pair, too! I'm like a guy who's had a good, faithful but average looking girlfriend for three years...and then I see this sexy beauty walking down the street (Cue Manfred Mann's "Doo Wah Diddy Diddy"). |
I know how luscious tubes can sound, but give me good, clean, fast, noise free, reliable and consistent, class A ss, anytime ( and this is with horns ). Just my opinion, and just what I like. Nothing debatable, listen for yourself, and decide. I own ( still ) many different ss power amps, all biased in Class A ( at least for the 1st few watts ), and with my Lascalas, I am sure, even with my spls, I stay within class A operation. |
Of course, you'd be better off with the Denon PMA-A110 integrated, which is the 110th anniversary model, and they put some special effort into. Likewise, of course, it costs more. https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/amplifiers/pma-a110 |
I have a 70wpc PrimaLuna EVO 400 tube integrated that I drive my Cornwall IVs with and it provides waaaaaaaaay more than enough power to push the speakers to deafening levels without breaking a sweat. Given that, I'm sure the 70wpc Denon would also be a great choice for the Cornwalls. You mentioned the DCD-1600NE. I just received the Denon DCD-A110 SACD player and I'm so impressed with it that it has me thinking about buying the matching integrated (PMA-A110). In other words, I think your experience with your SACD player will mirror the experience you'll have with the PMA-1600NE. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy the Denon amp if the quality of Denon's other hi-fi gear is any indication what to expect. |
Quality solid state watts at reasonable prices? McCormack DNA-0.5 (upgraded versions too if you can find one) Jeff Rowland Model 2 or Model 1 if your budget is lower Conrad Johnson MF-2250 If your budget is higher, First Watt offerings or one of Pass class A amps (XA30.5, 30.8) would be worth looking into. |
The room is 15 x 22...and I do like it loud from time to time. Back last century, from '85 to '93 to be exact, I had a pair of cornwalls powered by a Luxman MX-100 amp (140 8 Ohm Watts). Sounded real nice but I was surprised how much power was being put out to reach lifelike levels. The meters would peak around 75W but maybe they were not too accurate. Even if the sactual speaker sensitivity was only 92dB, that would be 110dB with 64W input. It wasn't THAT loud! |
why not try a rega brio? i was impressed with the mellow overall sound of this amp. it is good for about 70 wpc peak power, from what i've read, more than enough for your cornwalls. when you turn up the volume on this baby, you just get more volume, and not more distortion, one of the few in its price range you can say that about. |
@OP, I have the Cornwall IVs. I agree with so much above. They are very versatile--you could swap amps to your hearts content to change the sound. How big is your room? How loud do you like to listen? I do think you should try tubes or Class A. I have a 300B SET that sounds great but it's not enough power. I know folks will say that's sacrilegious, but it's true for me and I don't listen that loud. I do like it, but I prefer my Primaluna integrated (modified). The thing with the Cornwalls is they are so efficient you are really going to hear all of the amps positives and shortcomings. I hate to spend your money... but if I could...are you open to trying different stuff? I think you might want to. Some solid state offerings can sound dry, brittle, harsh (you name it) with these speakers. |
Yes the Klipsch site gives you absolutely no help in terms of some pertinent specifications. I think they something to the effect that some or all of their speakers are 8 ohm compatible or some such nonsense. I pretty certain that the curve of most Klipsch speakers are not ideal for tubes but the high efficiency will cure some of the other ills. I was fortunate enough to spend a few hours listening to Tri Mai's system a few weeks back. Tri is the owner of Tri-planar tonearms and I had one of his arms put on my Merrill-Williams table. Tri has a very impressive horn system that I think would make most horn enthusiasts drool. He uses modified Classic Audio speakers with Atma-sphere Novacrons (OTL) and a MP1 preamp. For what horn lovers like I havent heard many systems that deliver in these areas better than this system. |
You really need to look at the measured impedance curve.I tried to find these measurements but had no luck.If the impedance does not dip below around 6 ohms then an amplifier with a highish output impedance [typically tube amps and not SS /class D amps would be the best choice].It would seem pretty silly to make such a high sensitivity speakers not to suit those types of amps but it is possible that is what Klipsch have done.If the speakers sound a bit weak or dry in the bass that is probably because the amplifier being used has too low output impedance.Which is typical of SS amplifiers including most class A ones .Adding more power will not fix this because the bass response is overdamped by using that type of amp. If you do not want to use a tube amp then the best choice would be a Bakoon SS amp which operate electrically more like a tube/SET amp and which are current drive and have high output impedance.[Just about all SS amps are voltage drive/low output impedance]The Bakoons also sound superb and are a compelling example of why current drive /zero negative feedback/high output impedance amps sound best [if your speakers suit them and most mainstream speakers don’t]. |
You own an amp with unlimited dynamic headroom? The best I have ever heard any horn sound was with OTL amps. You dont get the significant editorializing with OTLs which I think you get with SETs. Clearer, sharper, faster with fewer colorations to my ears. As others have said mentioned dont short these speakers on power. |
"If the Cornwalls are like my Heresys, you don't want to short them on power. They need a little juice to get jumping." The best my Heresys/Heresy IIs jumped was with a Luxman R-117(why did I sell it to DeanG?) with it's 160w/ch and unlimited dynamic headroom. Needless to say, my Heresy IIs jump pretty darn well with my CA 640A v2's 75w/ch. Bill |
Also, I can't believe my first post is pointing someone to an amp that I might bid on. Oh well, should save me some money.No fear; not a tube guy! I would suggest a Luxman integratedI would LOVE a Luxman, but they're TDE (too danged expensive). :) And Bill...thanks so much for your advice. I bet that Yamaha pair is NICE!! I did see a "scratch & dent Denon 1600 for a good price on Crutchfield today. I've bought lots of open box and refurbished but never a scratch & dent. I don't think I want to go down that path. |
"I have the Denon DCD1600NE SACD player and love it! That's what got me jazzed about the Denon amp; that and it's 4-Ohm power rating and gorgeous looks. (Yes, I know I'm weird.)" Not weird at all. I like cosmetically "matching" gear like my Yamaha A-S1000/CD-S1000 combo as well as my Cambridge Audio 640A v2/840C combo. They happen to match sonically also so an added bonus. Bill |
