Wilson Audio Sabrina . . . I'm smitten. Should I consider others?

My first post here, I was in a slimier situation; I am a recording musician, I needed a tool to hear my work, but as an audiophile, albeit a modest one, I also wanted to have a speaker I can enjoy listening to when I am not critical at the recording. I spent over a year listening to as many speakers as I could, my budget was up to 20K Euro.
In the end, it came down to the Wilson Sabrina vs. the Magico A3 (I can't afford the S3 and the S1 limited bass output was an issue for me). Although the Sabrina were very enjoyable, they lack the resolution the A3 has. Ultimately, the A3 won in both categories, and I now believe you can have it both, resolution and musicality.
You may want to isolate what you think you like, it can very well be the electronics, and not the speakers.

Martin

Suggest you listen to a pair of Vandersteen Quatro CT.  A bit lower in price than the Wilsons, plus you get powered bass (giving you more flexibility in choosing an amp).  I'm a firm believer in subjectivism in audio so I am not saying anything is "better" than the other.  But one thing I will say is that Vandersteen's approach is a bit different, so if it agrees with you, better that you hear it before dropping $15K+.  :)

Enjoy!

Martin - you nailed it with the S1 bass response.  We stepped up to the S3 to get something closer in response to the Sabrina.  I am not an audiophile, nor will I probably ever be, but the Sabrinas were warmer, richer, and fuller, yet more defined. There were just so musical regardless of what we threw at them.  The Magico dealer expects the A3s in late August, but assured me they were a step down from the S1.

@cedargrover - Vandersteen are one of the few brands that I can hear here in Kansas City.  Listened to the Quatro CT very early on in this process.  You're right, I need to hear them again now that I better know what I think I am seeking.  Great suggestion.

@kcpellethead,Trust your ears. They heard the music and they belong to you. Your seem to prefer warmth over neutral or cool. This is PERFECTLY fine. If you liked the same speaker twice over the Magicos, then go for them. Don't force yourself to like a speaker.

@ kcpellethead 

IMHO, you should be smitten! The Sabrina is a very very good value and was my favorite speaker for a number of years. I’ve heard them with the ARC GSi 75 integrated (now discontinued), LS 28/VT 80 combo, D’Agostino separates, Nagra (very special), Arcam integrated, T+A top of the line integrated + SACD player (very good too), and maybe other electronics as well. The LS 28/VT 80 combo is very very good with the Sabrina and only the Nagra Classic line gear was better (with Aurender W20 + dCS Debussy), but at twice the cost.

I’ve heard the Magico’s including the A3 and to me they just don’t provide that snap and sparkle or convey emotion like the Sabrina. In my IMHO, the A3 is nowhere near the same camp as the Sabrina and I don’t remember being at all intrigued with the other Magico’s I’ve heard.

I’ve also heard the step up from the Devore Orangutan 0/96, the Gibbon X, and to me they also lack that intimacy and they were played with Sugden Class A gear – the speaker seems to lack good bass integration. I’ve no experience with Tekton.

I live in SoCal and I’ve had the opportunity to hear a diversity of gear. For me, and in my price range, the Sabrina and the TAD E1 (also CE1, ME1) are the speakers I feel check all the boxes. I’m in the middle of working out a deal with the E1 including the Evolution Series electronics and an Aurender N10 (it is very much worth the difference between the A10/N10 delta). If I’d not have heard the TAD speakers, I’d be on track to purchase the Sabrina. They are a very lovely looking and sounding speaker. I don’t see, or hear, how you could go wrong. Have fun in your search.

On a vacation to the Pacific Northwest two years ago, I auditioned audio gear while my wife and daughters shopped. I heard the Magico S1s at one store and the Wilson Sabrinas at another. The Sabrinas really impressed me, driven by a relatively modest Naim integrated. The Magicos not so much (limited bass for one). My personal takeaway was I much preferred the Sabrinas. I’ve recently purchased a Lyngdorf 3400 and i think it would be sublime with the Sabrinas.

@kcpellethead, 

I am going to echo @milpai advise, Trust your ears. I have heard Sabrinas and they are on my short list of speakers to try at home. 

The LS28 and VT80 punches way above their price point. I own this combo since last year and very pleased with their fabulous sound. My speakers are B&W 804D2’s. 

Aurender A10 is a good startup choice but I would work towards N10 in near future once you’re settled. Good luck with your search, I am sure you will end with a great system. 

You will not find anything to match the Sabrinas. And  they are stunning with just a Rogue Cronus Magnum II driving them!

I'm also a big believer that when you hear the right speaker for you, you just know.  Given your words about the Sabrina it sounds like you may indeed have found your boy.  That said, there's nothing wrong with hearing some other candidates just to be sure, and now that you have the Sabrina as your benchmark you'll know very quickly whether a speaker "does it" for you or not.  I second the Quatro suggestion, and I'll add the Joseph Audio Perspective as another well worth hearing if you can.  ProAc would also be very worth a listen if you have a dealer within reach as would Verity Audio, although I think the latter has relatively few dealers.  Anyway, best of luck. 

If you want to make a trip near Tulsa, you can hear a pair of Joseph Audio Pearl 3's. Be happy to host.

Who in KC sells the Wilsons and Devores?

Go for the best! The Ilumnia magister (ilumnia.be). Sound’s very natural. Pure detail,a beautifull surround, because the driver is floating on a magnetic field. I’ve hearded a lot of speakers,but this one is “the top”: voices, Instruments,the balance between high,mid, and low , is superb verry holographic  ( 3-D). I’ve put them on the esoteric f-05. : you don’t stop listening. A friend used the Ear monoblocks: just greath!!!

I would not buy any of those speakers new from a dealer without a home audition.  No matter how it sounds in the store, you need to hear it at home to know if it works in your room.  If you're buying used, that's another story.  You're paying half price and you can afford to take a chance.  Any dealer who sells those brands should arrange a home demo if you are truly serious about a purchase.  Good luck.  I like the smaller Wilsons much more than the big ones personally.  

Thank you all for your responses. Scheduled an audition to hear the Vandersteen Quattro CTs again. The dealer also has the Joseph Audio Perspectives, and encouraged me to hear them as well. Also going to make another trip to hear the Sabrina’s again, but in a different showroom with different equipment, which should be a good test to confirm what I heard was not the equipment nor the room. If I am correct, I’ll inquire about a home audiction. I appreciate all of you taking the time to weigh in.

@helomech - nobody in KC has those brands. I traveled to hear them.

@paul79 - thank you for your very gracious offer. What I’ve read about the Joseph Audio Pearl 3s tells me it’s a world class loudspeaker. Unfortunately, it’s not in my budget at this time. Even used, it’s a bit more than I want to spend this time for,this system. 

@kcpellethead Your approach is solid--finding the right speakers is the most important part of putting together a system that you will enjoy over the long term. Working backwards from the speakers, making selections that compliment the transducers, will get you where you want to go. I would encourage you to take your time and, where possible, audition equipment in your own listening room (admittedly hard to do with speakers but easily done with a helpful manufacturer/dealer once you get to the electronics). There are many good speakers at your price point--it really comes down to finding the "flavor" you like best. Magico, Wilson, Vandersteen are well known and offer distinct sonic approaches. I've listened to many different models from these designers over the years and have found aspects of their sonic profile compelling, but on the whole unsatisfying.  I would encourage you to explore lesser known brands where you may find significantly greater "bang for the buck". For example, I've been a big fan of Daedalus Audio for many years. I just ordered a pair of Apollo's, which are the best speakers Lou has produced over a 25 year career arc. Daedalus speakers are very unique in design, build and sonic profile. To me they are much more compelling transducers than anything else I have heard, regardless of price. There are other, smaller manufacturers that deal direct that you may want to explore as well, but I would encourage you to start with Daedalus and see where your journey leads. Best of luck!

+1 on Daedalus should it strike your fancy to explore Lou's speakers as an option; own the Argos V2s

Vandersteen fan here, own 3 pair.....agree on subjective nature of both audiophile and music lover approach to choosing gear...

Richard Vandersteen has been at this for 37 years, built to last I guess....

anyway, enjoy your search !!!!!

What did you think of the Tekton Double Impact SE? I am also thinking of these but cannot find anywhere to audition these in Florida?

Thanks jafant. They communicate, that’s for sure. Love what they do or don’t do may be a better way to describe.
System:Joseph Audio Pearl 3’sAllot of different amps.
Right now it is the Accuphase P-250 amp (Many Moons Audio upgraded/restored)Sansui CA-F1 Preamp (MMA upgraded/restored)Totaldac Twelve 4 box with Server Totaldac Gigafilter
Totaldac Ethernet Cable/FilterWyWires Power CablesAntipodes cablesZenwave Audio cablesDedicated room with DIY diffusers and panels

@helomech - nobody in KC has those brands. I traveled to hear them

May I ask where? I live within driving distance of KC, so I'm curious how far these dealers are. I don't mind driving 3 or 4 hours to audition some gear. 

May I add to the list a brand that lately seems to be forgotten, don't know why, specially in the US. They're imaging and capability of "disappear" are surreal.
They are cheaper than the Sabrinas, they probably don't have the slam of the Wilsons, but I'm very pleased with my pair of Avalon IDEA SE (black piano lacquer) driven by a Nagra Classic amp.
My room it's not very large, but the Avalon's, if matched carefully, punch way above its price point.
Just my two cents.

I am just curious what you thought of the Tekton DI in comparison to the other speakers you listened to.  You may want to consider Legacy speakers.  They have a speaker for every price point

@Kcpellethead
You're considering Wilson Sabrinas and you're NOT an audiophile?? How do you figure?
Also, you didn't mention your impressions of the Tektons.
Just curious, although I think I can guess your response.

You owe it to yourself to check out Legacy Audio, their speakers will match up against any of the brands you have looked at...I won't go into how wonderful the Legacy are, but let's just say that there's a good reason that I own 3 pairs (Focus SE, and 2 pair of Studio HDs), and am looking to pick up a set of Calibre...Truely a wonderful speaker and great people at the factory to work with. Brice and Victoria are very helpful and will do anything to help.

@kcpellethead As the other two posters, I am interested in your impressions of the Tekton DIs vs. the Sabrina.

Seems like you are taking this decision pretty seriously and weighing all your options as you should. You might be interested in hearing other highly regarded speakers such as: Revel Salon 2, B&W 803 D3, Dynaudio Confidence C4, and GE Triton Refs

Interesting you chose the Magico S1, and S3. Both outstanding designs, but DO consider the A3 if you care for that voicing at all. I too really like the Sabrina. But wound up taking delivery on the A3. The A3 sells for quite abit less and has all of the beauty of the Sabrina IMHO. Either investment will be worth your while depending on room sizes, equipment upstream, and listening preferences. 7k will but quite a bit of software, or records.

I took a year or so, visiting all sorts of audio shops in my search for a new pair of speakers.

On one visit, before my listening, the salesman asked me of I preferred "analytic" or "musical" speakers, interesting way to put it.  I thought for a moment and said I prefer "musical".  Before auditioning a pair of Magico S5's he called them "analytic".  I suspect the Wilson's would also be considered "analytic" by most.

Several have asked about the Tekton Double Impact SE and while I don't feel qualified to answer this in the appropriate way, I'll just do what I can . . . . . I had a lot of anticipation to hear them, so I heard them first.  They were paired with equipment that was moderately priced compared to the equipment used in the Magico, Wilson Audio, and even Devore Fidelity auditions.  Even before hearing the other brands, the Tektons did not impress me more than my GoldenEar Triton Ones.  The seemed a bit flat or two dimensional.  They lacked something, but I cannot truly put my finger on what it was.  In summary, they just weren't my taste.  

I can see where someone might say the Magicos are analytical, but I'd say the Wilson Sabrinas are musical.  I just drove 3 hours each way today to hear them again, in a different room, with different equipment, and so wanted them to sound different/worse, but they didn't.  I have one more audition, the Vandersteen Quattro CTs again early next week.  I don't want to be predisposed, but it's going to be really hard.

I can't say this enough. I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond here.  Your answers are all part of my learning process.

@kcpellethead

You haven't mentioned yet:   What did you think of your audition of the Devore speakers?

It's been a while since I heard the Magico S3, but having auditioned a bunch of speakers lately I personally preferred the Devore 0/96 and 0/93 to the Magico A3.   (I found the Devore speakers richer sounding, yet very open and transparent on top, with an even more convincing presentation for drums than the A3).

@prof I wanted to love them. I purposely saved them for last. I am drawn to their look and finish. Partially my fault, it wasn’t a great audition. I didn’t bring any music. I had been relying on Tidal to stream and this showroom was located where service was spotty. Also, I felt like I sat in the near field (not sure I used that term correctly), so everything was off. Without getting a good read on the them, I can’t really say. It would have been a tall order to surpass what I heard from the Sabrinas, but I was so hoping.

kcpellethead,
FWIW:

I've auditioned the Devore speakers numerous times now, and have found that the right distance is pretty critical.  I have to be 8 feet back at least, at which point they snap in to focus both tonally, coherence, and soundstaging.  Sit closer and it seems the sound starts to compromise - the highs start to roll off a bit, they are a bit less open and snappy, less coherent, etc.

I also love the way the Devore's look over many other techno-speakers.

@prof 

This disappoints me. The 0/96 were a mere 5' apart and the hot seat was about 5' away from them.  I knew it as soon as I took a seat, but that was all this room would allow.  Your response makes me feel like I should find a way to give them another shake before making a final decision.  Have you listened to the Wilson Sabrina?

The DeVore are some of the most colored loudspeakers out there. Their top-end in-room response is dramatically shelved down, and their prominent midrange is riding everything else. (https://www.stereophile.com/content/devore-fidelity-orangutan-o96-loudspeaker-measurements). They will be more suitable as a guitar amp then a hi-fi speaker. To claim that they are more open or transparent than a Magico is a bridge too far (several bridges, actually).

However, obviously, they do appeal to some, and you may very well like them.

sciencecop,

Sure, the Devores don’t measure as linear as some other speakers. (Though not as bad as some either). But....

Note that even JA after measuring and then listening in his place, stated:

Even though I knew about the low-treble resonance and the lively enclosure, these problems were considerably less audible than I was expecting. Only with recordings of solo acoustic piano did they get in the way of the music by producing noticeable coloration, the piano’s midrange sounding uneven, with some notes obscured. But with well-recorded rock and classical vocal recordings, the measured problems seemed to step into the background, letting me appreciate the O/96’s full-range, evenly balanced sound and superb clarity.

And that’s what I hear from the Devores. They do an amazingly canny job of combining an old-school like richness and warmth, with an open and sparkly sounding top end. The result, to my ears, is that many instruments actually end up sounding more convincing through the Devores than on many other speakers,.   I usually find reproduced sound reductive - most acoustic sources sound thinned out and electronic.   The Devores seem to "give back" some of the heft and body in an instrument.   I played plenty of the same tracks, with instruments of many types, through speakers like Magico, Paradigm Persona, Focal, Revel, and many others, and it was through the Devores that I often got a "that’s a real acoustic guitar or piano...and especially drum set" impression. They also have a great "boogie" factor where the rhythm of whatever a drummer is doing just reaches out and grabs me. In contrast, a lot of rhythmic music I played on, for instance, the Magico A3 (sure to measure more linear), just sort of "sat there" in a less involving way.   On many speakers, acoustic guitars can have a "strings with no body" effect, like the guitar strings are just being plucked in thin air.  Whereas the same tracks on the Devores sound like they strings are actually resonating the body of the guitar, more like I hear in the presence of a real guitar.  That kind of thing. (How much this has to do with the big woofer/wide baffle design aiming more sound at the listener, I don't know).


One can certainly say "ok, so you like colored sound," but it’s not as simple as that. I don’t actually like obviously-colored sound, in terms of coloration being subjectively obvious. I’m looking for an organic "natural" and realistic sound to my ears. And there are aspects of the Devore speakers that seem to re-create some of the convincing aspects of real life acoustic sounds that I find missing in many other speaker systems.

(It’s sort of why some people like what some horn, or lowther-based speakers do. Yes they are "colored" in some ways, but in other ways they are reproducing some of the aspects of real sounds that can go missing in other types of speakers. So it’s not "I love coloration" so much as "I find THIS aspect of real sounds important and THIS speaker seems to reproduce that aspect more correctly, more convincingly, than others).

Listen, you can like what you like. We all love this hobby, and just like you I have spent the last 40 years listening, and buying, hi-fi gear. I also spent many years in school (and work), learning about the phenomenons that allow us to enjoy music in our home (Electrical and mechanical engineering). It makes it easy to understand what it is that I am hearing. It is actually quite simple, once you understand how things work, and my subjective assessments usually correlate to the objective one.
You can quote JA, saying that:

“…with recordings of solo acoustic piano they get in the way of the music by producing noticeable coloration, the piano’s midrange sounding uneven, with some notes obscured”

and then claim that: 

“With the Devores that (you) often got "that’s a real acoustic guitar or piano...”

I am sure you heard a piano before, so have I. My impressions are with JA, and the extremely poor measurements of these speakers (It is rare of JA to have such harsh criticism). Why we reach different conclusions is a whole nother matter, but I do know that mine exist in reality. In regards to the Devore, I think that JA is extremely polite, in my book, if you can’t do a piano, and the Devore certainly cannot, you can’t really do hi-fi. Yes, you may be able to do Rock and such, but so is a $2000 JBL, or the horrendous (sorry) Devialet phantom, they will “jump” at you like nothing else, and if that is what you like, go for it.

@sciencecop

Ha, love the screenname! If you’d read some of my input into other threads, e.g. my giving the skeptical case in the cables forum, you’d see people probably think I ought to have your screen name :-) If you think I’m arguing that measurements simply don’t matter, I’m not.

I am sure you heard a piano before, so have I.

Yup.

Grew up with, at one point, 4 pianos in our house. (Both parents music teachers/musicians, pianos accumulated from previous family etc). We all played.


I disagree that the Devore speakers "can’t do a piano." I got more of the sense of "real piano" from the Devore speakers from any number of other speakers I listened to, including ones I’m sure you would deem more accurate. (I especially got a more consistent sense of keys upon a resonating sounding board/body, vs the often "piano keys floating in space" effect on many systems).

Now, I’m not saying that "I am right" and that the Devore speakers are "simply better" in some way. Far from it. They certainly ARE compromised in ways, and even in some ways that make them *less accurate* with some piano recordings than another speaker. The problem is most speakers are compromised in some way, and worse, much of the whole reproduced sound chain is a series of compromises. So...we picks our compromises.

Of course some speakers will measure more accurate than others - depending on what you term "accurate."


But once we are talking about the life-like quality of reproduced sound, then it gets more subjective because people often focus on different things, have different criteria, and some speakers do X better, others may do Y. You may hear a system run with classic tube amps and hear it as "less real" because, maybe you focus on the softening of transients, less tight bass, etc. Whereas I may hear it as "more believable" because it sounds less mechanical, richer, softer, more organic, especially for voices.


Ideally, the most accurate-measuring speaker should produce the most accurately realistic sound. IF the recording chain has been controlled so you are starting with an accurate/natural recording.


But given we use our systems to listen to an utter mish-mash of source quality, and source type, THEN it may be the case that some cannily introduced deviations from measured accuracy could, for some listeners, make a greater number of recordings sound more "realistic" and believable. They may be "less accurate" in terms of a measurement goal, but "more accurate" to the listener’s perception in terms of life-like sound. (Or a speaker may emphasize doing something "better" in terms of life-like at the expense of something else - e.g. dynamics over flat frequency response, or some such trade off).


In terms of measurements, I’m sure the Magico A3 (once someone measures it) will look excellent, as most Magicos tend to measure.And yet when I played some well recorded drum tracks on the Magicos, and closed my eyes asking the "does it sound like real drums in front of me?"...they certainly sounded clean and detailed. But it didn’t give me a "real drums" impression. But those same tracks on the Devore speakers, eyes closed, and it just brought the opposite impression - "wow, does that ever capture something very real about what it’s like to sit in front of a drum set!" (Something I’ve had life-long experience listening to).

What I’m getting at is that you seem to be coming from a position where you want to say "What I like is accurate; what you like is colored. If you like colored sound, that’s fine. Just don’t pretend it’s accurate." Which if we are talking about measured accuracy that could be valid (though still with caveats).

And what I’m saying is that once we are talking about listener’s subjective impression of the believability of a system - the "accuracy" to aspects of real sound we are chasing - then the "what I like is accurate; what you like is inaccurate" doesn’t fly so much. Your own subjective impression of the realism of the system does not necessarily trump someone else’s as being "correct."


BTW, have you actually listened to the Devore speakers?

As John Atkinson has often opined in his measurements section, and as many speaker designers will tell you: measurements certainly CAN tell you quite a bit. But given lots of the complexity and variables involved,
you often can’t tell precisely how a speaker will sound and surprises still happen. As, for instance, JA mentions in his measurements section for the Devores - they did some things better in measurements than he would have expected (even given his decades and decades of measuring speakers he can’t simply predict what he’ll get just by knowing the speaker design), and while his measurements predicted *some* aspect of their sound, the Devores ultimately sounded more agreeable and less colored than he expected from his measurements.

Cheers.

In the end, buy what sounds best to YOUR ears.  We all hear differently and we all enjoy our systems differently.  One other thing to note...I find the final sound I enjoy is the synergy of the components, so it might be a good idea to experience the speakers driven by the same sort of amplifier you own, to get a better idea of how they will sound in your home.  I was fortunate enough to hear my speakers driven by my amp (before making the purchase), and have heard them driven by other (very high quality) amps, not as much to my liking.

@prof This is where it gets a bit complicated.

There is a reason you (and many audiophiles) are drawn to this (colored) type of sound; it has a lot to do with how we perceive loudness (see ’Fletcher–Munson’ curves). To compensate for the dynamic limitation of any hi-fi system, many loudspeakers are designed with a certain “boost” factor. It can be a port that makes the bass output more efficient than the rest of the frqs, or in case of the Devore or the Lowther type, the midrange. These can be very entertaining on some recording, but devastating on others. By essentially EQing the sound, you trick the mind to think it is real. The problem is that by doing so, you not only EQing and permanently change the nature of the recorded signal, you also decrease the dynamic range of the speakers (think “Loudness” button on an old Japanese receiver). There is a real price to pay for any of these artificial “excitements”. For instance; if you have a boosted bass, due to the way we perceive loudness (again, see Fletcher–Munson curve), as you increase the volume, the level of boost changes. I am sure you notice that on loud volume, ported systems linearity and resolution diminish (or maybe you didn’t ☹). Not to mention the increase of distortions, non-linearity, spectrum compression, group-delay and many other ill factors I don’t think you will want to be bothered with. Unlike real music, where a specific “boost” ONLY belong to certain instruments or sound "events" (kick drum, trumpet, etc.), in a loudspeaker, the contamination is across the board. It may work on a kick drum but will be a disaster on a human voice (and Piano and basically most acoustic instruments).

Of course, to some, this is what makes it fun, and finding the “right” ancillaries to work with these abnormalities is the essence of our hobby. But, whatever the results may be, ultimately, you are stuck with a very limited, and problematic, outcome. To many this is fine, and like I keep saying, IT IS FINE. BUT, to some, these deficiencies are detrimental to the joy of music listening.

If a speaker measures perfectly flat, as my engineer (non-audiophile) uncle argues with me to this day, it is technically perfect and the best design, period.  I'd bet dollars to doughnuts if most of us heard a ruler flat measuring speaker in our rooms it would sound, um, not good.  There are just too many variables other than measured "neutrality" that affect the sound we ultimately hear in our rooms and with our equipment -- and with our own ears.  In the end, it comes down to personal preferences and interactions with our own rooms and equipment (and music).  So to say it's black and white and one approach is right or wrong is just counterproductive given all the other variables involved.  The OP gives every indication with his words that the Sabrinas sound very "right" to him.  At that point, who really gives a damn how it measures?  They sound "right" to him, and that's ALL that matters.  IMHO. 

BTW, to the OP, two of my three personal favorite speakers are Vandersteen and Joseph Audio (the third being ProAc), but I've never been able to hear them back to back at a dealer, so personally I'd LOVE to hear your impressions of the Quatros versus the Perspectives.  And I think taking a trip to hear the Sabrinas again after hearing those two, presumably with the same music, is a genius move.  I have no doubt that hearing these three speakers will be extremely insightful and result in you making a very confident and "right" decision for YOU.  Really looking forward to what you hear. 

Measuring "perfectly flat" means absolutely nothing. Measuring evenly, relatively linear and smooth ON, and smooth fall-off OFF axis is critical for good performance (some prefer a slight gentle, smooth slop down, 2-3 dB on-axis from 20Hz to 20KHz). Some of the speakers in question here have severe deviation from that.

I've heard most DeVores, and they're all great sounding things with proper gear of course...however, they seem fairly expensive for what they do and are made out of, but people who own 'em swear by them...especially the low powered tube amp crowd (the amps, not the crowd). I'm low powered tuber (the tube amp, not me as I'm real powerful...medicare pays for my gym membership), and get real good (in fact, astonishingly good) sound from Klipsch Heresy IIIs, a relative bargain. Stereophile's Ken Micallef really likes his DeVores and uses them as a reference for reviewing things, but recently provided a nice review of the Heresy IIIs. Horn loaded 99db your sneakers away.

"Measuring "perfectly flat" means absolutely nothing. Measuring evenly, relatively linear and smooth ON, and smooth fall-off OFF axis is critical for good performance (some prefer a slight gentle, smooth slop down, 2-3 dB on-axis from 20Hz to 20KHz). Some of the speakers in question here have severe deviation from that."

@sciencecop -- so, according to your calculations, speakers that deviate from soft 2-3 dB deviation don't sound good?   Can you back this up with any real-world assessments or measurements?

It'd be nice to get this thread back on track.

I failed to mention in my post that I have auditioned the Treo CT and the Quatro Wood CT. McIntosh and Ayre gear were used respectively. For me, neither demo conveyed the emotion and sparkle that the Sabrina does, consistently. I've heard the Sabrina's many times and they never fail to bring joy.

OP, let the speaker that conveys the most emotion be the winner. Don't pay too much attention to specs etc. Just them talk to you and you will know when you have heard "the one". May your ears and heart be your guide. And have fun along the way.

I think you said it best pokey77. Sounds like Sabrina IS your girl ‘kcpellethead’ It is OK to be smitten with this girl. She is a beautiful work of art, not unlike the A3 we now enjoy. Most important thing go for the gear that grabs your emotion. You do that your investment will be one that will provide many years of listening enjoyment😀😎😀🎶🔊🎼

kcpellethead,

I live within 60 miles of KC.  I was just in Saint Louis and went to Music For Pleasure. Nice place, no pressure environment,  but they don't carry the Sabrina, and they aren't big ARC fans, so I guess I'll have to make a road trip to Chicago.

Where did you go in Chi Town to listen?

Thanks 

JD