Audio Grade Ethernet Cable

It's always puzzled me why so many users cram their modems, routers, switchers, and various digital peripherals close to their system, then jump through multiple hoops to rid themselves of the noise that results. It's much easier to locate that gear distant from the system, and connect to it with only an ethernet (inherently balanced!) or fiber cable.

@cleeds,

+1

OP, it's good you asked. I could see how one might think that. But this is different. 

You want to move your digital gear like switches away from your auto system. They are terribly noisy. Anything with a wall wart or extra box on a string should be far away. 

Optimizing sound of streaming... stored files and streaming service is easiest accomplished with a very high quality steamer. It will isolate noise carried in and cache the bits and give you audiophile quality sound. 

@cleeds Didn't know that thank you.

@ghdprentice I have the wall wart for the modem and the router LPS cable plugged into a passive line conditioner but it's close to the stereo. I'll try running those to a bare receptacle on the other side of the room. The modem/router are currently 10 feet from the streamer. I'll see if I can move it further.

My local files sound great which is why I've been investing in downloads. From what others have posted on Audiogon, the Bryston BDP 3 is a very good sounding transport. There were complaints about the software which is why those Goners purchased different streamers (which Bryston is in. the process of improving).

Is this a waste of time and money?

Yes.  CAT(5, 6,......) specs are tighter than what any boutique cable builder can achieve.  Just buy good quality name brand stuff.

@kr4 Can you send me  a link? I was told to use a CAT 8 cable so I bought one, then I read that a CAT 8 cable carries too much noise. I'd at least like to have a solid understanding of the basics. Thanks!

Ten feet is probably far enough. Hopefully the wall warts are not plugged in to the same circuit as your audio stuff. I am not completely sure a line conditioner will prevent degradation of sound if they are. 

Stored files should not sound any better than streaming. If same recording, my CD = Stored files = streaming = vinyl. It is worth getting streaming = other since your library goes up to millions of albums for the price of $14 / month.

That will slowly change everything in a really good way. Not just relistinging to the same music but finding hundreds of new and great music. I seldom listen to anything that is in my 4,000 CD / Vinyl collection. And my outlays for music are a flat $14 / month. I’m retired so having all that music is incredibly wonderful. I’m listening to five Cannonball Adderly album’s I never heard before. It’s incredible. 

The opposite - you should get your router as far away as possible from your components. Routers emit noise. 
Ethernet cables make a difference. I’ve tested several and they all sounded different. I tried Supra, Supra with Telegartner connectors, LinkUp from Amazon (very decent by the way), Purist Audio and Audience (mu current cable). 

DH Labs cables are excellent value and they’re a good entry point into higher quality cables. If you want to go cheap get Linkup. 
https://a.co/d/elkT0FX

Then save up and upgrade to something in the $500-$1000 category. 
 

@ghdprentice Yes, I have Qobuz as I stream it at the gym. For whatever reason, I’m getting a lot of noise when I stream. When I play the files from my SSD, it’s very clean with a great soundstage and black background. The modem and router are just Spectrum issue. Do you think I should change out my CAT 8 with a CAT 6? I have both.

If wifi enabled router will leak rfi into closely situated equipment. If you disable wifi it's really no noisier than other digital equipment, hard drives and transformers will leak more rifi than a router with wifi disabled. I have trifield meter so I have measurements to prove it. 

@audphile1 I greatly appreciate your input and I'll look into those cables you mentioned.I never knew that some ethernet cables cost as much as $30,000.00!

@sns I didn't know I could disable WIFI from the router. Should I disable it when I listen to the stereo? I only use WIFI when I'm on my iPhone.

@ghdprentice Yeah I disconnected the modem/router from the line conditioner and found a different circuit. Thank You!

Antipodes Audio, the manufacturer of my streamer recommended I change from Cat 8 to Cat 6. When I did the difference was noticeable with more clarity and air. Well worth making the change and not expensive even for good quality Cat 6.

So, two schools of thought in regard to whether networks impact sound quality for audiophile streaming. Not here to argue this, non believers can go on using wifi. So, generally we find the following in many audiophile streaming setups, modem and router far away from audio system, long ethernet cable to network switch, this switch may be generic or audiophile switch, switch connects to streamer. Some take the audiophile switch a step further and use some sort of network filter in addition to the switch. And some go even further in using audiophile ethernet cables between switch and streamer. Many report these devices and measures effective in providing better quality streams, this adds to the empirical evidence networks do indeed impact streaming sound quality.

And so I'll use an analogy of a river when describing streaming network chain.  We have this source of pollution at the router, this in the form of rfi from wifi, and also in the form of other forms of emi. So the idea is this contaminated river water will be cleaned up via the audiophile switch, filter and or streamer. This all makes sense, and per above many report better sound quality using these conditioners/filters what have you. But what if you cut out the offending pollution at the source, this means at the modem and router. Number one benefit is you may no longer need these additional devices to clean up the pollution. I'll also posit the idea perhaps these filters/conditioners don't in fact entirely decontaminate this flow, perhaps some pollution is getting past them. And we also have to acknowledge that even with the filter/conditioner there is pollution in this river during it's journey from router to filter, perhaps this alone may have detrimental effects on sound quality. 

So how do we eliminate, or at least diminish this pollution source? We locate modem and router close to audio system, and we eliminate as much emi/rfi pollutants possible. This means both modem and router powered via lps (and how well we implement this matters), we disable wifi on router in order to eliminate contamination via rfi of both router and any closely situated streaming or audio components. Whole house wifi is provided by a second router connected to first router via long LAN/ethernet cable, quality of that cable not all that important.  Another added benefit (if you believe ethernet cable quality variable) is short cable runs now available to you, .5M is my longest ethernet cable run. Now there is new evidence out there that eliminating the router altogether via an audiophile managed switch provides even greater gains, this by eliminating needless network traffic via nearly constant pinging. Dejitter Switch X for anyone interested. I'll also add, you may still want to continue using a network filter even with the above setup, I find my JCAT netcard XE to be effective.

So, this the logic involved in providing what is known as a 'clean' network for our audiophile streaming. The whole house network or 'dirty' network is now segregated from the audio or 'clean' network. Beyond this I can only say don't assume or presume this can't provide superior streaming sound quality vs whatever setup you are running at present. Empirical evidence far more compelling, than presumptions and assumptions. Offering advice based on presumption and assumption may be doing a great disservice to the audiophile community. It took many years of trial and error to finally come to the point where streams offered equal sound quality vs ripped cd's on NAS, this particular network optimization proved to be the final equalizer. 

. 

Keep your wifi router and  network related wall warts away from your stereo! 

Cheap-o Ethernet 6 will be just fine. 

The most realistic concerns are over radiated RFI from inside the Wifi router.  It's job is literally to radiate radio frequency interference.  The other issue is wall warts.  If you must have any network related gear near your audio gear use low noise versions such as those from ifi Power.  Especially try to avoid putting a wall wart on your clean side of a power conditioner as they can re-pollute the AC. 

If you must do more then I suggest an Ethernet/fiber/Ethernet conversion.  Asus makes routers with built in fiber ports (SFP?) but you can get inexpensive converters.  Fiber is galvanically isolated, immune to RFI/EMI and lightning surges. Still use a good power supply near your streamer. 

As mentioned, you can isolate with fiber, this is very cheap, and effective. I have had good luck putting a Stack Audio Smoothlan in between the router and my streamer. 

@goofyfoot

The easiest and most reliable source for such cables is BlueJeans: https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/data-cables/index.htm

sns

... how do we eliminate, or at least diminish this pollution source? We locate modem and router close to audio system ...

How does that diminish the "pollution source?" It only puts these noisy components closer to your audio system. 

... modem and router powered via lps ... disable wifi on router in order to eliminate contamination via rfi ...

You can just as easily implement those remedies while also keeping your network components distant from your audio system.

And that’s what I don’t understand: What is the advantage of locating your network components physically close to your audio system? The only benefit I can imagine is that it reduces the length of the one ethernet or fiber cable that connects to the streamer. Please tell me what I've overlooked.

Any Ethernet cable is "audiophile grade" because they all simply transmit ones and zeros. The ones that claim to do that better are either lying or uneducated.

OP, if you follow advice to move the router far away and plug into a different circuit, I have an unused DH Labs ethernet cable which I think is 6M. Switched ISPs and the new company supplied a remote extender entering the floor under the rack holding streamer, which I plugged into line conditioner on audio circuit and switched to a shorter ethernet cable. No detectable increase in noise from prior setup. Anyhow you can have the 6M cable for the cost of shipping if you decide to go that way.

Repeating myself. How does putting modem and router close to audio system pollute if wifi disabled? Does a long ethernet cable connected to a switch or streamer magically reduce this noise? 

Now I'll agree the most optimal solution is likely an all fiber network, this requires not only the service but also fiber capable streamer. For cable service optical conversion can be a positive step, I do this myself, but this instituted specifically for my two streamer Roon setup, in other words post Roon Core streamer. 

So, going full optical requires both optical service provider and streamer with optical input. Cable service will require fiber conversion and not all conversion schemes created equal. So lets say we've done the fiber conversion for the cable service either at router or just post router, so issue of long LAN cable moot. Now we have the issue of AC supply/possible contamination of AC and wifi contamination of the optical router itself. Seems everyone agrees LPS is a good thing vs SMPS for streaming components. With modem (I also power this with lps) and router far away from audio setup I'm going to assume these will be powered via common house AC lines. Is the assumption quality of ac feeding the lps for these devices of no consequence? Can you be sure of this, or do you have evidence this is true? With my setup, modem and router, both lps connected to my power conditioner via dedicated AC lines. 

And we still have the issue of wifi contamination of the router itself and likely closely situated modem. Optical schemes aren't addressing this issue.  

My network solution can be both a tidy and 'clean' solution in that it may make fiber conversion unnecessary. Having a 'clean' or audio only network likely makes optical conversion a moot point, you've rid yourself of wif rifi contamination,  diminished self generated noise via lps, quality AC feed, add in very short runs of quality LAN cable.  And all this only requires relocation of ISP service port and a second router, such a small expenditure in order to hear for yourself the advantages of this setup.

I suppose I understand the resistance to even trying this scheme, assumptions and presumptions are inherent to our species. I can't count the number of times I've been told this and that can't possibly make a difference to sound quality, and I also can't count the number of times that's proven to be untrue. I've found that experience is the best teacher, and I'll continue to believe that. Try it you might just like it.
 

I should add the one thing I have yet to address is whether the amount of network traffic impacts streaming sound quality, my scheme doesn't address this. This is where the Dejitter Switch X managed switch comes in. With this managed switch a 'truly' segregated audio network is achieved. Switches don't have the constant pinging in order to locate devices on one's network, all this pinging migrates to the second or whole house router. There is some interesting discussion on this switch and the need for a 'clean' network over at youtube and I would expect at audiophilestyle forum.

sns

How does putting modem and router close to audio system pollute if wifi disabled?

Simple. Modems, routers, switchers are all potential sources of noise. Locating those devices distant from the audio system can reduce or eliminate that noise.

I suppose I understand the resistance to even trying this scheme, assumptions and presumptions are inherent to our species.

Asking questions and providing "resistance" are two different things. You seem unable to answer the question:

What is the advantage of locating your network components physically close to your audio system?

Please note that I understand your scheme works for you. I’m not questioning that - I'm only asking about its supposed benefits.

+1 @cleeds

There’s no case to be made for a router being co-located next to your audio gear as having any benefit compared to say 30’ away if we are talking about a wired connection.  

On the other hand, picking up noise from the internal CPU and power supply is possible. I admit to having an Ethernet switch behind my rack, but given the number of devices I have it’s pretty unavoidable.   Is it better? Only because of the convenience of attaching my TV, DVD, receiver and music streamers together with short Ethernet cables. 

My router on the other hand is located for the convenience of the cable modem and data closet, far away. 

I'm a fan of DH Labs cables in general. I own several and used to own several more. I bought one of their ethernet cables once then got curious and ordered one from Blue Jeans Cable at a much lower price. I could not tell any difference whatsoever so I returned the pricier cable. BJC does seriously good work and tests every ethernet cable they make. I only buy ethernet cables from them if it has anything to do with my system. 

I clearly stated the advantage or benefit of providing clean AC via my dedicated lines and power conditioning to both modem and router. The greatest benefit for diminishing router noise is the disabling of wifi. As for self generated noise, minus rfi leakage into other components having modem and router far away doesn't somehow magically decrease noise on streaming chain, router does what it does. The improvements and/or advantages of powering these components via clean AC is the same as it is for all the other components and devices we power with clean AC from dedicated lines and power conditioners. The other advantage is short LAN cables and//or less or no need for optical conversion.  I also power the router and modem lps with quality dc and ac cables. no cheap outs here.

To argue against the above points means providing clean AC to modems and routers is of no consequence, having short runs of quality LAN cable is no better than long run of inferior cable. Wifi contamination of the router itself and closely situated modem is of no consequence, and yet at the same time wifi contamination is of great consequence when it sits close to other components. Does it not also matter for the router itself and modem?

I'll also add these optimizations are incremental improvements, streamers and dacs are by far the most important components in any streaming setup. The most important thing when addressing incremental improvements is while each on it's own may not be noticeable, adding these improvements in multiples is what makes all the difference. I've instituted these improvements pretty much as a single variable and through long term listening have a pretty good handle on what each optimization brought to the table.

OP,

I'm pretty sure that @sns must have addressed this somewhere. 

There are two approaches. Fix the network or get a better streamer. "Fixing the network" involves becoming and IT person and upgrading / quieting the router, and lines for the whole house. Typically audiophile router, special power supplies, etherregen... stuff like that. 

Or, just get a better streamer. I would recommend an Aurender N200 or better. I own two Aurender and internal files and streaming sounds the same and simply stunning. My main system runs off a wall wart wifi extender and my $45K vinyl rig = CD = stored files = streaming... audiophile level sound quality. 

I'd recommend a high end streamer... just a whole lot easier for those of us who do not want to fiddle with the network. I was in IT most of my career... I'm retired... I want to stay that way. 

ghdprentice

... There are two approaches. Fix the network or get a better streamer ...

I don't see this as an either/or proposition. You can work to create a stable, quiet network - in part by physically locating network components distant from the audio system - and you can also use an audiophile quality streamer. I think both can contribute to better sound.

Salient point I neglected to address in regard to AC quality. It seems commonplace now that adding lps to every streaming component results in better sound quality, and to this end I see more people adding lps to routers and modems. One of the common arguments is lps superior because smps contaminate AC, not going to argue with that. But is that the only advantage, could part of that advantage also come from the cleaner power lps provides? And then we can apply the same argument to the router and modem. People report better sound quality with lps powering these devices. So how can that be? With routers and modems located far away from the audio system, the smps is only contaminating whole house AC lines, so simply adding another smps to another what ever number of smps supplying dozens of common household appliances cannot be the reason for better sound quality, it must have something to do with cleaner power supply to these devices. Its long been accepted providing clean power to audio devices results in better sound quality, yet there is something mysteriously different with routers and modems that makes then invulnerable to crap power being supplied to them. 

@cleeds You're correct on that everything needs to be addressed. Streamers are quite distinct from networks, what they are fed is critical. Saying that networks don't matter is akin to saying what's upstream from any interface is not important. The entire streaming chain is important, and I believe it should be treated holistically. Filters and such are all just band aids, not saying they can't be effective, just that you can never get back what you lost upstream. If the river is polluted you must find the source of that pollution and treat it accordingly. 

Ask yourself why there are so many audiophile network devices out in marketplace. Some will claim snake oil, others laud these devices claiming to hear improvements in sound quality. Noise is only one issue bringing about contentiousness, we could add timing as well. Clocking is another area being addressed these days. Some write off streaming technological advancements as snake oil, all these devices couldn't possibly affect packets of digital data. But then one has to ask themselves, is streaming sound quality continually improving?  My answer is yes.

sns

... Ask yourself why there are so many audiophile network devices out in marketplace. Some will claim snake oil ...

What I ask is this:

What is the advantage of locating your network components physically close to your audio system?

Part of the problem is that many people have very poorly configured networks. Many still use their ISP’s modem and router. Many cram these low-quality devices into their equipment rack, or place them nearby. So they are looking for ways to remedy the noise that results, when they might get equal or better results by simply relocating their network equipment. Or, as others have noted, by simply upgrading the streamer.

Here what I have done, not sure if I can improve without significant cost?

COX router, WiFi disabled, connected to separate switch and router. 20ft blue jeans cat 6 to stack audio smoothlan, then 1.5 m DH Labs Ethernet to streamer and DH labs USB to DAC.

All audio equipment except amp plugged into Equi=Core 20 amp balanced power supply.

Home wifi has 2 access points, both about as far from the listening room as they can be.

@ghdprentice I appreciate your input but don't believe the Aurender 200 to be a better sounding streamer than what I have. I'm not sure why you believe the Bryston to be an inferior product. I looked into this many years ago and spoke to my local dealer who carries both Aurender and Bryston.

@hickamore I just messaged you.

I added an Ethernet filter which then uses a very short run of cable to my streamer.  Very good results and positive bang for the buck.  There are many choices out there at varying prices.

The more robust, but more expensive, way to get the noise floor down is an audio grade switch to clean up the signal. Good luck. 

@kr4 It defies any sort of logic that hand-rolled Ethernet cables would actually be better than machines built cables (or even work at all).  As you obviously know, the whole idea of a machine twisted pair cable would be to eliminate variations in the twists and overall construction of the cable. Without those precise twists in the cable, you will have a problem.

Rolling them by hand would be like building a kit car on a Beetle chassis and then entering it into Formula 1 race and then acting surprised when it doesn’t even qualify.

As to Cat 8, it’s unnecessary.  It’s not "noisy" as it can do 40GB/S, but it won’t work better, since the fastest internet widely available in the US is around 1GB/S.   

In fact, Music requires very little bandwidth;   WiFi will work just fine.  Most streamers will support both.   Have a friend switch them without telling you what he chose and see which you like best.  Or if you can tell the difference.

@goofyfoot I am occupied at present, will get back to you. 

I went back and forth on this... seems to be different takes = one side is a "bit is a bit" and it doesn’t matter, the counter that the last 3 ft do matter.  I was skeptical...but I am doing the last few tweaks to my digital path. I picked up three from the TheCableCo. One from wall to switch, one to my Aurender N20, one to my TV. =  DH Labs Silver Sonic
Reunion CAT8 Ethernet Cables & a used (half price) Synergistic Research
Ethernet Switch UEF to feed the path into my audio room...it made a difference, even the TV path had notable improvement. A good review of the switch is here along with upgrading ethernet cabling...https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1121/Synergistic_Research_Ethernet_Switch_UEF_Ground_Block_SE_Purple_Fuses_Review.htm.  I am now going down the rabbit hole of grounding.  Ethernet cables, for the price point, are so much more economical compared to interconnects, power cords, and speaker cables. If you finalized these first (in a digital path the interconnects really matter), then I would offer it is worth it for the final digital path of your system.