@unreceivedogma Wrote:
This is obvious trolling. Provocation, not elucidation. Doesn’t deserve a response guys. Pull this post down.
Yes, pull the post down!
Mike
Audiophiles on Audiogon.
During my time here, I have found some of you to be too opinionated - like your life depends upon what you think about audio gear. Holding on to one’s beliefs a bit too tightly is bad for the soul.
I was reading some content on the Ken Rockwell website, and then found an article entitled: "What is an audiophile?"
in the article, Ken says: Audiophiles are non-technical, non-musical kooks who imagine the darnedestly stupid things about audio equipment. Audiophiles are fun to watch; they’re just as confused at how audio equipment or music really works as primitive men like cargo cults are about airplanes.
Given my time on this forum and a few others, I have found his statements to be true. I mean, if you have an amplifier that costs say, $10,000, and you buy cables for $20,000, is that really going to improve the sound? (make the stereo image more accurate)
Or on the otherside, if you buy an amplifier for $1000 and then go buy the top of the line audioquest cables costing tens of thousands of dollars, then would the sound improve accordingly? After reading some of their literature, I cannot be sure they have an understanding of how electricrity works, much less the intricate details involving high-end audio systems.
And then we have power conditioning to consider. I have done extensive research online and it turns out that if your gear is really "high-end" it should already have a device inside that filters the incoming AC. Therefore, do you really need a power conditioner?
I learned about PS Audio products being spec-ed much higher than their measured performance. This is also true of the audio "power plants" that cost thousands of dollars. No really, tons of money to "regenerate" power with little to no sonic benefits.
Would love to hear what you guys think about these findings.
Oh, and high-end DACs?
This thing will outperform all your fancy gear.
121 responses Add your response
Like many here. I scan posts to see if helpful ideas or products have escaped my notice. Often I've gleaned some tip from reading another's experience with some equipment. Like the question: Are my speakers 'in phase'? Not everyone instantly knows why that matters until they either hear the difference or learn about it somewhere. People new to these music reproduction devices may be looking into this forum to avoid making stupid mistakes in ways that others may consider ignorant. We may admit, It is ignorance. Simple ignorance in a subject you are not familiar with is no shame. I began as a rookie stereo salesman in 1977. I enrolled in an online course and became a 'certified audio consultant'! It was like a "Stereo for Dummies" 101 college course. But I was a dummy. Over 40 years later, I still am learning more about our hobby of music reproduction. This forum has made my love of music more enjoyable than ever. Keep sharing! |
@jackhifiguy pretty much calls everyone here stupid and then asks for feedback from the very same. I guess I must be stupid because I’m struggling to figure out how that works.
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@fertguy what happened to Miller Carbon? |
In my last post I was being pretentious,not necessarily agreeing with the op but trying to show that audiophiles need to get a sense of humor. Its known fact that most audiophiles are good people only a small segment can ruin it for others. So just cause you don't agree here we thus have this forum. |
You nailed it!
For some reason, the dude thinks he’s fooling everyone. He is not. Unless of course, he is fully aware and still does it. Any “poor soul” he can “save”… |
Perhaps your comment @russ69 is because I repeatedly pointed out incorrect information in the topic you started? I am not an expert but technical enough that what you posted seemed unlikely and was easily researched as incorrect. If that makes me a troll what does that make the real experts? |
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at any given time, there are a handful usernames, like the op, and another, deludedxxx.... it is all about chain-jerking - the names change, as these sad people get kicked off, stay silent for a couple weeks, then come back under a new alias... they are the human equivalent of malware a key to getting something positive out of this site is to recognize which users, which threads they populate, are just about this... let's all please remember the truism for productive internet board participation -- ’no energy for the trolls’ |
So true.... For me the only ABSOLUTE improvements, when we own a relatively good basic audio system already will come from acoustic/psycho-acoustic improvement in the room... Upgrade is often a mirror of our acoustic ignorance ...And we call the change and the difference our "taste" and an improvement .... It is not always the case at all... There is no "taste" in acoustic, only our particular ears structure and history...Acoustic science is related to many concepts which can de defined objectively and experimented with in a subjective manner... In this experimental correlation between objective and subjective factors in a small room, It is less "taste" that exist, but more a tuning optimization for a specific pair of ears and system and by them... |
I firmly believe in balanced connections and balanced opinions. Tweakers need to expect to be scientifically challenged, and ASR followers need to be open enough to discoveries for which the science may not be immediately evident. Obviously, ultimately, there has to be a scientific explanation for everything, but let's not forget about what happens after the waves hit the eardrum. My take after decades of swapping out gear frequently is that you can get a variety of differences but they are not necessarily improvements...just enough so that each person can pursue their personal tastes, and of course audiophiles, as hobbyists, will take that to an extreme (like stamp collectors...they don't need the stamps to mail anything...its a hobby). Where audiophiles may not be self-aware enough is when they consider something "better" rather than "different."
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@wyoboy So glad someone actually looked at the video. Hope it helps. I read somewhere that wine pairs pretty well with music. |
I mean, really. Attacking people for spending $1,000,000 on component interconnects while Ukrainian families are being brutally murdered by the tens of thousands is an easy mark, and he can’t even get that right, even though people here provide him with spectacular examples of the craft and do it repeatedly, including yours truly. His remarks are off kilter, cognitively and tonality-wise. It’s as if Vladimir Putin tried to do a critique of The Simpsons as being a conveyor of hegemonic imperialist ideology. I doubt this dude is an audiophile. He probably listens to a 6-transistor radio in his mom’s basement. Audiophiles deserve attacks. But please, if you are going to take a whack at it, don’t insult our intelligence, Do it with wit, insight, grace and intelligence (that is, follow the WIGI Rule). Speaking of wit, if not intelligence: whatever happened to the Einstein guy? I haven’t seen him in these parts in a while, but maybe it’s me. theaudioatticvinylsundays.com |
That Dac doesn’t even outperform OKTO DA8 if Signal to Noise measurements were your criteria Measurements matter only if you measure the stuff that matters. There are a lot of people who have actually listened to Hi End DACs and can tell you that while I’m sure the DAC sounds fine outperforms "musically" is laughable. |
@waytoomuchstuff --that video clip was right on point and helped me explain my audio obsession to my wife who is a wine nut. @jackhifiguy Whether or not you are a troll, someone pointed out that you haven't really been here long enough to make judgements---there are all flavors here and plenty of them are audio engineers, physicists and other technical people who know what they're talking about--thus contradicting the "non-technical" definition because all of them are audiophiles. I second the poster who said keep your fingers off the keyboard and just read (for perhaps a year or so) and you'll learn who to listen to and who can be ignored--that is, if your intentions are honorable. |
@jackhifiguy - you are correct. A 20k cable will likely not improve the stereo separation. We’re done here. We can all shut everything down and go to bed. |
Citing ASR as a resource is a bit of a joke. The site consists of the minion master, who was a project manager for Microsoft, and a lot of minions. One or two of the minions know something, most do not but believe in a hive mentality. They refuse to listen or accept anyone who has a different opinion. Your comment about the Dac is really silly .Have you listened to many Dacs? Have you listened to R2R dacs which are decried by the ASR minions? One of the Manufactureres that the ASR guys worship like an idol is the Topping group. I find the mid range rather shrill, and am not the only one to do so. As far as cables are concerned, if anyone wants to spend mega money on cabling, it is not my business, it is theirs.
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An Audiophile is someone that appreciates music, how it was recorded, the type of equipment that reproduces the recording. You are allowed to purchase inexpensive and price is no object gear. An audiophile enjoys a place they can share knowledge and opinions. The real bonus is when you go to a site like Audiogon and benefit from the knowledge of other Audiophiles that contribute to the forum with past experience and a passion for what will come next. With this in mind you identify the trolls and move on. |
The point here is that the more you know about the music and the equipment that brings that music to your living room, the more you'll appreciate all things connected to it. We (audiophiles) have all had our moments, whether incremental or an event with the impact of a sledgehammer where we "got it" and something touched us emotionally, intellectually, or both. Sorry, there are no shortcuts here. If you want to "get" inside the head of an audiophile it will take a considerable commitment to knowing a great deal about the music itself, it's history and those who make it possible to reproduce the energy and presence of musicians (some deceased) in your living room. Yes, there's the many (MANY) hours of equipment auditions in your home, including items that may not readily pass the "logic" test of mainstream audio technology, or the price of admission reaches into the stratosphere. You may just discover that your knowledge base was not quite as complete as you thought it was. If you decide to get off a couple of exits before this level, feel free to do so. Enjoy your music (and equipment) at any level you choose. Just give us "audiophiles" permission to go about the business of loving our music, equipment and exploring the nearly infinite number of possibilities. |
Stop making stuff up. There are always kooks. I have never met an audiophile with cables costing far more than their equipment. I cannot discount there arent any, but I've never met them so I can safely say, they are few and far between. If youre talking about thousands of dollars of cable for a system thats tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, then the cables are a rounding error. I like good magwheels too, they dont really do anything for how I drive, I buy them anyway. People get so hung up about others. Focus on yourself and enjoy the music. |
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Some “audiophiles” are technical to various degrees which can help a lot but it is certainly not required. Hifis are all about technology. The most successful audiophiles tend to value and grasp technology correctly I find. They tend to make well informed buying decisions, set things up well, and get across the finish line the fastest.
You can “just trust your ears” and that may work out just fine eventually (or not) but you still have to make well informed buying decisions and set things up well for finicky ears to be happy. |
