Awaiting a 1st impression

PL is fine Gear as is MW and others.

Yeah Geezers! A group I feel lucky to be a member of.

ghdprentice -  You  may be the youngest, but you still qualify for my hi-fi club ... "Geezers High for Fi".

high end = esoteric = intended for the discerning FEW

I know Jim at Aesthetix and have run his superb Pandora DAC for a decade…excellent service, support, build quality and sonics. I have heard 3 Mimas now, all running Vandy Treo or Quattro….a superb high end value….

:-) enjoy the music

@harrylavo 

I guess I am a youngster… 69 for a few more months. But I completely agree. I still read The Absolute Sound, Stereophile and HiFi+. I have tried a few boutique pieces along the way… but found while they may have some appealing characteristics overall well established high end companies fill in all positive aspects and, they are still there when you turn around.

Without multiple professional reviews with reviewers that have deep experience across the high end spectrum it is too easy to get glowing shallow reviews which do not really reflect a wholistic assessment of the product.
 

 I am fortunate to own some very good equipment from established long term providers. The equipment continually reveals strengths I was not even aware of when I bought the stuff. They are like fine instruments allowing you to listen more deeply and experience more emotionally the music than I would have thought possible. And good high end gear remains relevant and rewarding for exceedingly long periods of time like 10 - 20 years. So that “ridiculous” amount of money you spent becomes really well spent and a good bargain when amortized.

"Congrats on your PL"

kennyc- who purchased a PL EVO 300 hybrid? Wish it were me. I have a 6 year old PL HP.

harrylavo- your insight is spot on.

Several comments on Boostedis's point.  I am an 82yo audiophile who has closely followed the industry since I was a 15yo kit-builder.  

Comment #1:  Unless you are actively into today's market online, much of the self-selecting advertising is not going to reach you.

Comment #2:  The industry was built on publications that together reviewed a LOT of gear, and the magazines carried dealer ads and usually had a few dedicated pages so that small manufacturers could still advertise.  I know the web equivalent exists but from what I have observed, neither the quality of reviewing nor the quality of advertising measures up.

Comment #3:  On the other side of the coin: boutique audio manufacturers are a bit like new restaurant owners .... they never consider that spending a considerable amount on advertising to let people know about you or where you are or how to get you.  Such spending is as much a successful "investment" (not "spending") as putting in machinery or kitchen fixtures.  In the old days, technical reviews (Audio, High Fidelity, Hi-Fi and Stereo Review, etc. all carried many, many reviews that at least let you have some idea of where they stood .... nowadays, everything is the latest and greatest.  No reviews nor most advertising nor the few dealers that still exist talk realistically about where the equipment really honestly fits/stands in the food chain.

I know, I know.  Curmudgeon!!  Guilty, but unrepentent.

Congrats on your PL.  Established company, quality parts, excellent long term track  record, it’s a solid investment.  

."If US brands want people to not buy MIC, they will have to be price competitive"

boosteddis- 

I think everyone would like to see that happen. 

REALITY- you maybe would have a nice looking case full of air, an that's about it.

The  Aesthetix may or may not sound "better" but if it had the EXACT build as the PL, it would be bit more than it's already hefty price.

but I am reasonably familiar with the main-stream brands,

Of course you are. And you made my point. We are talking about a cottage industry here. Why don't you tell me what your suggestion would be for these high end companies when it comes to advertisement? I'm sure most of them advertise in the few audio rags that are left. How would you advise these companies to make buyers "aware"?

@ozzy62 It goes to show that the interweb isn't the end all be all for communication! I'm 57yo and have been into highend gear since my early teens! I am however, new to (owning) tube gear, but I am reasonably familiar with the main-stream brands, which is my point that you missed (again). I'm not suggesting that this Aesthetix brand should be as well known as Bose, et al, but again, I wasn't aware of Willsenton either which is my point. If US brands want people to not buy MIC, they will have to be price competitive and make US buyers aware of their products (which I would buy even if they cost a little more, but not double!). 

I would at least investigate what spare parts are available if it needs service and get a feel for how long they’ll stock them for. You don’t want to end up with a doorstop down the road.

@boostedis 

No you missed the point. You expect the general public to know esoteric audio companies by name like they recognize Sony or Bose. It ain’t gonna happen. Maybe you are a newb, that’s the only way to explain your dismay. But you’ll get the hang of it. Like I said, most people around here recognize companies that Joe Sixpack won’t. Doesn’t mean they aren’t doing what it takes to stay in business. You just won’t see em advertising in People or House and Garden.

Here’s the question. Do Primalunas hold their resale above, below or at average?

I would have a very hard time spending $7k for a Primaluna product. 

@ozzy62 As usual, people don't read for content. The whole point I was making is that I haven't heard of them. I hadn't heard of the Amp I purchased until good marketing presented it to me. My point is that if American companies want to get noticed so people will buy their products, they need to do better marketing and stop resting on the laurels of good sound alone! They pretty much all sound good. They are all point to point wiring with good components, etc., etc.... 

Who gets the prize for build quality appearance?

I, for one, have never liked the look of PL gear. That more than the MIC aspect has kept me from ever trying any of their stuff.

@boostedis 

If you haven't heard of Aesthetix gear, it's more your fault than theirs. Most people who have been at this awhile certainly know who they are.

In their adverts Upscale makes a point of how much their preamps weigh as compared to the competition.  I've heard of judging by the measurements, but even ASR doesn't say that heavier units are intrinsically better.

@boostedis Aesthetix is an established brand and has been in business since early 2000s. I have Rhea phono in my system. Their customer service is second to none. I had an issue with my unit so I emailed them on a Friday afternoon and I got a call back from Jim White the same evening and he spent almost an hour helping me troubleshoot the issue. An arrogant company? Definitely not.

I have heard their Mimas (Hybrid Integrated) driving Rockport Aviors. The sound was mighty impressive. I've heard older version of PL (the Dialog and Dialog-HP) driving big Harbeth monitors( not sure of the model though), not in the same league as Mimas but again have not heard the new PL offerings.

I'm not familiar with Aesthetix as a brand. I wasn't a Tube guy until the Willsenton R8 was getting great reviews and LOTS of press from reviewers all over the world! There are many 'business' mistakes that US based brands make and one of them is branding and another is marketing! If Aesthetix is so arrogant that they feel like I should seek out their product rather than them doing their homework and trying to reach me, then they will continue to be an obscure brand that very few know anything about.....

Aesthetix base price $7000 remote $400(backlit-cool) headphone $500=$7900

Rated 150WPC  

PL $7300 including metal remote and headphone 

Rated 100 WPC 

$600 for 50 additional watts of power with the Aesthetix, and the USA pedigree.

This would be an interesting drag race.

Who gets the prize for build quality appearance? PL's construction at least appears to best the Aesthetix.

I do like the Mimas aesthetic(except the choice of the 80's blue LED-very tired)more than the PL. I would have chosen vacuum tube orange.

Unless it sounds like crap, it should sell very well. You get the warmth of tubes and the power of SS. Another benefit is the preamp tubes will probably last 10,000+ hours.  I to will be interested in hearing the reviews.

JD

I agree Aesthetix without reservation. Plus Jim White doesnt bug the crap out of me like KD does. In fact Jim is a great guy. 

It kind of boils down to this: for a very similar price, would I buy a PL or an Aesthetix Mimas (also tube hybrid integrated)?  The answer is clear: Aesthetix.

I remember back in the 1900’s when the people were so dumb as to actually dislike and not support those countries who were carrying out genocide and had a record of barbaric human rights violations. Its so nice that this woke generation has come to understand, what Uncle Joe has said in that they just have a different set of values..
Kinda like the enlightened villager who sees his brother taken captive and eaten by his neighboring cannibal tribe. But he knows the tribe makes drums which can use for the tribal dances at a cheap price . And so he waits til they have finished their meal and goes to buy one of their drums. Of course he must make sure the tribe is well fed before he goes to make the transaction or else, HE may be next on the menu.
Then along come this entrepreneur type who understood the danger and decided he would make some $$$. He would buy several drums at a time and sell them to the locals for a profit. Of course because he bought in quantity, he got a discount. But there was a catch. He had to look the other way and say nice things about the cannibal tribe when they grabbed one of his neighbors for lunch. And the villagers didn’t mind because they were getting cheap drums...well, until it was their close relatives.
As for PrimaLuna, I was going to buy one. I suspect it is a decent product. If their execution of electronic components is as good as their making a virus then I’m sure it is top tier. The virus sure did its job well.

Good R&B song for your listening pleasure

You made in China complainers saying the same over and over is getting very old. PL is excellent gear and at its price, most likely is a lot of quality for the money.  

@boostedis 

To those bashing MIC, there are manufacturing techniques that can only be done in China because the US (and others) don't possess the technique!

There are a lot of speakers that need more than most, this seems to be a compact solution for them, I hope it sounds great as expected.

IF I bought difficult speakers (I never will), I would prefer a separate tube preamp, probably vintage overhauled, into a SS amp, vintage or modern.

That Phono module, it ain’t tubes either, I agree with the review linked, skip it, use your own separate. Another reason I prefer vintage tube preamp with MM phono, just use a SUT for MC to keep on using the sound of the preamp's phono

Why did I watch this video? Just another salesman touting his product. Why bite on this and not any other video provided by a manufacturer or dealer?

I learned at work that quality means the least acceptable quality that meets your customer's needs. You aren't building a Rolls Royce, you are building a Toyota Corolla. The Chinese are getting better at finding that sweet spot. There are more Chinese goods in our future, not less. 

"Please not another boutique killer!"

audio_audio-

give it time, more "professional reviews" will surface with all the cliché descriptors

I'm sure there are some here  who can remember there was a  period of time products  that had the label "made in Japan" was frowned upon.

Now anything made in Japan is perceived as high quality-which for the most part, is.

I don't know if the MIC label can completely overcome the stigma as Japan, but  SOME audio gear that is overseen by US or European ownership is capable as any US or top European brand.

Someone buy one, and do a write up!

It’s a global world & there a probably many examples of good & not so good ( at least in value) audio products from just about every country. Long term reliability & accompanying manufacturer support generally seems to be what separates the best brands from the rest which has real importance to me. I can’t be bothered with hassling & waiting for responses & repairs as I work too much & to hard to need any more stress in my life. I listen to music in part to de- stress. 
 

That said, I enjoy eating mostly ethnic foods, especially Asian food & listen to nice music through fine US made audio components that give me lots of pleasure with very little trouble. I do enjoy a nice espresso made by my beautiful Italian machine. It’s a big world. 

To those bashing MIC, there are manufacturing techniques that can only be done in China because the US (and others) don't possess the technique! So MIC can and does mean high quality and precision. The days of cheap Chinese goods are essentially over. Can you find cheaply made Chinese goods, sure and absolutely, but can you find well crafted and designed products (especially in the highend electronics world) absolutely!!

It seems Primaluna is stretching out of the value brand and into the upper echelons of price. I'd love to hear one, but a lot can be had for $7300. Wished they would have made a power amp. 

I harbor no animosity toward against Chinese goods, but my day starts off a little differently. First, two cups of coffee dispensed from my Jura (Swiss) into a souvenir mug from a the 2001 Catalina Island jazz festival (US-made). If I ate breakfast, which I don't, the omelet  would be served on a Noritake plate (Japan) and consumed with Sambonet flatware (Italy). My buying decisions just worked out this way.

By the same token, if I listened to some music with the breakfast I don't eat, there would be some Chinese equipment in the signal path.

Please not another boutique killer!

"That’s a LOT of money …. Personally I would never spend that kind of cash on a Chinese amp."

oddiofyl-I guess current state of affairs-EVERYTHING with a price, has gone up. Perhaps this is part of the reason for that $7300 MSRP.? The made in China(MIC) factor isn't a concern for me. A huge portion in a typical consumers everyday life is just that-MIC. Like it or not.

Your day starts off with that morning coffee in a MIC mug, along with MIC plate/silverware for your omelet.

If this follows the path of the tube amps, it will be competitive in sales of  upper end SS integrated amps. 

A head to head against a few of the popular brands will be a very interesting read.

That’s a LOT of money …. Personally I would never spend that kind of cash on a Chinese amp.    I auditioned two different pair of speakers on PL  tube integrated amps and I have to say they sounded good. You can buy some very fine separates for that or maybe a little more .  Or a bespoke boutique amp .  I would actually look at ModWright  or forget the hybrid and get a Coda or Accuphase for that kind of $$$