Yes as I stated the Nova 500 and the GAN 400.
Atma-Sphere Class D… Amazing
Today I picked up my Atma-Sphere Class D Amps. These aren’t broken in yet. And they are simply amazing. I’ve listen to a lot of High End Class D. Some that cost many times what Atma-Sphere Class D costs. I wasn’t a fan of any of them. But these amps are amazing. I really expected to hate them. So my expectations were low. The Details are of what I’ve never heard from any other amps. They are extremely neutral. To say the realism is is extremely good is a gross understatement. They are so transparent it’s scary. These amps just grab you and suck you into the music. After I live with them some and get them broken in. And do some comparisons to some other high end Amps Solid State, Tubes and Class D’s, also in other systems I’ll do a more comprehensive review. But for now, these are simply amazing amps.. Congrats to Ralph and his team. You guys nailed on these.
Showing 50 responses by pstores
I should add I heard the prototypes a few years back at Ralph’s Shop. So I knew at that point they were really good then. But hard to compare till you put it in your own system. The system you are most familiar with. Tonight I got to do that. And is when I how special they really are…. Going to be a great weekend… |
I have Atma-Sphere MA-1’s with all the options. Have an Atma-Sphere MP-3 Vcaps and Caddocks. Both are 3.3 versions so current. Am running Bel Canto Dac and Streamer Dac back to back. Current versions. Running Roon with dedicated server. Classe CDP-202, with Khorns with VCAP ODAM’s in the crossover. Running Cullen Cables for Power, Interconnects, and Speaker cables. Also have a set Gregiteks, Harbeth 40.2 and Magnepan 1.7i for some comparisons. I took Ralph’s word that I would like these amps. I have not heard any Class D I actually liked. Or would compare to a Fully Optioned Atma-Sphere MA-1. And now I have…. I am like I said very surprised. So far in some respects my MA-1’s do things better. And some respects the Class D do some things better. Once broke in I can’t wait to put them against some nice SS Amps. And compare them more to my MA-1’s. It’ll be interesting if I like them better in the end. But this is all subjective opinions… My own…. But my system isn’t a slouch system. And I run all High Rez files. Hope that Answers your questions…. |
Spkrplus, I believe they outperform the M-60. I’ve had s-30, M-60 and my MA-1. I am not sure I’d say they are Tube like. But they aren’t harsh and bright like many SS Amps. Elangley01, No the just didn’t add some distortion and create some amps. This is a complete departure as to the way all other Class D Amps have been designed in the past. Hence how Atma-Sphere got a new Patent in the Circuit Design. I doubt the NC400 would be close to having the sonic character as these do. I’ve listened to many high end Class D. Some costing more. And these are better defiantly better. On Monday I’ll have another more expensive Class D to run side by side in my system. Just to see how much bettter the Atma-Sphere really is.
As far as “Break-in” Ralph said not a lot just a day or two. They share same components like Power Supply, Capacitors and such. Which pretty mush all need some “Break in” time. I’ve always trusted Ralph and his staff to give Honest and Straight answers. I hadn’t heard the finished product. But I know Ralph very proud of this product. As he should be. And he is the Designer. So I thought there maybe some Bias. But I think he down played these to me. These are truely an awesome amplifier. Are they as good as my MA-1’s? In some ways yes. And others ways no. Will I like them better than my MA-1. Probably not. But the MA-1’s are Basically 4 times the cost,also. And they are simply a special amplifier. IMHO… I’ll reserve comments on that for down the road while I get to compare them more. Need to get used to the Class D some. But there is no heat from the Class D. My house is super insulated. So the MA-1 do heat the room some after awhile. The tubes don’t run super hot because they aren’t driven hard. And they last forever it seems. But they do warm the room up. Hence why I got these. |
Yes, crazy isn’t it…
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I’ll be comparing these amps to Pass XA series including the .8’s. As well as other amps. Will keep all other components the same. And will hold the Db’a the same as well. it’s going to be fun couple months doing some serious comparisons. I still have a hard time believing they are this good. The realism is absolutely incredible. |
Ddafoe, yes you are correct they run very cool. I wasn’t that surprised by that. As Class D do run cool. Hence the reason I got them. It was a choice of Pass XA 30.8 or the XA 60.8, or Atma-Sphere Class D for summer listening. The Prototypes I had heard a few years back were pretty good. No way close to as good as these. So the apprehension was there. I looked for reviews from owners and such. Then thought Ralph’s been a very straight honest person. And I feel he down plays his own gear some. So I took the chance. Besides $5400 for a great amps these days is cheap as hell considering what others cost. I suspect what I am going to find is these amps outperform many other amps costing much much more. Regardless Class D, SS or Tube. I am not looking for a certain type. I am looking for excellence . So if the Pass outperforms the Atma-Sphere Class D, or any other can within in my price range I am willing to spend…… That’s what I’ll end up with. I have a budget of $15,000 with selling my other amps and such. So at the end of the day. The best amp under $15,000 wins. As long as it’s not a room heater. With having a super insulated house that’s a concern. My MA-1’s I’ll keep for winter listening. As they aren’t going anywhere. |
I got the Silver Faceplate. They look pretty nice in person. Looks doesn’t add much to the sonic qualities. Maybe give you some placebo effect. Like the McIntosh MC452. Looks nice. But not the best sonic qualities for an amp that expensive. I had one for a very short time before I sold it. I’d rather pay for function. I guess the same could be said for Pass Labs Amps also. But hell I love the Pass Labs Amps. The First Watts are also damn nice amps. Glad people like Nelson and Ralph build for sonic qualities, not beauty contests. That could make it that much harder for the common folk, like me, to get some awesome gear.
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Onhwy61, have you ever heard any equipment made by Atma-Sphere? Are you aware his Preamps are considered one of the best of the best? His Amps are legendary? How many listening sessions have you had with Atma-Sphere gear? What I see in this thread for some reason is small number of Atma-Sphere haters. To me that makes no sense. Especially the way Atma-sphere shares information and in a non bias way. And I’ll bet that none have spent anytime with the gear. Whether it’s OTL or his new Class D. The professional reviews say all great things of his amps. I’ve never seen a mediocre review let alone a bad review. And he doesn’t Advertise or really Market his products. Why? Because they are that good and he doesn’t need to. One of the few. I’d you have a grudge against Ralph whatever…. But not sure how you can bash a product you’ve never heard. That’s actually weird….
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I’d bet that logo was picked, and identified, to show .001 lower distortion and zero feedback on their OTL Amps. I’d bet since it was such a success with the OTL’s they continued them onto the the Class D for same reasons…. But if you look closely at the logo…. It’s pretty damn cool design. And it’s been around for along time, decades. First I’ve heard of the logo complaint.soix5,337 posts I’m pretty sure they found that logo to sound the best after testing many others. Everything matters. |
dDAFoe, thanks for the comparisons. Specifically to the 30.8. I’ll be comparing them to the 30.8, 60.8 and a couple from the .5 series. So it will be interesting. I do love Pass Amps. And without doing a side by side I’d say your spot on. But can’t wait to do a side by side for the true comparison. Thanks again |
Jerryg123, Marco1, you will not be disappointed in these in the least bit. I’ve got a few hours of hardcore listening time now. But, these are truly world class as with Ralph’s OTL’s and preamps. I’d say if you like the M-60’s or Pass XA .8 and .5 series you’ll love these. Next weekend I’ll be doing some comparing with other amps. I picked these over buying Pass Labs .8 XA series amps. I suspect I won’t be disappointed in my decision. I think either the Pass or the Class D I can live with. It’s going to be interesting to hear them side by side, to see if one or the other is better. I want to listen to them longer. But I can say. The neutrality and realism I am experiencing is something I have never heard with any other amp. The accuracy to be true to the instruments and vocals is down right scary. I find myself walking into my living room expecting to see the band, vocalist or musician playing the specific instrument. And am hearing details and micro-details on recordings that I’ve never ever heard before. They also drive easy (105db 8 ohm) and harder loads (84.5-86 db 4 ohm that dip into the 2 ohm slightly) with authority without sacrificing the realism and accuracy and details. They don’t struggle at all driving bigger harder to drive Maggie’s. The soundstage is huge and deep, with the speakers I’ve tried them on. Like my MA-1’s The space between instruments and the separation of all instruments on the stage is also incredible, probably as good as my MA-1’s. I have all NOS Winged C in MA-1’s and did a ton of tube rolling for the 6SN7’s to get them where they are. And have a lifetime supply of tubes since the OTL’s are so easy on them. Best part these are not dry, lifeless, class d’s I’ve that I’ve heard from a few other companies of higher end amps. Definitely the best Class D I have ever heard. Possibly the best amp I’ve heard under $10,000. But I’ll reserve that for the next comparisons. Not fair to say till I’ve had them side by side.
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Specs in many cases don’t mean best sonic characters. I’ve learned being in this hobby for 45 years that you don’t listen to specs. You listen to the sonic qualities of the amps. I am 57, and have been very fortunate to listen, own and have many different pieces of equipment. Some had great specs but were lifeless and dry to listen to. Adding to major listening fatigue. Not just my opinion but when we pass the pieces around to others they had all agreed. I stopped being a spec jockey many years ago. Listen to the audio gear and let your hearing be the judge. Specs are posted on Ralph’s website. The spec argument has been around forever. I’ve seen so many threads on here over the past 15-20 years. It’s actually good entertainment at times. I give all gear a fair shake not dependent on specs. Actually I don’t look at specs anymore until after I’ve listened to the gear.
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So IMHO, after some in depth listening today so far. I switched back to my MA-1’s. I do prefer the MA-1’s. I like the attack and decay of the MA-1’s better. I like the depth and fullness of acoustic instruments better. It’s a warmer presentation you’d come to expect from tubes. Although I don’t believe the M-60’s would keep up to the class d. I also believe if someone likes a nice SS Amp like Pass XA 60.8 they may prefer the Class D over the MA-1’s. Also there are a few things that I do like about the Class D over the MA-1’s. To be fair though I rolled a lot of Tubes in my MA-1’s looking for a certain signature. And that’s what I am used to. And the MA-1’s I have are 4 times the cost. So I’d hope they were better. JMHO….. |
Well I can say Peachtree when in a quality system you’ll hear the pitfalls of them. The more revealing system the more pitfalls you’ll see. They are a dry, lifeless Amp. Lacks in details and is very fatiguing. They won’t even be close to Atma-Sphere Class D. Maybe 40% of the Atma-Sphere at best. Guessing there is some degree of Atma-Sphere haters here. Comparing the Peachtree to the Arma-Sphere is like comparing a Ford Pinto to a Mercedes 380SL. JMHO…. So in the reviews today and tonight. The Tube guys liked the MA-1’s better. The Pass guys like the MA-1’s better for the Blume, Soundstage and space. But liked the Class D’s over all. As I suspected would happen. My MA-1 tubes are very laid back. If I put different tubes in there maybe a different response. The Pass guys have the XA30.8, XA60.8, XA250.8 x250.5. All very impressed. Will be putting the class D’s into their systems next for an comparison. A lot of comments like these are only how much? One comment “maybe the best amp they’ve heard under $10,000”. All agreed at $5400 they are a steal for the sonic qualities. And all agreed there is a degree of give and take between the MA-1’s and the Class D. Like I said next is to put them into others systems and see how they do in various systems. All are world class audio systems. |
Pretty simple…. I’ve had alot of Class D’s in my system. I haventliked any of them till these.
ghdprentice3,144 posts You bought a pair of amps expecting to hate them? Strange approach to putting together a great sounding system. Could you elaborate? Your system, strategy, venue. |
I’ve put together a pretty good system. I’ve tried a ton of Class D. I’ve never found one that I liked. Or would be close enough to my MA-1’s for summer listening.
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snapsc, Yes to all. When the guys came over. We played several pieces that highlights each of the instrument's that you mention and more. As I mentioned before the Realism and True to the Instruments is incredible. The Amps like my MA-1’s just suck you in and transport you to the concert. I found my self at times walking into the room looking for the band. They don’t have the bloom and soundstage the MA-1’s have. But, they still do very good. Soundstage is deep and wide. Cymbals, Drum taps and kicks, Brushes, Piano, Sax, Guitars all are what they should be. And these are NOT dry and lifeless. Nor bright. But they aren’t sleeping either. Simply put for the money. I’d say best I’ve heard under $10,000. Reguardless of SS, Tube, Highbrid, Class D. The XA.8 and .5 Pass guys that came but loved them. As did the Tube Guys. I was going back and forth buying Pass XA 30.8, XA 60.8 or Atma-Sphere Class D. I am very happy with my decision.
As for Ralph’s class d amps… is the music vivid and engaging? Are the harmonics rich? Do pianos sound right? How about horns? Is there sibilance? Is the soundstage engulfing? How do cymbals sound? How about drum hit? |
All Bel Canto made from 2012 on.
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The Watt Wars of the late 70’s and 80’s is still live and well. People maybe shocked if they measured what they use at listening levels. So far in my room on 86-105 db speakers loudness, control, finesse hasn’t been an issue. For these amps. Not saying at times more power could be used. They can drive hard loads well. Nelson Pass talks about the First Watt. And builds amps to stay in Class A to various Watts then switch to Class AB. Why? He knows that almost all the time those amps will hardly leave if ever Class A. But people can say they have a 400 watt amp that mostly runs under 20 watts. Unless run really hard at High SPL with Lows dipping hard. I’ve run the Atma-Sphere hard on Manepans at very high SPL with very complex music. They showed no signs of fatigue or weakness. Next weekend I am going to try them in a larger room driving bigger harder speakers. My room is 30x25. But hey if people feel the need for Watts…. Watts it is…. JMHO
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oops, looks like only 1/2 of it….. lol
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@recivs In reading your comments. You seemed to have derailed my post. Forums are meant to share experiences with equipment. Give others some real world insight. This post was meant to share experiences with Atma-Sphere Class D Amps. Factual experiences not hypothetical. It seems your comments are meant to troll other members. I’d appreciate we get back to the comments from members that have actual experience with the Amps. And keep the comments to factual information. Not hypotheticals. I’ve been a member for a very long time. And sadly see more trolling happening. It really detracts from the forums and real world information that can be gained. I’ve always kept my comments to equipment that I actually have listening and used within my system. |
Tomorrow morning I am going have some fun. Am going to bring these amps and put them into some high end systems at a local Audio Shop in a Minneapolis suburb. Like to hear them drive some really hard loads. And see how they do against some amps 5 times plus the cost. And I want to hear them on big Magnepan and Wilson’s. Just curious… Should be pretty interesting. Afternoon will have a shootout against Pass Labs XA60.8 amps which I really love. They are 2nd to my MA-1’s in my system. Should be fun to hear if the Atma-Sphere Class D can best them. |
This is true. I will unbolt the Tansformer and place some Dried Dog stuff in between then wire tie it down. Don’t have much for wood. Although I can put some birch bark top and bottom of the Dog Stuff. I’ll report back.I do have some Class A Wire Nuts also. I’ll hard wire everything. Got new soldering gun from HD last week I’ll try to convince my friend to do it to his Pass XA60.8’s later today also. Not sure how that will go with him though. |
Well I have had the peachtrees in my system. They are at best mediocre. They don’t compare to the Atma-Sphere. The have a clinical, dry lifeless sonic character. Soundstage and depth isn’t there either. And the don’t have the sort of realism the Atma-Sphere has. The Atma-Sphere is true to instruments. A piano sound as a piano should. As well as Sax, drum beats, brushes and cymbals. I have also had some of the other amps he lists in my system. As to date the Atma-Sphere Class D beats them all. And not by a small margin. And is the only Class D I have like within my system. And I really like them. Recivs is just trolling here and trying to derail the thread. And I doubt he has heard any of the Amps he lists. And I know he’s never heard the Atma-Sphere. So not sure how one can review an amp that they’ve never heard before.
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I have had the GAN 400 and Nova 500 within my system. As well as others I don’t recal the model numbers. I believe they are low feedback not zero. Just remember this advice is coming from someone who believes Nelson Pass, Dave Hafler, Ralph Karsten, Frank Van Alstine, Keith Johnson, Bob Carver, Dieter Burmester, John Curl, David Berning, Saul Marantz and others should be siliconing and wire tying their amps together. And none really have a clue how to make a great amp. And all could learn a lot from him. So you should take what he says with a grain of salt. On top of that… He’s never had a product brought to market. If he had and had implemented his design features of Wood, Silicone and wire ties to hold his amps together. He’d be a world class Audio Engineer. Or at the very least making millions updating and modifying Pass Labs XA250.8’s. As they aren’t glued together and held together with wire ties. And the people that can afford a cobbled together subpar Pass XA250.8 would be on waiting lists for him to tweak their amps. For me I’ll stick with Nelson, Saul, Ralph for professionally designed and built equipment. I’ll put money on that he can’t make an Atma-Sphere amp sound better. He should buy a set. Tweak them. And Ill bring mine for and AB test to his house, apartment, or trailer park that he lives in. I’d like to see him put his money where his mouth is. |
You are going to love them I’ll bet. Guessing since they are a demo pair they have a lot of hours on them. Thats good. I did find mine got slightly better after a few hours of run time. But they were great out of the box. What does your system consistent of? I’ll be looking forward to your comments. I’ll be posting more information also later today after putting them into different systems at an Audio Shop in Minneapolis. And a friends house on my way home. |
Pudelpointers are a very old and rare breed. Once people realized I used the dried excrement and Birch Bark with special Teflon twisted pair wire ties that should definitely increase the value and sonic character of the amplifiers. Hopefully we can try it with the Pass XA60.8’s also. Just think of the overall improvement these amplifiers will see. The Dried Dog Excrement should isolate the Power Supply from vibration better then wood by far. And take all Jitter out of the signal path. I may even try to silicone all the boards on top of a few pieces also. Since the amps don’t heat up I don’t believe smell will be an issue. But the XA60.8’s heat up some. Ummm, we will see how it all works out. |
You can look up the patent pretty easily. And I would say from a consumer that has had most of those amps in my own system. They quality of the Sonic Characters (soundstage, details, realism, engaging, not bright or harsh, transparency etc) puts them above all others I’ve had in my system. If you read up some posts you’ll see the class d as well as others I’ve owned or had in my system for demo. I have not found any Class D that I liked till these came along. JMHO… |
+10 hopefully we can get back to the amps and not BS…. Opinions are just that. Opinions. And everything in Audio is subjective. But when so many that have heard the amps actually…. Have nothing bad to say about them. I have only heard great things from other owners. And people that have heard them at other venues. |
You do realize this is a circular conversation you don’t have to keep repeating right? Let’s move on the more reviews and view points others that have heard these amps have to say. I am interested in what others that have actually listen to them. See if they are the same, close or opposite my opinions. It’s nice to hear others experiences in their systems. And what systems they have. I am really interested in Tinears thoughts. As his system will be extremely revealing. |
Very very nice system….. Can’t wait to hear your take. Those Coincident Amps are one of my Favorite 300b and with the right speakers are simply awesome. I wasn’t able to put the amps against the XA 60.8’s today. Friend had an emergency. But I did spend a few hours at the Dealer. He really enjoyed them. He said he was shocked how dynamic they are and how they grabbed the Magnepans. They had total control over a speaker the dips to 2 ohms and measures out 84.5 db . Magnepan states 86 db… Some HIFI reviews state actual specs around 85. He said most 100 watt amps can’t do that. The soundstage was yuge. Bass was perfect. Accurate and clear. Pianos crisp and real. Cymbals sparkle and brushes defined. The music was accurate and true to all aspects. Which in itself is very impressive. The Maggie’s weren’t in the room. You couldn’t pinpoint them across the entire back of the room. Am sure if they were box type traditional speakers you’d clearly hear one over the other as you transverse the back of the room. These are very transparent and organic at the same time. Not bright on Maggie’s at all. Or any harsh leading edges. The attack and decay was what it should be as well. It just doesn’t do anything offensive or bad. Just for fun I cranked them up to see if I could shake the amps. They never broke a sweat. Never got warm, Never strained to control the Maggie’s. And they rocked the house.
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40 years ago I learned you don’t listen to specs and measurements. Some of the best spec’ed gear sounds sterile, dry and lifeless. Try listening with your ears and then look at specs. Being there has been so many reviews. And quite a few regular people like me have posted their thoughts one what they heard. All with pretty respectable systems. None have said anything negative. Actually all so far very positive. Professional and Consumer reviews. Should mean something. Yes all subjective. But one common view point. So points to a common outcome. It’s like IT people 1’s and 0’s are always 1’s and 0’s. You can’t improve on that. Well it seems you can. DAC’s and Class D’s prove that everyday. |
Your opinion is the same Argument you use. It’s your opinion. You just keep this circular conversation going. I think it’s been covered. But when people keep on a circular conversation it’s about ego. I keep saying this opinion of yours has been cover over and over again. Let’s move on to real world opinions as what the spirit of the thread is about. |
You fail to see this is a circular conversation. And you opinion about specs is only an opinion. It’s simply your opinion. So let’s get back to others opinions on these amps. Instead of this circular conversation you seem to feed your ego with. Man when I post my opinions next week on the Aqua LaScala DAC I’ll be sure to state opinions from end users please. And not keyboard jockies with zero experience with said gear. |