Atma-Sphere Class D… Amazing

Name calling when one doesn't agree with an idea or opinion is in fact the immature behavior being complained about.

I did not call out to anyone. Wonder why you were the only one to respond. Take it easy and make positive contributions, if possible.

@tinear123

I just cannot understand why stating your position and one possible retort with civility is not possible by some. You may be having fun being the bully of the playground, and smarter than everyone else, and while you may think you are teaching others, you are in fact disenfranchising those that are starting their audio journey and corrupting the social space this platform can enable and frankly killing the hobby.

Nice summation and sign off. Continue to enjoy the Atma-Sphere and Frankenstein amplifiers.

Charles

Classic move: accuse others of what you're doing yourself.

But I think the regulars have stopped feeding the trolls

Name calling when one doesn't agree with an idea or opinion is in fact the immature behavior being complained about. Too bad insecurity and ignorance ruined the thread.

@tinear123 your posts were refreshing change, so hate to see an adult leave the thread.

Since I am considering these amps, it would also be nice to read more, should you have further comparisons of this amp with any others.

the fiasco that this thread has become with the measurement vs perception "comments / pissing match" has reaffirmed my worst fears of what AGON has devolved into. Worse that small children.

Agreed @tinear123 . But I think the regulars have stopped feeding the trolls. Good to read about your experience. Thanks for sharing.

One last comment then I’ll sign off. I have not been on AGON for about a year and since I was interested in the new Atma-Sphere Class-D I thought I would check to see what others were saying and stumbled on to this thread at page-2. When I secured a home demo opportunity, I thought I would give input to add to the community. That being said, the fiasco that this thread has become with the measurement vs perception "comments / pissing match" has reaffirmed my worst fears of what AGON has devolved into. Worse that small children. I just cannot understand why stating your position and one possible retort with civility is not possible by some. You may be having fun being the bully of the playground, and smarter than everyone else, and while you may think you are teaching others, you are in fact disenfranchising those that are starting their audio journey and corrupting the social space this platform can enable and frankly killing the hobby.

Done & out for another 6 to 9 months.

I don't think it is luck to have an amp that measures well and sounds good. I think it is the goal of many skilled engineers/designers. There are plenty of amps that measure very well and are very successful in the marketplace. There are also many that measure poorly in comparison, and yet they too find their supporters. If one didn't know better one might be tempted to believe that people's tastes vary quite significantly and that "good" and "not good" perceptions are relative to the individual, not the gear.

@kuribo my attempt at sarcasm or sardonicism may have been too well disguised.

@j-wall

Unfortunately, no I have not tried the PS M-1200 it would be severe overkill for my horn application as was the M-700. That being said I did hear it back to back with the PS-BHK300 on Wilson Sasha DAW and my preference was the M-1200. If you need the power might be a solution especially with the tube rollable input stage.

@williamdc

Funny you mentioned this as it was on my mind for this morning... I will say the cheapo Crown did spank the PS M-700 previously leaving me shocked. I was so sure the PS would crush the Crown that I dug out the Crown box from the attic before installing the M-700s... then 3 days later took the Crown box back to the attic and sold the M-700s.

@tinear123,

When you listed your system, it looked to me that the Atma-Sphere amps would be the best fit to replace your Crown-XLi-1500 bass amp. The Reference Compact cabinets in my experience respond well to the best amplification possible.

(I have a pair of BD-Design Reference Compact bass cabinets I built years ago -- they are in storage).

Although perhaps your configuration is such that it would be hard to replace the Crown for some reason? If not, you may want to try a swap.

Cheers.

@tinear123 you mentioned these Atma-sphere's class D being in the realm of PS Audio m700. I've been considering the M1200's with a tube input. Have you heard these? Would you care to explain how the same or different the Atma-sphere may be vs the PS Audio monoblocks? 

Thanks for your review. The Frankie’s are a great amp. And as you said excel in certain areas. I figured your review would be as such. As the AS Class D aren’t as good as my MA-1’s in the same areas. But your findings are basically mirror mine when comparing my MA-1’s.

No surprises, and experienced listeners know that no amplifier/audio component is flawless. You listen and choose what suits you best and provides the higher degree of joy and pleasure, accepting inevitable compromises.

If the desire is for more emotion ,soul, humanity, breathe of life type of sound, a high quality SET or OTL is very difficult to match. It just always depends on what you want. Other topologies will excel in other specific sonic parameters/areas.

Charles

@holmz 

Ralph seems to have an amp that measures well and sounds great.
It seems like a lucky outcome to achieve both at once

Since he hasn't to my knowledge published the measurements I couldn't say it measures well or not. It seems to sound great to some, but every amp on the market sounds great in the minds of some people.

I don't think it is luck to have an amp that measures well and sounds good. I think it is the goal of many skilled engineers/designers. There are plenty of amps that measure very well and are very successful in the marketplace. There are also many that measure poorly in comparison, and yet they too find their supporters. If one didn't know better one might be tempted to believe that people's tastes vary quite significantly and that "good" and "not good" perceptions are relative to the individual, not the gear.

@nonoise 

What's it like going through life quarreling with those who don't see things your way? It must be all consuming for someone like you.

I couldn't say, why don't you enlighten us?

@tinear,

   Thanks for your review. The Frankie’s are a great amp. And as you said excel in certain areas. I figured your review would be as such. As the AS Class D aren’t as good as my MA-1’s in the same areas. But your findings are basically mirror mine when comparing my MA-1’s. But there is no heat for summertime listening. Which is a bonus. Thanks again expressing your view point. 

Follow Up... While it sounds like I will never leave the 300B world please note that there is no turntable in my system after 25 years the Innuous streamer enabled divesting vinal 2 years ago and I’m perfectly happy with streaming.

All... my initial report out of the Atma-Sphere-D compared to my Coincident Frankenstein Mk-2 300B amps. I listened for 11 hours yesterday deep into the night using a pattern of 2 hours between swapping then repeat. One thing to remember is in my system these amps are only driving my mid/high horns so from 300Hz to 21kHz thus I cannot speak to low frequency performance.

I generally listen to blues and classic rock so Etta James, The Commitments, BB King, Marsha Ball, Boney James, Diana Krall, Greg Porter, Eagles, Joe Walsh, Lenny Kravits, Los Lobos, Prince, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Van Morrison, 38 Special, ACDC, Beck, Boston, Chicago, Etc.

The AP-D frankly sounded very good and has a number of strengths as compared to my Frankies. First and foremost, the grip they had on my speakers was immediately apparent with mush improved transients and leading-edge crispness. High frequencies are clean and extended without being sharp and had more energy than my Frankies but the surprise for me was the increased power in the lower midrange to the point where I had to adjust my miniDSP xover for my LF amp to dial down the output curve in the 200Hz to 950Hz range. Of special note is the APD amps are dead quite even with my 112dD efficient horns.

The downside was that the 300B Frankies spanked the APD in the midrange as one would expect since this is the strength of 300Bs with a fuller more textured presentation with bloom and air. While the APD had good soundstage depth & width again the 300B Frankies are king of the road here as well.

In summary: I think the APD is much more accurate than the Frankies and would accel in most any system and I suspect they have authoritive base given the additional low extension power they provided with my mid-high horns. As for me, I think I may have been in the 300B world too long to walk away from the luscious midrange even with their shortcomings in ultimate accuracy. Special thanks to my dealer Koby at HiFi Logic in NJ for his flexibility for working me in.

The Atma-Sphere D's are in good company with the FirstWatt F7, FirstWatt SIT3, Cary 805C, PS-Audio M700, Benchmark AHB2 that have challenged the Frankies.  I will continue to search from time to time for a suitable solid-state tube amp replacement. 

@tinear123 

Really nice

Would love to hear it

@niodari 

    Yes as I stated the Nova 500 and the GAN 400. 

@holmz  I'm talking about stacking them on top of each other, on one rack shelf. The company that makes my class D amp often shows their monoblocks stacked. but reviewers and owners say it reduces sound quality. I tend to prefer short interconnects and longer speaker wires for system architecture.

That would put you in the minority.

Usually speaker wires/cables are better as the length goes to zero, and the XLRs are designed to handle longer runs.

But it would be a good question for the s designer to answer. <— @atmasphere 

@kuribo is not a troll he is a vulture,

bronx cheer.

@holmz  I'm talking about stacking them on top of each other, on one rack shelf. The company that makes my class D amp often shows their monoblocks stacked. but reviewers and owners say it reduces sound quality. I tend to prefer short interconnects and longer speaker wires for system architecture.

Thanks,

aldnorab 

@pstores, the things similar to what you say about atmosphere class d amplifier was earlier declared in different threats in respect with the Peachtree GaN 400 and Voyager GaN 350 amplifiers, in particular. It is difficult to  visualize the extent of your observations without making a direct AB comparison with one of the above or other similar GaN amplifiers (these two are almost equivalent).  You mentioned about some Peachtree amplifiers that you had, but you didn't said if it was GaN 400 and if you did an AB comparison. That kind of report would really be useful.  Otherwise you are saying nothing particularly new. 

OP, did you say you had listened to some of the current generation Class non-GaN D amps from Hypex, Purifi, or Pascal?  Are those all ones you felt were dry etc.?

The only ones I have heard to date were the AGD, also GaN, not in my own system. They were completely clean, clear and enjoyable.

Another brand of class D monoblocks loose sound quality when stacked.

 Do these Atma-Sphere loose any sound quality when stacked?

Thanks,

aldnorab

@aldnorab  What does “stacked” mean in your context?

I would be prone to only stacking one behind each speaker with a 1-2’ long cable connecting it up. But I think I am missing your point.

reminder memo on not feeding the t-r-o-l-l-s 🤫

less noise is better, music comes through with greater purity!  😂

@kuribo 
 

Seems a shortage of such in this thread which is overpopulated with small minded intellectually feeble name callers who can neither rationally defend their position nor accept any idea which might challenge their misconceptions.

I am not sure that it is helpful to refer to them as small minded and intellectually feeble.

They may appear feeble in mathematics and and engineering, but they could have other skills, which we may not posses…

And on the other side, we have the “everything matters” tribe, and “my ears are all that counts” group.

Ralph seems to have an amp that measures well and sounds great.
It seems like a lucky outcome to achieve both at once. 😎
… and it makes me wonder how he did that.

@kuribo ,

What's it like going through life quarreling with those who don't see things your way? It must be all consuming for someone like you.

All the best,
Nonoise

Another brand of class D monoblocks loose sound quality when stacked.

 Do these Atma-Sphere loose any sound quality when stacked?

Yes, absolutely. No, of course not. Maybe, it depends on who you ask.

@nonoise 
Is that all you've got? Sad but as expected.

@kuribo 

Thanks for agreeing with me and demonstrating so in your follow up posts.

All the best,
Nonoise

Another brand of class D monoblocks loose sound quality when stacked.

 Do these Atma-Sphere loose any sound quality when stacked?

Thanks,

aldnorab

@holmz 

learned people

Seems a shortage of such in this thread which is overpopulated with small minded intellectually feeble name callers who can neither rationally defend their position nor accept any idea which might challenge their misconceptions.

@nonoise 

Kuribo is nothing more than a high functioning troll. 

The usual name calling when the intellect is feeble and struggles to produce any intelligent or meaningful counterpoint.

@soix 

because no one has any opinion or experience that are useful to him so why even bother?  Leave him to reading his spec sheets

I wouldn't say no one has an opinion or experience that I wouldn't find useful but I can say with confidence that none of yours would be of use.

Kuribo is nothing more than a high functioning troll. 
He's just messing with everyone. Ignore him.

All the best,
Nonoise

I think @kuribo posted this:

I have said repeatedly that measurements are useful to me in evaluating products as far as engineering, performance, suitability in my system vis a vis other components, etc. are concerned. I have also said repeatedly that the ultimate arbiter is how the equipment sounds in my system in my room. Yet over and over I hear the comments about how "I learned 50 years ago that measurements have nothing to do with the sound", "measurements are useless in determining how something will sounds", "go to ASR", blah blah blah. I can not help but conclude that several posters here have a reading comprehension deficiency and/or a fear and lack of understanding of things numerical and technical.

Whether one listens like @pstores, or uses metrics and numbers like @kuribo , it us hard to argue that this amp doesn’t tick all the boxes.
(But I have not heard it myself.)

The designer of the amp is also a bit prone to measurements, and explaining things technically… so it is not like the designer is into alchemy and magic.

And most learned people would not likely argue that the designer is a fool, and that technical aspects of the amp are foolish.

Finally an opinion we can all (well mostly all) agree with.  Hopefully we can now shut this fool up.

@soix. 
 

+1 ignore @kuribo 

Here’s a hint — if you just ignore @kuribo he’ll go away.  You’ll never change his mind, and no opinion matters to him except his own and he honestly doesn’t think he can learn anything from anyone else so there’s no point engaging him on any level.  Frankly, and in light of his mindset, I don’t even know why he’s here (short of being a total troll) because no one has any opinion or experience that are useful to him so why even bother?  Leave him to reading his spec sheets and the rest of us can continue sharing our honest opinions and thoughts, which is the whole point of this site.  Sheesh. 

@kuribo

and that’s your opinion. So let’s now move onto what others with real world experience with these amps. And not keyboard jockies. How many times do people need to say that. I’ve probably said it 10 times.

@pstores 

I am not talking about specs. I am talking about your deeply rooted need for affirmation and the uselessness of other's opinions when it comes to evaluating equipment.

@milpai

+100

Not sure about 2005. But 2006 was also great. Now hopefully back to others with with world experience with these amps.

@kuribo 

 yes it is… Your opinion on specs are just that…. A subjective opinion. You keep stating the same things Over and over and over again. When it’s just your opinion. I keep nicely asking if we can get back to others opinions with real world experience with these amps. You can’t seem to let it go and get back to others opinions. You’ve stated you opinion now let’s get the thread back to others opinions. 

I really wish people were sticking to the original topic of Atmasphere Class-D. Most of the people arguing here are providing negative contribution to the original topic. I wish it was 2005 again. That was when I joined Audiogon, and it was a great learning place!

@pstores 

It's not a circular conversation. It's me trying to have a rational, logic based conversation with a wall. Shame on me.

@kuribo

You fail to see this is a circular conversation. And you opinion about specs is only an opinion. It’s simply your opinion. So let’s get back to others opinions on these amps. Instead of this circular conversation you seem to feed your ego with. Man when I post my opinions next week on the Aqua LaScala DAC I’ll be sure to state opinions from end users please. And not keyboard jockies with zero experience with said gear.

@invalid 

The designer did use measurements, but I’m sure he didn’t  use just the measurements that are normally published in the manufacturer spec sheet.

Who said he just used measurements?

@pstores 

Yes, you fail to understand the distinction between opinion and fact, as evidenced by your comments indicating there is a "right" and "wrong" and your need to validate your own opinions by having others share your opinions. I have failed to understand that no amount of explaining the logical fallacy you operate under is going to turn the light on. My mistake.