If wifi enabled router will leak rfi into closely situated equipment. If you disable wifi it's really no noisier than other digital equipment, hard drives and transformers will leak more rifi than a router with wifi disabled. I have trifield meter so I have measurements to prove it.
Audio Grade Ethernet Cable
I've been thinking about getting a DH Labs ethernet cable. My thought is to get my crappy router as close to my Bryston BDP 3 as possible, so that the cable is only 0.5 meters. I do have a TeraDak LPS connected to the router. Is this a waste of time and money? I know the cable is just a couple hundred dollars but I don't want to spend that much just to realize again that my local files will always be preferable.
Showing 7 responses by sns
So, two schools of thought in regard to whether networks impact sound quality for audiophile streaming. Not here to argue this, non believers can go on using wifi. So, generally we find the following in many audiophile streaming setups, modem and router far away from audio system, long ethernet cable to network switch, this switch may be generic or audiophile switch, switch connects to streamer. Some take the audiophile switch a step further and use some sort of network filter in addition to the switch. And some go even further in using audiophile ethernet cables between switch and streamer. Many report these devices and measures effective in providing better quality streams, this adds to the empirical evidence networks do indeed impact streaming sound quality.
And so I'll use an analogy of a river when describing streaming network chain. We have this source of pollution at the router, this in the form of rfi from wifi, and also in the form of other forms of emi. So the idea is this contaminated river water will be cleaned up via the audiophile switch, filter and or streamer. This all makes sense, and per above many report better sound quality using these conditioners/filters what have you. But what if you cut out the offending pollution at the source, this means at the modem and router. Number one benefit is you may no longer need these additional devices to clean up the pollution. I'll also posit the idea perhaps these filters/conditioners don't in fact entirely decontaminate this flow, perhaps some pollution is getting past them. And we also have to acknowledge that even with the filter/conditioner there is pollution in this river during it's journey from router to filter, perhaps this alone may have detrimental effects on sound quality.
So how do we eliminate, or at least diminish this pollution source? We locate modem and router close to audio system, and we eliminate as much emi/rfi pollutants possible. This means both modem and router powered via lps (and how well we implement this matters), we disable wifi on router in order to eliminate contamination via rfi of both router and any closely situated streaming or audio components. Whole house wifi is provided by a second router connected to first router via long LAN/ethernet cable, quality of that cable not all that important. Another added benefit (if you believe ethernet cable quality variable) is short cable runs now available to you, .5M is my longest ethernet cable run. Now there is new evidence out there that eliminating the router altogether via an audiophile managed switch provides even greater gains, this by eliminating needless network traffic via nearly constant pinging. Dejitter Switch X for anyone interested. I'll also add, you may still want to continue using a network filter even with the above setup, I find my JCAT netcard XE to be effective.
So, this the logic involved in providing what is known as a 'clean' network for our audiophile streaming. The whole house network or 'dirty' network is now segregated from the audio or 'clean' network. Beyond this I can only say don't assume or presume this can't provide superior streaming sound quality vs whatever setup you are running at present. Empirical evidence far more compelling, than presumptions and assumptions. Offering advice based on presumption and assumption may be doing a great disservice to the audiophile community. It took many years of trial and error to finally come to the point where streams offered equal sound quality vs ripped cd's on NAS, this particular network optimization proved to be the final equalizer.
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Salient point I neglected to address in regard to AC quality. It seems commonplace now that adding lps to every streaming component results in better sound quality, and to this end I see more people adding lps to routers and modems. One of the common arguments is lps superior because smps contaminate AC, not going to argue with that. But is that the only advantage, could part of that advantage also come from the cleaner power lps provides? And then we can apply the same argument to the router and modem. People report better sound quality with lps powering these devices. So how can that be? With routers and modems located far away from the audio system, the smps is only contaminating whole house AC lines, so simply adding another smps to another what ever number of smps supplying dozens of common household appliances cannot be the reason for better sound quality, it must have something to do with cleaner power supply to these devices. Its long been accepted providing clean power to audio devices results in better sound quality, yet there is something mysteriously different with routers and modems that makes then invulnerable to crap power being supplied to them. |
@cleeds You're correct on that everything needs to be addressed. Streamers are quite distinct from networks, what they are fed is critical. Saying that networks don't matter is akin to saying what's upstream from any interface is not important. The entire streaming chain is important, and I believe it should be treated holistically. Filters and such are all just band aids, not saying they can't be effective, just that you can never get back what you lost upstream. If the river is polluted you must find the source of that pollution and treat it accordingly.
Ask yourself why there are so many audiophile network devices out in marketplace. Some will claim snake oil, others laud these devices claiming to hear improvements in sound quality. Noise is only one issue bringing about contentiousness, we could add timing as well. Clocking is another area being addressed these days. Some write off streaming technological advancements as snake oil, all these devices couldn't possibly affect packets of digital data. But then one has to ask themselves, is streaming sound quality continually improving? My answer is yes. |
Repeating myself. How does putting modem and router close to audio system pollute if wifi disabled? Does a long ethernet cable connected to a switch or streamer magically reduce this noise?
Now I'll agree the most optimal solution is likely an all fiber network, this requires not only the service but also fiber capable streamer. For cable service optical conversion can be a positive step, I do this myself, but this instituted specifically for my two streamer Roon setup, in other words post Roon Core streamer.
So, going full optical requires both optical service provider and streamer with optical input. Cable service will require fiber conversion and not all conversion schemes created equal. So lets say we've done the fiber conversion for the cable service either at router or just post router, so issue of long LAN cable moot. Now we have the issue of AC supply/possible contamination of AC and wifi contamination of the optical router itself. Seems everyone agrees LPS is a good thing vs SMPS for streaming components. With modem (I also power this with lps) and router far away from audio setup I'm going to assume these will be powered via common house AC lines. Is the assumption quality of ac feeding the lps for these devices of no consequence? Can you be sure of this, or do you have evidence this is true? With my setup, modem and router, both lps connected to my power conditioner via dedicated AC lines.
And we still have the issue of wifi contamination of the router itself and likely closely situated modem. Optical schemes aren't addressing this issue.
My network solution can be both a tidy and 'clean' solution in that it may make fiber conversion unnecessary. Having a 'clean' or audio only network likely makes optical conversion a moot point, you've rid yourself of wif rifi contamination, diminished self generated noise via lps, quality AC feed, add in very short runs of quality LAN cable. And all this only requires relocation of ISP service port and a second router, such a small expenditure in order to hear for yourself the advantages of this setup.
I suppose I understand the resistance to even trying this scheme, assumptions and presumptions are inherent to our species. I can't count the number of times I've been told this and that can't possibly make a difference to sound quality, and I also can't count the number of times that's proven to be untrue. I've found that experience is the best teacher, and I'll continue to believe that. Try it you might just like it. |
I should add the one thing I have yet to address is whether the amount of network traffic impacts streaming sound quality, my scheme doesn't address this. This is where the Dejitter Switch X managed switch comes in. With this managed switch a 'truly' segregated audio network is achieved. Switches don't have the constant pinging in order to locate devices on one's network, all this pinging migrates to the second or whole house router. There is some interesting discussion on this switch and the need for a 'clean' network over at youtube and I would expect at audiophilestyle forum. |
I clearly stated the advantage or benefit of providing clean AC via my dedicated lines and power conditioning to both modem and router. The greatest benefit for diminishing router noise is the disabling of wifi. As for self generated noise, minus rfi leakage into other components having modem and router far away doesn't somehow magically decrease noise on streaming chain, router does what it does. The improvements and/or advantages of powering these components via clean AC is the same as it is for all the other components and devices we power with clean AC from dedicated lines and power conditioners. The other advantage is short LAN cables and//or less or no need for optical conversion. I also power the router and modem lps with quality dc and ac cables. no cheap outs here.
To argue against the above points means providing clean AC to modems and routers is of no consequence, having short runs of quality LAN cable is no better than long run of inferior cable. Wifi contamination of the router itself and closely situated modem is of no consequence, and yet at the same time wifi contamination is of great consequence when it sits close to other components. Does it not also matter for the router itself and modem?
I'll also add these optimizations are incremental improvements, streamers and dacs are by far the most important components in any streaming setup. The most important thing when addressing incremental improvements is while each on it's own may not be noticeable, adding these improvements in multiples is what makes all the difference. I've instituted these improvements pretty much as a single variable and through long term listening have a pretty good handle on what each optimization brought to the table.
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