Worth upgrading my cables?

Been curious about that product as well thyname...i would suggest maybe 12awg for your amps...seems from my experience lately that 14 awg is a tad light.Fwiw.

@wester17 I agree.  GroverHuffman cables come with either a 30 or 60 day money back guarantee.  He can't produce them fast enough, so his one return in years was immediately resold.  His speaker cables are exquisite for the price and power cables are a necessity.  

I have long been a cable skeptic, but I’m now a believer. Like you, I had the Canare 4S11 Star Quad cables and felt they were a definite improvement over run-of the-mill basic speaker cable. But last year I tried the Nordost Ax Angel cable, which was on-sale at the time for 50% off, and the difference in sound quality between these two cables was vast. In comparison, the Star Quad was muddy, overly warm, colored, and offered much less detail. I didn’t realize how much detail and refinement I’d been missing until I made the switch. I purposefully try to avoid saying negative things about HiFi products I don’t like, and instead I prefer to highlight the positive experiences I have. In your case, I would highly recommend you try some different cables. I’m not recommending Nordost per se, and in fact, I’ve even considering an audition of some Kimber cables which might be even more neutral. But I sincerely believe you’ll reach a higher level of audio quality if you try some other options. Many companies have 30-day return policies if you don’t like a particular cable. Enjoy the journey!

@jaymark I have posted many times concerning the immense superiority of GroverHuffman power cables for a reasonable price.  My neighbor with a $350-500K system was an electrical engineer who had high end cabling EXCEPT for power cables which he believed (wrongly) that they don't matter.  He had six Pangea power cables in his system.  I just didn't want to hear his system.  It had weird bass with notes going in and out of the frequency range like strings would be missing on a bass.  Distant sounding and dry.  I lent him a older GH Empress power cable for one amp.  Instantly better sounding.  He purchased six replacement GH Pharoahs and I can enjoy music at his home (he also substituted 6H6/6N6 tubes for 6H30s in this AR LS-28).   He has a very nice sounding system now.  

@clearthinker Shunyata Research’s website discusses each design aspect that resulted in the current line of power cables they offer. Here is an excerpt describing the noise reduction capabilities included in the NR cables:

@hifiman5      Please explain what the power cord does to the AC it receives.

If anything.

@designtaylor
your last post was spot on- the entire audio chain matters so it’s usually best to address the weak links.  

Zavfino cables and Grover Huffman cables are both superb performers.

@dreas - I have have Blue Jeans Cable 10AWG speaker cables and have been very happy with them. Like you, I really like the ultrasonic welded connections.  I have not compared them anything “high end” but they seem to do pretty well. 
 

I had BJC LC-1 interconnects and found Audioquest Chicago to be better in my system. It wasn’t a subtle difference and given the price difference I’d go with AQ over BJC for unbalanced interconnects. 
 

I now have a Morrow Audio balanced interconnect and am very happy with them. Their marketing definitely is annoying. I emailed them to poke at it a bit. It’s a very intentional strategy that’s working for them. In short, people like sales so that’s the approach they have taken.  A little too much like Wilsons Leather!

Lots of good comments already.

Before I'd shell out serious money for any cables, depending on length, less than $200 or so, order some custom length Blue Jeans cables. 

www.bluejeanscable.com

In my own A-B testing with high quality rolls of 12 gauge wire, the very pricey Rocket 22 AudioQuest, and Blue Jeans, the difference between AudioQ and Blue Jean Cables was imperceptible. Additionally, AudioQ terminations are twisted bare wire and set screws (really?!) to whatever you choose (banana or spade). Oh, and BTW, AudioQuest silver "SureGrip" bullet sleeves are so fragile, you will bend  and break them by simply lifting or adjusting your wires. No problem since you can buy replacement ends "SureGrip" silver 300 banana connectors for a mere $60.00 for 4 if you can find them. They are anything but "SureGrip" more like, "surely to break." 

Blue Jeans offers 14, 12, & 10 AWG and ultrasonic weld that seems to be a significantly better connection. I was very impressed with the workmanship, quality, and fit of the welded ends. They offer more options for connections and at no extra charge, you can choose different connections on each end (locking bananas, 2 different sizes of spades, BFA, and 3 different fork terminals, or unterminated). They also make most other cables (HDMI, Subwoofer, Data, SDI, and adapters...) I've been extremely happy with Blue Jeans in two different rooms (in one room running bi-amp wires, the other just two-conductor cables). 

I noted one person recommending Morrow Cables. I looked long and hard at their products - even inquired in these forums - but the "fact" that they are always 40% off was curious. Not to mention their incessant email advertising. (Give it a rest, Morrow.) If a cable is that great, why are advertised prices so high that they offer perennial discounts? Are they so overpriced they are always on sale? Makes me wonder who got suckered and paid full retail since they are always on sale. Just an observation. They might be great.

And pertaining to power cables, as other posts have noted, hire an an electrician to install a dedicated power line to your audio components is the best cable money I've spent. (My electrician laughed at first until he crawled under the home - fortunately we have crawl space that you can stand up in - that there were no less than 14 outlets off the main to my room. He tested before and after and the draw was amazing. So for less than $300.00 I have a dedicated line and sliver plated outlet installed. I was shocked at the difference. As I've told several of my audiophile friends, it was the most significant improvement in my system. Depending on access (crawl space or attic access), it may be helpful for you. 

Happy listening! 

@mceljo 

Well new tubes - different sound. Just like in a solid-state amplifier, the main filter capacitors, power transformer(s), and small changes the circuit design can vastly improve or detract from sound quality, or objectively accurate audio playback.

Sounds like you've spent a lot of time comparing the inerconnects/cables. Maybe the difference is related to better shielding from RF noise, superior conductors, and better (less grain) crystal structure of the wire in the cables...which can make for a technically superior conductor. I won't say all cables are the same. Actually, far from it. For this reason, I have custom interconnects and the brand of choice is REAN. 

Over the years I've used throwaway cables...strangely always noticed a slight warmth in the midrange that shouldn't be there on certain tracks. For instance, when Diana Krall sings Black Crow - there is a unique peakiness in her voice that seems to defy the laws of dynamic range. It's so wonderful. 

Happy listening!

@mastering92 - I’ll try to accurately describe the various changes. 
 

My first real upgrade was using Mullard tubes in my Pathos amplifier.  The improvement almost defied logic because I got more detail and also a smoother presentation.  I actually wonder if it was the step that made hearing some of the other changes possible in my system.

the Waudio power cord resulted in a more natural sound that was objectively better even though I lost of the air/sparkle. 
 

The Audioquest Chicago brought back the air/sparkle while maintaining the natural sound. I was really excited about this because while the power cord made it overall better I had also lost something at the same time. 
 

The Audioquest Sydney added more clarity but maintained the same overall sound signature. 
 

The move to a Denafrips Ares II DAC took my system to another level where instrument separation, the swell and decay of notes, and a more real and natural sound was the result. 
 

The Morrow Audio MA4 balanced interconnects brought even more clarity and sparkle, but my favorite aspect is the very defined deep bass notes. Things that were previously only felt became individual notes. I’m still enjoying music like it’s all new post DAC and MA4 upgrades. 
 

I have a Pangea power cable on my DAC, but I didn’t hear any difference with it on my old DAC and have never even tried a comparison with the new one. The Pangea should be the better cord, so it stays. 

@mceljo

Thank you for the write-up.

I have also experimented with power cords, interconnects etc.

I have found that the shortest interconnects seem to provide a tiny amount of gain vs longer ones. Or rather, the long interconnects seem to be reducing the level of  the output signal slightly. (but only by a hare)

I’ve also experimented with power cables in the past. The anomaly found with the new power cable plugged in to the DAC you wrote about might be replicated with a laptop. I once bought an audiophile-grade power cord, close to $1000 just to see what the fuss was about. I heard no difference vs hospital-grade power cords.

I was curious if maybe my laptop charging brick/laptop battery would benefit (maybe faster charging).

With the power settings and brightness/display on/unchanged machine state, I let the laptop charge from 50% to what was now 100% (or fully charged). After unplugging, I noticed the laptop had only been charged to 87% !! The initial reading was wrong!

I then drained the battery to 50% again after having it charge up to 100% with the stock power cord (included by Gigabyte) and the anomly did not occur again. For this reason and others (for example, in-built power cords) I’m not a believer in power cords improving audio fidelity; unless the power cord in question is inferior/low quality and is struggling to supply power to the mainboard in an electronic device.

My auditioning process is simple. I always start by documenting what I’m testing/lisening to/auditioning.

1) Track, volume level, and what it sounds like. ( the same passage/snippet)

I write down my impressions on a notepad.

Then I deliberately forget and don’t look at the notepad.

I take fresh notes and compare/contrast once I’m done.

May I ask what in particular changed for the better? Was it the textural resolve of bass frequencies (different styles as you may know and how they decay etc.) improved midrange clarity, or even elevated treble that seems to pinpoint fine details or improve the "air" in a recording? etc.

@mastering92 - My audition process is far less robust than many. When I finally pull the trigger on a product that I think may improve my system I simply hook it up and see what it sounds like. If I hear an improvement that’s awesome, but I tend to leave it in my system unless something about it doesn’t sound right, because part of my decision process for purchases is to get things that I consider to be superior so my hope is that it may have a higher ceiling with a future upgrade.  I did send a Schiit DAC back because it sounded identical to my least favorite output (it parallel solid state and tube) on my current DAC. 
 

I pretty much went Blue Jeans Cable across the board early in my audiophile journey and didn’t really dabble with cables until last year. I started with a couple of Waudio power cables for under $40 each.  The primary goal was to see if I could hear any difference in my system.  It was a clear difference for my integrated amplifier, no change on my DAC, and seemed to make my SACD player sound really bad (no idea why it had such poor results).  All of these changes were noticed immediately with the results not changing over time. 
 

The positive experience with my amplifier compelled me to dabble with interconnects. $100 AQ made a very nice improvement so I tried a $200 AQ and again notice an improvement. I was at the top of my self imposed budget so moved to digital coax cables. I picked up a $100 AQ and didn’t hear any difference so moved on to other things. 
 

I got a new DAC so wanted to shift to a balanced interconnect. I compared my $200 AQ unbalanced cable to a set of Monoprice XLR cables and really struggled to describe any significance with the AQ remaining the one I’d choose if forced. I picked up a Morrow Audio MA4 on a sale for similar money to the AQ and have found it to be a significant improvement. 
 

Most recently I tried some Micca 14 speaker cables ($60 total) and found them to be musical and easy to listen to with no brightness or glare, but found it a relief going back to my BJC cables after a couple of weeks. 
 

I find direct A/B comparisons to be confusing because I try to hard and more often than not find myself confused. I’ve had the same experience with some other changes where what you remember from A doesn’t meet reality when you do switch back.  Sometimes the improvement is so obvious that I don’t even waste the effort going back and with the speaker cables it was a relief to go back.

@tcotruvo A bit more food for thought. Once I discovered Shunyata Research made noise reducing power cables my interest was piqued. Upon doing my due diligence, I learned that the noise reducing circuitry contained in the cable connectors reduced noise going into the component and noise coming from the component. That latter aspect really interested me. I ended up getting four of their cords, one each for my power amp, line stage, phono stage and SACD player.  Although a considerable investment, the ability to hear more fine nuances, greater detail deep in the soundstage is quite remarkable. Just when you think you understand what is possible in this hobby…

@hifiman5   OK, that gives me something to work off of.  I haven’t tried any power cable upgrades yet, but I’m getting there.  I suppose that most component manufacturers have to keep their costs down, so power cable upgrades are up to the consumer.  My speakers and subs are powered, so speaker wire is not a direction I can pursue.  Thanks!

@tcotruvo The logic of the “power cords make a difference” argument is that the component to which the power cord is connected experiences the AC it receives from that cable and knows nothing of the original origin of that power. So whatever that cable does to the original AC that is what the component operates from.

An anecdote.  Paul McGowan, the head honcho of PS Audio used Audioquest’s top level power cables on his reference system gear and was confronted with the reality that his system sounded so much better than with PS Audio’s own reference grade cables. From then to this day, PS Audio recommends AQ power cords be used with PS gear. 

First, I do not want to offend anyone, or dispute their findings about improved sound quality through better power cords.  For my system, I have normal Romex electric wire from my breaker box to my plugs.  My brain thinks that if I had a power cord made of this same Romex wire to connect from my plug to one of my components, it would not affect sound quality…it’s just a continuation of the same type of wire.  So do people that promote better power cords believe that a link of better wire somehow filters out bad characteristics, or adds in good characteristics?  I’m just trying to figure out if there’s a theory as to how this works.  On the other hand, I can see that some things can happen without explanation.

my electrician audiophile friend remains in amazement over the difference cables make, even after 20 years of experiencing it, as it technically makes no sense to him...fortunately for him he ultimately decides by listening not reading...

@designtaylor 

I don't know where you are located, but if you are close to Fall River, Massachusetts you are more than welcome to come on by and I can demonstrate how much cables make a difference... You would be blown away by how much of a dramatic change there is... I invite anyone else who is interested as well... 

No cheap calls. I asked you first.

😂😂. You go first

@thyname 

What does your audition process look like, step-by-step?

maybe ask an electrician what he thinks of that power cord...

I am all ears. Please tell me.

before willing to part with your money and maybe give it to a stranger on the internet.

It’s $49 for duck’s sake. You guys are really a strange lot.

@thyname

maybe ask an electrician what he thinks of that power cord...

before willing to part with your money and maybe give it to a stranger on the internet.

Try this vs. your stock power cord: 

If it makes no difference, I will send you $49 free. And, I have nothing to do with seller

Try an easy experiment find an interesting used interconnect, the easiest cable to change, and drop it in your system and see what you think. Buying used you can always resell the cable if you don't like it or hear no difference.

There’s something to be said for enjoying your system as it is while upgrading over time. You can burn through a lot of cash and drive yourself nuts trying to do too much too quickly. Enjoy the journey, the destination will arrive before you know it. Good luck!

+1 @rhg3 

I'd say you're sitting pretty as is.... 

relax and enjoy now.  

@bigtwin : Ali Express only counterfeits a small portion of audiophile cables. Audioquest, Nordost, Gryphon, Shunyata, Cardas, and a few others. Before you buy, use the key words just to be safe. Ask for verification of Authorized US dealer, from seller, and you will be fine. 

@rocray With all the fake cables out there (just just over to the Fake Chinese Cable thread with it's 13 pages of comments) I would be very leary of buying on the used market thse days.  Just saying.....

The only suggestion I will make, is purchase cables from the used market.  There are so many really great values out there.  

If you’re curious about what differences/improvements you might get from better cables, I’d suggest that you pick one interconnect (maybe source to preamplifier) and try another Morrow Audio cable further up the line.  If you don’t like it or hear a difference/improvement then return it. 
 

I’ve only done a little experimenting with cables. For interconnects, I tried an Audioquest Chicago (RCA) and was impressed compared to my BJC LC-1 interconnects. I was impressed enough that I wanted to try something better and figured that moving up in an Audioquest product would be a more apples to apples comparison, so I selected the Sydney (RCA) based on design features and also the price point. It was another step up, but not as significant as the first step with the Chicago. 
 

I got a new DAC so wanted to move to a balanced interconnect so took advantage of a Black Friday sale for some Morrow Audio MA4 (XLR) interconnects. They were the level that I alway had interest in and with the sale aligned with my price point. I’ve been very happy with them and consider them better to my AQ Sydney, but they technically are close to double for retail price so they should be better. 
 

If you like the sound of your system, try moving up a few levels. You can trade in your current cables for 65% off, with little risk of them not sounding at least as good. If they end up being a worthwhile improvement then you could work towards upgrading your other cables. 

In order of importance for my system:

1. speaker placement (free and uber-important)
2. speaker isolation (own and like IsoAcoustics Gaia)
3. speaker cables (own and like Morrow Audio)

If you have not experimented with moving your speakers around then S Gordon’s advice is great. Mr. Prentice was also right on the money if you do go the cabling route

Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions. It sounds like it is worth investing some better/different cables to match my system. This is not to say the cables are the be all end all, and that as always placement, room treatment, component synergy, etc. are all critical factors to consider as well. 

So many folks here have fine quality components connected with less accomplished cables. Mistake every time!  If you need convincing, then do it. Research cable offerings, make a short list of those you would like to audition, and listen.  If you don’t hear ANY differences then you are at a point with your system where it is incapable of revealing cable variances. If your music satisfies you then you are at a good spot and should just relax and enjoy what you hear. 
 

If you do hear differences, the real work now begins. What cable sounds how in what system connection?  What combinations of cables in specific connections, improves the sound of your music?  The one real limiting factor is cost, assuming you have a limit on the funds you can allocate to your cable project. 
 

My last five system purchases have been cables. Four were power cables and one is the interconnect between my line stage and power amp.  
 

one warning…don’t even go there if you can’t afford the cables you audition. You can’t unhear what the auditioned cables brought to your system. That just leaves you with a persistent reality of loss.

Assuming that you have solved, power distribution, speaker positioning, turntable/ cartridge alignment, components support, any room treatment (if needed), then better cables, no matter if silver or copper, will definitely have a positive effect. Everything matters for achieving a good sound not just cables. You can find a good and reputable dealer and borrow complete sets to try out, and save money in the long run. I have a sweet spot for cables that use means of better conductor manufacturing process so that leaves out for me the majority of the pro called cables. In an era of Triple C, Ducc or even OCC (all of them having advanced methods of manufacturing), the ones using OFC are lacking. But good sound of a cable is not only determined by its conductor but by its overall construction, the materials used, the geometry and the connecting component.

After trying out and experimenting you can only decide what is good for your system.

My suggestioin is to get get your hands on as many cables types in as many price points as you can "reasonably" get your hands on. This would include cables above your "comfort zone" if they can be returned. Expanding the size of your "toy box" makes things a lot more fun, and you’ll get to experience things outside of the scope of "highly recommended" products. I’m going to predict that you’ll find improvements in areas where you least expect it. To me, this is often the most rewarding aspect of upgrades. The price of admission may be less than you budgeted, or a whole lot more. Your internal calculator of value vs performance is the final, and most important, variable.

I would also include upgrading your wall outlets. IMHO power delivery is often the most underappreciated aspect of system performance.

One more thing. I’d consider putting $10 worth of Dynamat on those Heresy horns.

You would absolutely benefit from changing your speaker cables to Morrow, but I would at least go to the SP-4's. I had SP-6'S and sold them because I needed a longer run. I replaced them with Canare 4S11's and everything completely collapsed! Presence, soundstage, details and it sounded like the speakers were shouting music at me instead of placing music in the room. Now I'm completely satisfied with Morrow (SP-7's) speaker cables back in my system. But like I said, SP-4'S is the lowest I would go in the lineup, as I have gone through this before. Throughout the years I have had SP-4'S, SP-6'S and now SP-7'S. My interconnects are Dig-4 and MA-7's. And I promise you that even after months of use, they keep getting better! For power cables, I have all hospital grade 14awg from Amazon and I'm happy with them. The only cable that I will eventually replace is the Dig-4, and I'm going to replace it with the Acoustic Zen MC-2 since I hear so many success stories about it. Have a great day and enjoy the music! ✌️

I’d focus on room acoustics and speaker placement first. 

As far as cables go, I’m familiar with the 4S11 speaker cables since I own and use a pair of these. They’re nice and warm sounding. Not the latest word in transparency and soundstage but are not bad by any means. You can do better. After the speaker cables I would tackle the power cords. Synergy is key. Either borrow from The Cable Company or buy used or get new cables from a dealer with a proper return policy. Auditioning in your system is a must. 

+1 Changing your cables will change how your system sounds. Different isn’t necessarily better. One option is to keep trying cables until you find the sound you think you’re looking for — that’s a slippery slope. Try loaner cables, www.thecableco.com has a lending library that is helpful.

There’s something to be said for enjoying your system as it is while upgrading over time. You can burn through a lot of cash and drive yourself nuts trying to do too much too quickly. Enjoy the journey, the destination will arrive before you know it. Good luck!

I don't know that changing cables will result in music sounding better, but it will most likely sound different.

Cerious also makes great, modest cost cables, with return privileges. Since you can listen and try for free, ignore those who say cables are irrelevant, simply decide for yourself, you'll find no agreement here...

DH Labs new “Cryo” cables are worth looking at and they have a solid money back trial period.  I’ve not used them but @blisshifi (Juan) has extensive experience with these cables.  Juan was one of a trifecta of experts that really helped me with my system.

You can certainly make it sound different by changing cables.

Making it sound "better" may be a different story.  Personally, I don't hear much difference as long as they aren't physically damaged or shorted (as long as the cables are conventional and don't have batteries or resistors or crazy capacitance, etc.)

You have a nice setup, play with positioning and enjoy it.