I’ve four Decca London cartridges. Maroon with line contact tip, Gold with line contact, Garrot Bros Gold with line contact, Super Gold with Paratrace. All have Decapods except Maroon. Output is easily 5mV. Each one has its own particular flavor and behavior. Once you go Decca, it’s hard to listen to anything else. The combination of idler, Decca, tubes and electrostatics just gels for me. |
@rauliruegas , yes, I saw "induced magnet" in the included lit but didn't know what it meant, figuring it was just marketing-speak for MM. |
Dear @wrm57 : You are welcome.
Well Your ADC cartridge as other ADC models are really good and is no MM design but Induced Magnet. ood for you.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Back in 2010, motivated by Raul’s monster thread (yes, it was even too big back then), I bought a handful of vintage MM carts off eBay, just to try when I had some time. They were all reasonably priced or downright cheap, which of course is one of the beauties of MMs compared to MCs. I mounted a few and thought were were OK, nothing too special. The Grace F9 was definitely a keeper but the others, not so much, probably more because of mismatches with my tonearm at the time than anything else. The gem of this small horde was a brand new ADC TRX-2 that I never opened. I wasn’t sure at first whether I was going to keep or resell it, so I put it in the drawer and then just forgot about it. Reading this thread brought it back to mind so I mounted it last week. Whoa! this thing is remarkably good! Fluid, dynamic, detailed, musical, it pretty much does it all. Maybe it doesn’t have quite the refinement and openness of my top MCs like a Benz TR or A90, but it comes remarkably close and adds something organic that they don’t really have. And the soundstage is huge. I had to track down the right headshell first because it is very compliant. The ADC LMG-1 at 7.6g is just right. So thank you @fjn04 for this thread, and @rauliruegas for cluing me into this cartridge way back when. I’m going to dig around in the drawer and see what other neglected MM treasures I might find. |
- Grace F9 (Soundsmith makes replacement styli) - Technics EPC-205C* (the EPC-100C has already been mentioned; JICO makes replacement styli for the 205) - JVC/Victor X-1 (JICO makes replacement styli) - Audio Technica 150* (really any of the AT 150 models; AT150 MLX/Sa, ATML 150) - Fidelity Research FR-6SE
* Best with TOTAL capacitance (including cables) <200pF |
My MC journey has been Clearaudio Concept MC -> Benz Wood SL, Shelter 501 with line Ruby contact, Lyra Delos, Benz Wood SL, Benz Gullwing, Benz LPS, Aidas Gala Gold. I'm now running a Stanton 980 LZS, with a Gyger - S retipped D98 stylus. I'd liken the Stanton's profile to "Dynamic, vivid neutrality..." if that's a thing. I like it as much as my Aidas Gala Gold, which ever so slightly romanticizes its presentation, but it probably the most natural sounding MC of the lot I've tried. The Stanton just seems to be so effortlessly dynamic, without adding any liberties of its own to the sound. Of course the Stanton is a fantastic tracker, but the Aidas was no slouch in that regard either, as the Aidas tracked better than the Benz I had. Long story shot, I'm really diggin this Stanton 980, but if I had a second arm or table I'd have the Aidas in there too. It's all good, life is short and there are many superb cartridges. |
@lewm : Philips had not much sucess with its cartridges. As a fact I knew Philips on cartridges thank's to the " euphoria " to discovery new MM cartridges in that long MM thread and I found out my sample GP 412MK3 through ebay. No other gentleman before me posted northing about Philips. Well the GP 412MK3 is really good quality performer and Philips said that the cartridge magnet is : " magnet steel " and the cartridge is a MM with an unsual low output for a MM of mere 1.3mv. This Philips and the Micro-Acoustics is worth to listen it and especially the GP 412MK3 not so easy to find out ( I still own it. ). R. |
If you look at the RIAA curve, you’ll see a sort of ’flat’ spot that isn’t duplicated by the constant amplitude characteristic. So you do need some EQ. If you look at a proper ceramic phono input, you’ll usually see a network that takes care of this. This is the same issue faced by strain gauge cartridges, although some of them are built to accommodate the RIAA curve. |
MMC1 or MM20CL. I destroyed the OEM cantilever on my MMC1 because of the stupid built in stylus guard. Had it replaced by SS but their sapphire cantilever is solid as opposed to a hollow tube in the original and looks less delicate. I haven’t auditioned the repaired version but the original was one of the best cartridges ever. Tracked everything at 1g. |
@mijostyn - Might that have been the MMC 20CL? |
Back to the Philips. It seems odd to first add a filter apparently built into the cartridge to make its voltage output vs frequency curve mimic that of a traditional magnetic cartridge and then connect its output to a conventional RIAA phono stage which re-corrects the frequency response. Would it not be more pure to run the uncorrected output into a simple linear preamplifier? (Yes, there is the shelf between 500Hz and 2kHz, built into the RIAA specification, but that by itself would be easier to compensate for in the preamplifier alone, or so it seems to me.) I guess that built in filter (and reduction of voltage output) was deemed necessary back in the day to encourage sales to 'philes who already owned MM stages. |
@lewm I am off the opinion it is not too many years before I hang up the gloves for the use of MC's. The design in my view will not be offering much more over an MM or others to be put to use, as my level of hearing will be deteriorating. At present I have a range of MM's to bring back into regular use and the Ceramic Cart' has got about £50 tied up in it inclusive of the spare stylus, which will supply a very good investigation and experience for the outlays I have made. I have spent on quite a few occasions, more than £50 on unknown devices, just to see how they perform as a interface, and have kept them available for demo' and loan purposes even if not proving to be to my preference. Tube Rolling is just one experience, Platter Mats another, along with numerous Cables. The intention to do more to the Cart' and include a Boron Armature and Replacement Tip, will be the where the bulk of costs are to be associated. That is the cost to experience this Cart' as a bespoke design and to be produced as a build type that I would like experience.
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@lewm : This is the Sonotone that MA made reference. Btw, contrary to the MA ceramic/electret the Philips has a lean bass ( - 1.5db at 50hz to 500hz. ) that you correctly listened :
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sonotone/9ta.shtml
R.
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Dear @lewm : As always there is nothing " new " about that cartridge. As a fact Micro Acoustics was who had more susccess about but they not named " ceramic ":.
""" The Micro-Acoustics cartridges had a different construction than Sonotone. The stylus arm was directly connected to the ceramic elements, an idea that was patented by Micro-Acoustics. The transducer elements were referred to as electrets, but were made of the same piezoelectric material, lead-zirconium titanate. The ceramic elements had resonance way above 20kHz to insure good response and separation to beyond 20kHz. The cartridges also had an internal microcircuit to convert the amplitude response of the piezo material to velocity equalization for use in a magnetic phono input on a preamplifier. ""
In the long MM/MC long thread was analizwed and I owned and own from the 2002e and other MA models and as I posted there and if I remember in other threads not only me but other gentlemans have a good opinion on the overall quality levels sound by Micro Acoustics cartridges. Comes as stand alone cartridges that you can mount in almost any tonearm well almost any tonearm because the MA are very ligth around 4gr and runs at 1gr. VTF and is a high compliance cartridge. Btw, in those old times MA developed and puts in the market a test/demostration LP recording that I own too and that time to time appears on ebay ( recomended ). It runs directly in any MM phono stage and is not sensitive to load impedance/capacitance.
Here you can read something about and after that you can go to the 2002 model and you can take a look what a gentleman that owned sevral carrtridges like the Stanton 881S claimed and you know very well the 881 that’s " almost " the same as the 981 that you own:
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/micro-acoustics.shtml
Here on sale NOS and is the model I own for several years. Any one have to try/test/listen to these Micro-Acoustic cartridges including @fjn04 :
R.
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Firstly using Youtube as a means to listen will certainly not give a true insight to what a demonstration has to offer. In this case it has helped home in on what I was experiencing. The Cart' in use in that Clip has Bass Extension, I can assure you, as the Roger Waters 'Amused to Death' recorded using Q Sound has proved. There is a track that makes one believe the system is on the verge of imploding due to the Bass extension, the Track on the system with the Ceramic Cart' in use was inflected with the same assault. To further understand what was happening, the Link will cover the bulk of what has evolved for the use of the Cart'. I have the same model, as a result of being introduced to it through 'audioflyer', following on from when it had undergone the mod's referenced from Page 8 onwards. https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?41517-Philips-GP390-Ceramic-cartridge-NOS-1970s |
Pindac, thanks for posting that YouTube video. Music is wonderful but has little to no bass content, so difficult to judge the overall cartridge performance. I take your word that it’s good. I was hoping there’d be some explanation of the preamplification being used, since ceramic cartridge output V is dependent upon stylus displacement not velocity. So ceramics don’t need RIAA filtering in the phono stage. What was going on when you auditioned the Philips ceramic? |
Sumiko Talisman S Sapphire Tube, van den Hul 2.0g; sep > 30db; bal 0.5db ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; I did mount/align it. I played some Cecil McBee, Alternative Spaces before my friend arrived, very impressed. https://www.discogs.com/master/204354-Cecil-McBee-Alternate-Spaces Not compared it’s sound yet, especially bass output to current AT33PTG/II. Because slight signal strength change, Sumiko 2.6mv; AT 3.0mv, so need to get some pencil marks ready for equal volume, then compare. Happily, both MC’s have 10mv coils and use the same impedance setting on my SUT, just switch inputs with slight volume adjustment. Friend arrived, we finished listening to Cecil, both loved the sound. He is very familiar with my system sound and a few of my cartridges, including playing his Goldring here. He brought some ’new to him’ LPs, looked like they had never been played, Sumiko sounded terrific, soon just totally involved in the sound. He also brought an ’apparently never played’ Louis Armstrong, 2 mono lps, 'Half Speed Mastered' with recordings from 1936 to 1938. All original Decca recordings re-issued. https://www.discogs.com/release/6970821-Louis-Armstrong-Big-Bands-Louis-Armstrong Switched to Grado MM Mono, and they sounded very very good. Big warp, didn’t bother the Grado tracking 1.5g a bit. If you didn’t look, no idea the big warp existed. Playing that big warp with a Stereo Cartridge, in Mono mode could not be good, the Stereo cartridges pick up any vertical movement, and your preamp doubles the resulting noise in Mono Mode. Without the warp, nearly new condition of this modern groove Mono release (1985), a Stereo cartridge played in Mono Mode probably would have been quite good, however the Mono Cartridge always makes a small and sometimes large improvement. We seemed to notice, there was an improvement in the 1938 recordings over the 1936 ones, I’ll have to give a second listen. I wonder if a new mic or mixing board, .... was introduced, some game changer. Or just better engineers. Anybody know? |
Stanton 881s mkii
I found an NOS example on Reverb. Lovely, balanced, great sounding cartridge and my ears are very much attuned to the ‘modern’ MC sound. The only drawback was the mounting scheme which involves old, hardened nylon pieces that appear to be untapped. Other than that, a very worthwhile cartridge. |
I have Grado MM Mono, no hum. My friend had a Grado MM Stereo, it hummed. Steve at VAS gave him the clue that many Grado cartridges hum. Goldring: I heard their Eroica MC LX 0.5mv low output which needs signal boost. https://www.goldring.co.uk/goldring-eroica-lx-cartridge.html#tab2 I have not heard, but I suspect their High Output version, same Gyger 2 stylus also sounds terrific. 2.5mv output uses MM phono input, no signal boost needed. https://www.goldring.co.uk/goldring-eroica-hx-cartridge.html#tab2
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The My Sonic Lab Hyper MC in my main system/turntable offers great detail. But with that wealth of detail, it also offers plenty of body. But I’m sure there will be trade offs for a HO cart in this price range. So with that, I’m just looking for something tonally communicative, with amply body. My Charisma (wood/ruby cantilever) denon 103 has some real mojo for an MC under $1000. So it will be interesting to see if I can find this with a HO cart. |
I am a long-time Grado fan, but they sometimes hum, resisting all kinds of grounding schemes. Even 50 years ago Grado cartridges were simply incompatible with some turntables, the AR being one. Hana EH $450 SH $750 or MH $1200 for an elliptical, Shibata, or microline stylus. I have an SH running on a VPI JMW Memorial 10.5" arm, whose lower tracing error and dial-in arm height make the otherwise very critical setup of any Shibata or Microline stylus a lot easier. While the gain is a little lower than a MM cartridge, the sound is otherwise as close to flawless as I have experienced. My one complaint is the lack of tapped mounting holes, easily remedied by carefully running a 4-40 tap through the existing smooth holes. For the money, or even a lot more, the Hana line are exceptional cartridges. |
Dear @fjn04 : I think that today HO cartridges inside your price range are The Nagaoka MP-500 and agree with @mijostyn for the Goldring 1042. The stylus tip of the Goldring is the same that uses Ortofon in its 9K LOMC cartridges, the Replicant 100. !
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. I forgot, the top of the line MM in Clearaudio catalog is truly fine too.
You can't go wrong with either one. Good luck. |
The only mass spec on the 250 I could find was the ST (straight) version, but the S (S shaped) may have a similar mass. Apparently 18 grams total mass with the head shell itself being 15 grams alone. So there's future flexibility with changing headshells to ad or (perhaps) subtract mass to suit a particular cartridge. Another interesting surprise was my Naim XS3 phono does fine with the EMT TSD 75 at a mere 1.0 MV. Not ideal, but it works. So my guess is I'm fine with any cartridge that is equal to or greater than 2.0MV. I figured Nagaoka would see some light in this thread. The Nags have certainly been popular amongst the MM/MI/HO fans. |
London Decca, though you need the right arm to tame it, or a damping trough. A Naim Aro was only any good with original mono cuts, an 18g eff mass Schröder Reference makes it behave itself but could be considered overkill. I’m waiting to see what the new owner will come up with, I’d love to replace the maroon with a Reference. I’ll have to try it with my Korf when it arrives but it won’t be the first, I have a Transfiguration Proteus and an SPU Royal N to get through first while the Decca stays on my Schröder. |
@lewm Just another opinion, that does not help with the encouragment of any individuals who may develop a curiosity/interest in this type of Cart'. My follow up investigations after the demo' of the Ceramic Cart' introduced me to others who have adopted these Cart's over other readily available options and I also learnt that some have even gone to the extent of producing a modified Phonostage to suit the Cart' in use. My experience has been to date, I was demo'd a Ceramic Cart' that had a Paratrace Styli as a exchange part. I liked what I was being presented and over the course of a day had a few revisits to the Demo' room and had some of my Albums Tracks played. The Cart' used in the demo' system replayed my Blues Tracks just as I wanted to hear them, and was not too off putting on other genre of music, the Roger Waters Q Sound recording Bass Line, was delivering the usual system destroying presentation as recollected from any other demonstration it has been used in. For the experience of this Cart' to be maintained in my own system has not incurred to much outlay, and the Modified Armature and Styli has only added a small cost, as it is being carried out at the time and in conjunction with another Cart's rebuild. I am happy to fulfill this experience yet to be created in my own system, as well as make it known it is my intention to do so, what ever the response is to such. |
