Best DACs under $7,000.00

Looking forward to hear impressions of GAN1 beta-testers @verdantaudio and @yyzsantabarbara on comparisons|whether GAN1 sounds better than $7K dacs.

I bought the Peachtree GAN1 today. I had Ric's first modded Voyager 350 GAN amp so if he is enthusiastic about the GAN1 I want to check it out. The idea of less wires and boxes does make for a compelling argument.

@ricevs If you need a GAN1 unit to mod get in touch with me in January. I will send my unit up to you and you can figure it out.

@ricevs i ordered a peachtree.  Looking forward to comparing it to some different gear.  

@ricevs 

The Peachtree unit has no usb input? No go for many of us with high quality USB streamers. Major oversight.

Do not ever trust the word of someone you do not know personally....including me. Please read the GaN 1 thread for the 7 current reviews of the amp and you will see this exploding soon. The only hands on that is important is your hand......Try one....then you will know. There will be more manufacturers in the next year using these EAS (Elegant Audio Solutions) boards, I will be modding the boards for people and other manufacturers will start to develop their own digital amps. We have only just begun.  But if the $1400 GaN1 beats the Holo May KTE, Holo Preamp and Kinki Labs B7s with $1K worth of interconnects ($15K) then imagine a tweaked board or an even better board down the line using super power supplies, etc.......Fun times ahead.

@ricevs 

I share your enthusiasm for the GAN 1, however I'm wondering if you have actually ordered one or have otherwise had hands-on with a unit. Would prefer real world experience rather then speculation.

@ricevs

Why not list your system in Audiogon virtual system page..it is likely to inspire more folks. Pics along with description is typically more helpful to understand one’s vision  backed by ownership on a world class best sounding system for pennies on the dollar.

@milpai

Apparently you are new to Rics musings. Believe me, he knows his audio!!! I have his EVS 1200 and love it even more now that I have completely replaced all my really good($$$$) cables with mostly Ali-Express Odin 2 coax, XLR, and speaker cables (incredible bargains at entry level cable prices) and, took all my kit out of a vertical Solid Steel rack, even though each shelf had maple shelves. My Audiolab 6000CDT and Audio Alchemy DDP-1 (dac/pre) + PS 5 outboard power supply now resting on a DIY maple table top that I scored locally < $200. Dimensions 5 x 2 x 2"!

hth

@agisthos I hear good things about T+A.  Supposed to be a first rate unit.  The fact you have a dealer who has both will make it easier.  One thing I will say, you need to get a signal to the DAC.  T+A is supposed to be best with USB.  Weiss, the onboard renderer is amazing and I would recommend connecting to it via ethernet.  Rockna is best via I2S.  So depending on your source...could indicate which is the best solution.  

About 8-10k USD is the limit for what I could spend on a single component so this thread is much more useful than those talking about 3 box DCS setups.

I already have a very good amp (Steve Keiser Luminance KST-150) and don’t want another pre amp box, so the choices get narrower for a DAC with decent volume control.

So far the Weiss DAC501 and Rockna Wavedream SE looks like good options, and there is a dealer here in OZ that has both of them. And this T&A DAC 200 looks very good as well. As someone else here said, had never considered that brand before.

I do have an agenda. I want everyone to be happy and have the best stereo they can at the cheapest price. I have enthusiasm......comes for the greek....meaning:

"be inspired or possessed by a god"

God animates us.....wants us to live our life with joy and love and serve one another......with PASSION.

Digital amplification plus digital crossovers plus off the grid power plus plus make your own speakers are the new paradigm....believe it or not.

I am writing the webpage on all this right this minute.....stay tuned. I will be sharing this with the whole world......this is a game changer.......incredible sound for very little money....bye bye expensive high end.....welcome to the new world.....Dealers and most manufacturers and most people will find this very, very unsettling.....How can a dealer sell you a 200lb. $100K amplifier if you can do better for a few thousand dollars? I will be sending my webpage to manufacturers all over the world.....the revolution has begun....but it will take at least 5 years for most of the people to catch on as most are other directed and not creative and most are addicted to whatever they think is best or just bought........most people are slow to change. However, those who can see what is really going on will adopt this pretty quickly as they know this "new stuff" will give the most goosebumps. NO BREATHING ALLOWED HERE!!!!!!!

What if you removed the xover from your Proac speakers and biamped using two GaN 1 amps with the $600 minidsp digital xover?!?.....OMG.....it would blow your mind!!!

@ricevs

You need to take it easy man. I am now starting to suspect if you have an agenda. Maybe not. But same thing again and again over an amp sounds suspicious. At the same time, I wonder if you are even take a breath while creating a post!

@agisthos The Weiss is a bit more expensive than $7K.  You can find a used 501/502 comfortably in this range.  It is a great unit and the preamp stage is very good. 

You have the secondary concern about system matching though.  The Weiss is superb but a hair forward of neutral.  I would never say that that is the right unit for you without knowing more about your system  The new MK2/4Ch version is about $2K more.  There will be an upgrade available to the new board sometime in the new year.  

The best preamp stage in the price class (or very close) IMO would be the Rockna Wavedream Edition SE at $7200 and that unit is dead neutral and the preamp stage is better than most.  If you don't need XLR connections, the SE versions of these DACs are jaw droppingly good for the money.

In the similar price class to the Weiss MK2 4Ch, the AGD Adante which is a full preamp with R2R DAC inside and is Roon ready.  This has a distinct advantage over many of these units as it is a true preamp that has a DAC module in it. 

@verdantaudio If someone needs a preamp/dac in one box at this price bracket (but does not require analog inputs) what do you suggest? The Weiss 501/502 was the one I was aiming for, and there is a new version out now apparently.

@ricevs

This very exciting, but doesn’t this require replacing transports with ripping/streaming devices, which then requires a laptop/tablet...?

It seems this old dog needs to learn some new tricks

STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You no longer need a DAC....the best DAC is NO DAC. Please read the Peachtree Gan 1 beta thread on the amplifier board. A guy had a Holo May KTE and a Holo Serene preamp and the Kinki labs B7 monos with great cables in between ($15K system) and the $1400 Peachtree GaN1 sounds way better......no DAC, no Preamp, no normal amp, no analog interconnects, no transistors, no tubes, no resistors, no capacitors, no feedback, no opamps....no nothing....just great sound.......the amp is the DAC. Very similar to what Technics and Lyngdorf are doing.....but cheaper and probably way better using GaNs on the output.....available now. I will be writing a webpage about this whole revolution and will have a link to it by the end of the week......Do not buy a DAC....simply a waste of money. The revolution has started....you can bi and tri amp with these amps and use a digital xover and drive your speaker drivers directly from the amp.......this is mind blowing.

Merason DAC1 connects you to music. It’s just remarkable and oh so musical.

I still find myself shaking my head in disbelief.

@w123ale You just described the Merason DAC1 to a "T".  I had the Bricasti M3 in for a few days and with my set-up (Fleetwood Devilles, McGary Integrated, Backert Labs Pre) the Merason was the better fit.

Hey @patrickdowns - Perhaps this is a convo that is better suited through PM or call, so I’ll follow up to get in touch. That said, I’ll also answer your inquiry for anyone else interested on the thread.

The T+A DAC has a very good preamp section for its price point compared to other DACs that are in its price range (e.g. much better than the PS Audio DirectStream DAC’s preamp section is, or even the Mola Mola Tambaqui’s volume control direct to amp, for instance). The one caveat I would share is that in my personal experience, T+A’s preamps are very linear - it is not the component where one will enjoy added bloom or harmonics. This is true even with their HV series, where more of the harmonics come from the DAC and A 3000 HV amps. The HV preamp is exceptional in its own way for delivering sonics, and though it is not colored, but it does have exceptional harmonics. If I were to compare the HV preamp, it would be a step above the ARC REF 6 SE, but in the same sonic character. The same is true for the 200 series, where the DAC stage has more of the harmonics, the preamp within the DAC 200 is linear, and if paired with the A 200 amp, the amp is also very, very linear (despite the amp having a warmer setting by adjusting the damping factor).

What does this mean? If you are wanting to run a digital-only system, you should have no issues using the DAC 200 going straight into an amplifier. If you have an analog source going into it, however, you will want to ensure that the sonics are to your liking, as it will not add the color or harmonics a tube preamp will. But I have no hesitation to use the DAC 200 as a preamp straight to amp for many systems and have typically had this concern/challenge with just about any other DAC I've used to go straight into an amp. The DAC 200 has a true preamp stage.

Hope this helps!

Dear blisshifi

The T+A 200 DAC is one that I am seriously interested in, but only if I can use it as a DAC/preamp. I would run it straight to my power amp. 
CAN YOU tell me about the preamp section, and how good it is for use like that? I had been interested in the Meitner MA3 DAC, which has volume control, and though it is said to be excellent, I want something with a headphone stage (which T+A200 has ... yay!) and a true preamp section.

• The alternative and my still #1 choice for a preamp is the LTA MZ preamp (tube) combined with a DAC (not sure which one).

THANKS!

I am using Holo May, when I want to use it simply, I use USB input, the sound is already quite good.
When I want to hear better sound than USB input, I use Hydra HUB as DDC and transmit I2S signal to May.
(It can be fully compatible with the I2S pin between May and Hydra HUB)
I think May is a very good DAC with enough potential to make it sound better.
I must say here that being able to use I2S is a huge benefit, actually tested it does bring better sound than other type of inputs.

@jon2020 ,

I did that review and it sounds like the Audio-GD is a great value. Wonder if anyone has heard that DAC. The reviewer was raving so much about it. But again - I do not know the relationship between the distributor and the rag. It might be a genuine opinion, but of late I have been looking at everything very cautiously.

@w123ale Some words of caution.

Ask yourself: do DAC designers build DACs with the express purpose to deliver small soundstages, poor dynamics, and high glare?

The divergent results you’ve shared suggest you pull up and reflect on your entire system and the elements that may be behind what you are reporting.

It’s understandable and reasonable to want a unit of one to solve our ’problems’ or deliver what we want. You’ll get much further by addressing the larger picture.

Wishing you success.

Any recommendations for a DAC with a big soundstage, good dynamics, but low on glare? I have a Mc DAC that has the first two of my requirements but can have an edge and glare. Just trying out a PS Audio Directstream, which I’m returning because it is too closed and lacks dynamics—no glare at all though.

@rsf507 I have not! I’ll check it out. Thanks.

@w123ale have you heard a Bricasti M3 yet? Checks all my boxes.

@chilehed 

Its been a while since I changed the ENO and SOtm cables.  My recollection is better noise reduction effects like less congestion, better details, better separation of instruments and notes.

Kind of more of what you get when you add the ENO vs a non filtered LAN cable.

Any recommendations for a DAC with a big soundstage, good dynamics, but low on glare? I have a Mc DAC that has the first two of my requirements but can have an edge and glare. Just trying out a PS Audio Directstream, which I’m returning because it is too closed and lacks dynamics—no glare at all though.

the Weiss 501 looks intriguing.

chilehed   Thanks.  I did contact Lampizator but they are not currently offering I2S input options.  Their answer:  "Problem with i2s is there's no universal standard. So unless we know the specs you're trying to match, it won't be compatible."  Which, unfortunately, is true.  The only sure compatibility is if, like in the case of Denafrips, the I2S is used within the same brand.  The general opinion is that any additional processing to try and improve upon declocking / reclocking is probably redundant at best.  Some who have tried testing it on higher-end equipment have discarded outside declocking altogether.

@anzaanimalclinic, thanks for that info, and yes, would like to know more about the audible difference between SOtM and ENO. To complicate things even further I noticed NA has a newer product called "muon".

@gregjacob, my B3 got me to the point where I am much more focused on listening to music rather than upgrading. When it came to the Phoenix, it became expendable. I'm hoping your A3 delivers the same (and more) for you.

I requested it from Lampizator and they said that the units no longer come with custom input options. They come standard with 4 inputs. No I2S option. 

For a read out of curiosity, the Stereophile review of the Audio-GD is now out on their website. Provides insights on other dac’s.

gregjacob

If the Atlantic hasn't shipped yet have Lampizator put in an I2s input.  I have a Golden Gate 2 that they pit in the I2s and it beats the other inputs by a good amount.

chilehed  Thanks for your input on this. I do have the ENO filter connected from ethernet line to Zenith.  I have it direct-connected to a LAN wall slot fed from router in different room,no network switch, just direct connected.  Like you found the Phoenix USB unnecessary, I will probably find the Iris DDC no longer needed as the cleaned up signal has gone through the ENO filter, the music server and the all the clock checking inside the Lampi.  I'll try the Iris just for fun.

anzaanimalclinic  Did you find a genuine sound difference / major improvement between the ENO filter and the SOtM dCBL-CAT7u?  It's a pretty serious layout to switch the former for the latter...

@chilehed 

I had a NA ENO Ag filter on the input of my Statement and it was an improvement on whatever I had been using.  I now use a SOtM dCBL-CAT7u.  In my system it was an improvement on the NA ENO Ag.  I moved the NA to my NAS an Antipodes CORE.

When I bought my B3 I had a Phoenix USB connected with AQ diamond USBs but decided to sell it soon after. Of course everyone's setup is different but I got much more improvement by adding an NA ENO filter with a router on the input side of my Zenith. YMMV.

I'm having a Lampizator Atlantic 3 made and shipped to me right now.  I have the Innuous Zenith Mk3 as music server and still have a Denafrips Iris DDC that I've been using with a Denafrips Pontus II (that I will be selling once the Lampi arrives).  I haven't seen or read of anyone who has connected a Denafrips DDC model to a Lampizator and given a "before and after" review.  So I'll be using a Callisto USB from Zenith to Iris then a AES/EBU connection from Iris to Lampi.  Cannot use the I2S connection with Lampi.  I'd be curious to know if anyone has put a declocker (of any type) in front of a Lampi.  Before trying, I'm wondering if it's overkill.  I can say that the Iris DDC made a significant audible difference with the Pontus II.

@skinzy 

If you haven't, try the Gaia with the Phoenix on your main system with I2S it is better than USB.  If you use the clock out with the Gaia and TPlus it is even better.

I have a Statement, Iris and TPlus.  The quality of the HDMI, USB and clock cables is important.

maybe the title could be what streamers or amps have the smoothest sound.

For those interested in the Denafrips Terminators, they recently released 12th Anniversary Editions of the II and Plus which replace previous versions.  https://www.vinshineaudio.com/12th

I prefer NOS as it results in a more Detail sound in my system.  I have tried both OS modes. 

@skinzy I've been wanting to try the Terminator II with Gaia DDC, since I currently have the Gaia. Do you prefer to OS or NOS mode?

• I own a Terminator Plus which I use in my main system. Its feed by an Innuos Zenith Mk3 and a Phoenix USB. Love the result. I bought a Terminator 2 for my second system with a Gaia DDC. Fabulous results. Have not heard the other DACS.

I now have a Pontus . I don’t like any upsampling DACs. They all sound brittle to me. I hear good things about the Sonnet Passithea. I will try it soon.

@lucmichaud1 I have the Sonnet Morpheus and it’s excellent, so I’m sure the Pasithea even better

@gregjacob @juanmanuelfangioii @willywonka  The Audio-GD review is in stereophile Nov 2022 print/digital edition magazine, page 25

Should I be convinced that the PS Audio DSD DAC (with latest software) and Network Bridge II is out there which notably superior to what I own? With an AQ Vodka Ethernet cable, it is all dead silent and audibly serendipitous. Am I to upgrade a DAC and separate streamer, or is there a superior DAC + streamer $7K or less. Neal

I have the audio gd r 7 mark 2 without lower regeneration.  Have a la audio already. 9 months plug and play listening. Herb Reinhardt review was overdone with optical metaphors, but in the end, he has the correct point is that you have digital clarity and range of digital, yet the sonic qualities vinyl keeps you off Netflix and audio forums, irony appreciated

Dodge 7 DAC is amazing, Better than Berkley Audio, DAC 1, Dave, Hegel, Vega G2.1........you can't go wrong.

No up sampling LessLoss or Border Patrol  both OS R2R 

That is not factual. 

 None.

Happy Listening!

Yes thanks @lucmichaud1 for the info…..most helpful.