Wilson Audio Sabrina . . . I'm smitten. Should I consider others?


Went on a small audition trek last week and heard the following:

Tekton Double Impact SE (I was curious based on the posts/comments)
Magico S1 MKII
Magico S3 MKII
Devore Fidelity Orangutan 0/96
Wilson Audio Sabrina

The Wilson Sabrinas were not initially on my list, but when I stumbled across them while searching for Focal Sopra 2s, I couldn't resist.  The Sabrinas were very impressive.  In fact, after hearing the Magico S1 and S3, I went back to hear the Sabrinas a second time to confirm what I had heard.  They were initially driven by the ARC Ref6 preamp and the new ARC $30K monoblocks, but the second trip I asked if they could be driven by more economical equipment, so they used the LS28 and VT80.  The source was the dCS Rossini both times.  Because there was no A/B comparison of equipment, I really didn't notice any drop off in performance.  

The Sabrina's price point is my upper end, but I'd like to achieve a no stone unturned level of search/comfort before I pull the trigger.  Most brands are not easily accessible in Kansas City, but I'm willing to make the effort if justified.  Are there any other loudspeakers I should consider in this range?  I listen mostly to older rock, blues, jazz, and female vocals  Streaming with something like an  Aurender A10 will be my primary source.  My goal is to decide on the loudspeakers for this system, and work backwards into the components.  That'll be a future question.  Appreciate your time and help.
kcpellethead
KCpellethead, you said "smitten", I said "crush". I'm spoiled though in that I work for a HiFi store in Kc called devAAudio. We have the SabrinaX, the Tune Tots, and Sasha DAW's. Soon we will have the Wilson AlexV's on display. Feel free to stop by, we have showroom hours now Tuesday-Friday 1-6, and Saturday 10-3. Hope you can make it,  and if you need help working backwards, maybe we can help there too. 
www.devaaudio.com 
Bri West, devAAudio.
kcpellethead,

I know Mick since 1993. I bought my Spectral and Avalons from him. I the last 2 years, Mick has been to my house to mount cartridge, pickup gear and other things. He has been a good friend since my health issues started. Yes, I listened to a record played on his 'baby' AMG TT, with the optical cartridge he has mounted on it. Even with his HRS racks, the woofers on the Sabrina's were pumping. Must be a mismatch between arm and cartridge. I have heard the optical cartridge on his full size AMG with no problems.

Yes, Mick is a good dealer and Dave has been great, since he came on board.

"Live" is the word that still sticks in our heads for the Sabrina's

There are other dealers and New dealers in the Chicago area. Mick at Quintessence Audio is still one of the best. Audio Consultants lost another store. I think, Evanston is the only one left. I hear Pro Musica lost Mark and moved their location. Have not confirmed this myself yet.

We will see who is at Axpona this year. Ralph (Atmasphere, will not be there because they broke their contract with him.) I have not visited the new dealers in Chicago, due to my health issues and the fact that Mick has been there to help me through these terrible years 
@nkonor - Go see Mick and Dave at Quintessence Audio. They’ll bend over backwards to play your music. While their primary way to demo is streaming, they are definitely analogue guys and have great tables.  This is where I fell in love with Wilson Sabrinas. And I love your one word description . . . “Live”


@stringreen - Have heard well broken in Quattro CTs. Maybe I can hear them at Axpona this weekend. I’d love to hear them. 
I spent Friday and Saturday auditioning speakers. Finally after 14 years of being happy with my Avalons, I hear that it is time for a change. I was a Spectral owner for 20 years. The Spectral gear was great with my Avalons. Now, I sold the Spectral gear. I just got tired of Rick Fryer saying that the new stand alone phonostage was coming and coming and coming. Enough !  I had the Spectral 30SV preamp (magical preamp BTW) but something went wrong and it would not play well with my Manley Steelhead or my Pass XOno. Time to move on. So Pass it is.

Since I have changed almost my entire system, Pass electronics, Two new TTs, brought my DAT tape deck out of storage, having a Teac R2R rebuilt. Looking to replace my 28 year old CDP. My dedicated room is Fully treated with ASC tube traps, Vicoustic, Acoustic and GIK diffussors. Sounds better then ever. Thought that, I should at least listen and consider new speakers. What an eye/ear opener the last 2 days were.

I had wanted to listen to Rockports for the last 2 years and saw my chance at a dealer that I did not know in Chicago. By Appointment Only.
Saw his Ad. Well Rockports have great tone, Zero imaging. Rockports are off the list. Paradigm, beryllium Tweet and Mids, and alloy woofs, just too bright and forward for me. Focal, Sopras 2 and 3, Very Good, Maybe the best. My wife and I came away, being most impressed by Wilson, Sabrinas. The word that kept coming out of us was; LIVE !  After, Axpona this coming weekend, we should know or be very close to a home audition and final decision.

Wilson Sabrina - Live is the word stuck in our minds.

The other thing, that came up with the auditions, Streaming Only ! No CDPs, no TTs. Streaming Only. Yes, It does sound good but when the dealer says you can listen to anything you want and then cannot produce it. How disappointing, especially when you brought your music on CDs and vinyl, and they could not play those either. We were so impressed with the new world order. Lots of apologies that they could not produce the music but also that the music that they could call up, was not the HI Res or whatever they thought they could. I am Sorry, is getting to be meaningless everywhere. The grocery store, Audio Auditions, ADT security, Xfinity home cable and internet, the hospital. You name it. I am sorry seems to be a good excuse everywhere these days. Does not mean that you will get a break on your bill, Just that they said that they were sorry. And pay your bill on time or you'll be sorry. 

Wilson Sabrina - Live.
I have a bad case of analysis paralysis. Three or four pair of speakers were added to my list to audition, that are proving difficult to hear. I hope to remedy this with a trip to AXPONA next week, although the Sabrina are still my favorite. 
6 months since your last update, did you settle on a pair of speakers? Personally been trying to upgrade from a 15 year old pair of speakers for about 5 years now really gave me an appreciation and understanding for the law of diminishing returns! 
Jump on a pair of Magico S3MK2 asap they sound wonderful or save cash and get Magico A3.Good luck!!

Great stuff.  What a list of speakers!

Your quest sounds like my quest that I've written about in my own thread.   I sometimes go through obsessively exhaustive searches when I'm going to replace a pair of speakers. 

Looking forward to hearing about your final auditions and your choice.


Auditioned two more from my list, the Magnepan 20.7 and the Legacy Aries. Was also able to hear the Magico A3, albeit not yet fully broken in. Auditioned the Maggies in a less than desirable situation. Small room with the speakers only spread about 7’ and seating just about 6’ away, plus Roon lost connection so many times that I lost count. Made it difficult to concentrate. I would really love to hear these properly set up and ideal circumstances, because as is, they don’t make the top five.

The Legacy Aries audition was similar. The dealer is not moving forward with their Legacy line and so the Aries had been removed from their set ups. They were hastily reset and connected. I won’t bore you with the details, but as much as I wanted to love these, I expected to love these, but it was not to be based on this audition. We also heard some Audio Physics loudspeakers with Zesto components and a complete Gold Note rig. Both sounded better, with some really great sound from Gold Note, although asethitically the walnut GN were not my cup of tea.

Finally, heard the Magico A3 with an Octiv integrated and a Lumin streamer. Simple system and the A3 really surprised me, although they have not yet fully broken in. Honestly, I liked them better than the S1MKII. The were articulate with better base extension and had a really meaty midrange.

Nothing has Yet to unseat the Wilson Sabrina so far. Next week I hope to hear the Vandersteen Quattro CT and Joseph Audio Perspective with some Ayre equipment. I really want to love something from my local dealer. I’d also like to hear the PAP Quintet15 with the horns, and I’d like to see if I could get down south to hear the JA Pearl 3. Then it will be done and I’ll have exhausted my search and feel good about my decision.
I have 3.5s which I just had rebuilt, so older.  They work great with a Rythmik sub, but they really are a speaker people tend to love or hate.  Generally people who like Maggies like Vandersteens also.  I also found the new Revel F36 to sound really good (used a pair while my Maggies were being rebuilt).  The older Salons were also good sounding, haven’t heard the newer midline, but always like Kevin Vocks designs from when he was at Snell. 
@mcreyn 

Great points.  I especially need to burn a CD as I've relied on a Tidal playlist and encountered two dealers that couldn't access Tidal when I went to audition.  

Which Maggies do you have now?
My two cents:

1)  Speakers are very personal, there are speakers on your list I do not like, and some I love, but all of them are well regarded, so it really has to do with what you like best.  

2)  It is really, really, really hard to compare speakers from dealer to dealer.  Dealer showrooms all sound different, and in turn your room will make the speakers sound different.  I have used Magnepans for 20+ years.  I have heard them sound terrible in dealer rooms more times than good, and had I not heard them well set up, would have never tried them.  

3)  I am a big mail order person and like buying used.  You are in the situation where I think spending the extra money on a local dealer is well worth it.  It needs to be a dealer that is willing to help you setup and dial in your speakers, as well match equipment, and be able to provide demos in your house.  You are spending a lot, it should be optimized.  

4)  I would burn a CD with a variety of music you listen too, including poorly mixed music.  Use this for your demos for consistency.  It will also help you evaluate whether a potential speaker is livable with less than well recorded music.  
kcpellethead-
Yep,  I am hip.   Mention the dealers/retailers visited in your travels.
Happy Listening!
@jafant 

Nope.  I had to travel to hear almost everything.  I travel for work anyway.
kcpelletheaddo you guys have Audio dealers/retailers in your area?Looking forward in reading your review of the Joseph Audio Pearl 3.
Happy Listening!
more variables and auditions are not going to help, especially with no reference back to live music. Nobody got fired for buying Wilson and it sounds like you have a willing and supportive dealer....

@soix 

I completely understand what you're saying.  First, I'm no audiophile.  I don't know exactly what I like until I hear it.  Also, I'm learning to be a little frustrated with some auditions.  It's clear that some folks know exactly what to do and how to do it, and others do not.  As with many things in life, a good audition of a less product goes along way compared to a bad audition of a good product.  When I started this, I really didn't know what to expect, and while I'm a long way from having a great understanding of it all, I've learned just enough to know when it's a good audition.  
That you preferred the B&Ws to the Perspectives or Quattros has me a little stunned.  I was able to listen to several B&W and JA speakers in the same system, and there wasn't anything the B&Ws did better than the JAs, especially imaging and soundstage.  Obviously we all hear differently and there are likely lots of variables here, but wow.  Be very interested in your impressions of the Pearl 3s.  Only heard them at shows, but they're one of my very few end-game speakers.  You've got a really great list of speakers here, and I look forward to any other observations you have. 
The plot thickens a bit.  Heard the Sabrinas again (fourth time) at the original audio dealer. They haven't lost anything for me.  Also auditioned the Revel PerformaBe F228BE elsewhere. They surprised me (in a good way). Visited Legacy Audio to hear the Focus XD.  Instead heard the Focus SE and really liked what I heard.  Despite having some internet issues, the Focus sounded promising, and Bill and Brice were great.  Returning home, I researched Legacy Audio and Focus.  Most say to hear/consider the Aeris instead.  I should have been better prepared.  So, here's what I've now listened to, ranked favorite to least, and what I'd like to hear before a final decision is made:

Wilson Audio Sabrina

Legacy Audio Focus SE

Bowers & Wilkins 802 D3

Joseph Audio Perspective

Magico S3 MKII

Vandersteen Quattro CT

Revel PerformaBe F228Be

Magico S1 MKII

DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/96

Tekton Double Impact SE


Left to hear:

Legacy Audio Aeris

Magnepan 20.7

Joseph Audio Pearl 3

Focal Sopra 2 or Sopra 3


Any constructive input is welcomed.  I really want to get this right.  I'm not going to rush.
The most recent great sounding speakers I’ve owned do measure perfectly flat, if measuring the outside cabinet walls, all of which are perfectly flat except the speaker baffle that has the speakers stuck into it...flat...all flat. Note that the curved cabinets of some speakers are not flat...they measure more curvy than otherwise.
I have the A3  in my system for about a week now. I am playing it with the Pass INT-250. All I can say is WOW! They have much more bass then the S1 (of course they are 3-way), and they go much deeper than the Sabrina. The Sabrinas are warmer, but also fuzzier (definitely not more define), after sometime I got tired of it. It is true, everything sounds OK, but never exceptional, and also kind of the same. The Sabrina is not as transparent as the A3.

kcpellethead,

Don’t forget if you aren’t happy with the Perspective’s sound at first (tonal balance or whatever) to experiment with seating distance, spread, toe in etc.

Due to their crossover/driver design, they remain very coherent even up close so you can sit closer to the JA speakers than some of the other designs you are looking at.

As I said, I doubt they will supplant the Wilson speakers for you, but you’ll probably notice some nice aspects to the Perspective’s sound. Their sense of detail tends to not come from pushing detail at you so much as just being clean and clear. The exact nature of hall ambiences, reverbs used in recordings etc really comes through on the Perspectives due to their "low haze" factor.   (Of course if you sit too far from any speaker, even the perspectives, the reflected room sound can overwhelm such a feature in a speaker).

@prof 

Reading your description of the desirable properties of the Joseph Audio gets me excited to hear them.  My appointment is tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks for the info kcpellethead, 

I'm hoping to get up that way before the baseball season is over and to check out an audio store or three.

JD
The Devore O/96 requires a fairly large listening space and the ability to sit a reasonable distance from the speakers. They do fine along the long wall of my16 by 21 room about 9 feet from my seat, but they sounded even better in the dealer's room, which was twice the size. Obviously speakers are a very personal experience, as evidence by some of the reactions in this thread to the Devore. I've owned about 20 brands of speakers and the O/96 is by far my favorite.
kcpellethead,

I’m looking forward to your view of the JA Perspective speakers. I believe I’ll be ordering a pair soon after an extensive bunch of speaker auditioning. But then, they fit the criteria I’m juggling, one of which is to downsize from a larger speaker due to my listening space. The Perspectives are designed to sound bigger than they look, especially in terms of bass, but I still doubt they will upend your desire for the Sabrinas, given you seem pretty smitten. (And I’d think the Sabrinas by sound more authoritatively larger).

The main thing that grabs me about the Joseph Audio sound is the purity of tone, the utter lack of any grain or electronic haze. Instrumental tone and timbre just seems to come through like looking at colorful pebbles and flora through a perfectly clean stream. If something like that grabs me, I find it hard to give it up.
@twoleftears 

I think I may already know the answer, but I will audition Vandersteen Quattro CTs and Jospeh Audio Perspectives early this week. I’d like to hear Focal Sopra 2s and I wish I’d had a better audition of DeVore 0/96s. The Sabrinas just do everything I want in a way that appeals to me. 
@curiosjim

Visited Mike Kaye at Audio Archon to hear the Tekton Double Impact SE. Listened to the Magicos with Jamie Pauls at F1 Audio. Auditioned the Wilson Sabrinas with David Weintraub and Mick Survance at Quintessence Audio. Drove a little out of my way going home to visit Charley Schnyder at Stereo Haven to hear the DeVore Fidelity 0/96. Everyone was polite, professional, and gracious. They all represented the audio industry extremely well. I would not hesitate to do business with any of them. 
Post removed 
kcpellethead,

I live within 60 miles of KC.  I was just in Saint Louis and went to Music For Pleasure. Nice place, no pressure environment,  but they don't carry the Sabrina, and they aren't big ARC fans, so I guess I'll have to make a road trip to Chicago.

Where did you go in Chi Town to listen?

Thanks 

JD
I think you said it best pokey77. Sounds like Sabrina IS your girl ‘kcpellethead’ It is OK to be smitten with this girl. She is a beautiful work of art, not unlike the A3 we now enjoy. Most important thing go for the gear that grabs your emotion. You do that your investment will be one that will provide many years of listening enjoyment😀😎😀🎶🔊🎼
I failed to mention in my post that I have auditioned the Treo CT and the Quatro Wood CT. McIntosh and Ayre gear were used respectively. For me, neither demo conveyed the emotion and sparkle that the Sabrina does, consistently. I've heard the Sabrina's many times and they never fail to bring joy.

OP, let the speaker that conveys the most emotion be the winner. Don't pay too much attention to specs etc. Just them talk to you and you will know when you have heard "the one". May your ears and heart be your guide. And have fun along the way.
"Measuring "perfectly flat" means absolutely nothing. Measuring evenly, relatively linear and smooth ON, and smooth fall-off OFF axis is critical for good performance (some prefer a slight gentle, smooth slop down, 2-3 dB on-axis from 20Hz to 20KHz). Some of the speakers in question here have severe deviation from that."

@sciencecop -- so, according to your calculations, speakers that deviate from soft 2-3 dB deviation don't sound good?   Can you back this up with any real-world assessments or measurements?


I've heard most DeVores, and they're all great sounding things with proper gear of course...however, they seem fairly expensive for what they do and are made out of, but people who own 'em swear by them...especially the low powered tube amp crowd (the amps, not the crowd). I'm low powered tuber (the tube amp, not me as I'm real powerful...medicare pays for my gym membership), and get real good (in fact, astonishingly good) sound from Klipsch Heresy IIIs, a relative bargain. Stereophile's Ken Micallef really likes his DeVores and uses them as a reference for reviewing things, but recently provided a nice review of the Heresy IIIs. Horn loaded 99db your sneakers away.
Measuring "perfectly flat" means absolutely nothing. Measuring evenly, relatively linear and smooth ON, and smooth fall-off OFF axis is critical for good performance (some prefer a slight gentle, smooth slop down, 2-3 dB on-axis from 20Hz to 20KHz). Some of the speakers in question here have severe deviation from that.
If a speaker measures perfectly flat, as my engineer (non-audiophile) uncle argues with me to this day, it is technically perfect and the best design, period.  I'd bet dollars to doughnuts if most of us heard a ruler flat measuring speaker in our rooms it would sound, um, not good.  There are just too many variables other than measured "neutrality" that affect the sound we ultimately hear in our rooms and with our equipment -- and with our own ears.  In the end, it comes down to personal preferences and interactions with our own rooms and equipment (and music).  So to say it's black and white and one approach is right or wrong is just counterproductive given all the other variables involved.  The OP gives every indication with his words that the Sabrinas sound very "right" to him.  At that point, who really gives a damn how it measures?  They sound "right" to him, and that's ALL that matters.  IMHO. 

BTW, to the OP, two of my three personal favorite speakers are Vandersteen and Joseph Audio (the third being ProAc), but I've never been able to hear them back to back at a dealer, so personally I'd LOVE to hear your impressions of the Quatros versus the Perspectives.  And I think taking a trip to hear the Sabrinas again after hearing those two, presumably with the same music, is a genius move.  I have no doubt that hearing these three speakers will be extremely insightful and result in you making a very confident and "right" decision for YOU.  Really looking forward to what you hear. 
@prof This is where it gets a bit complicated.

There is a reason you (and many audiophiles) are drawn to this (colored) type of sound; it has a lot to do with how we perceive loudness (see ’Fletcher–Munson’ curves). To compensate for the dynamic limitation of any hi-fi system, many loudspeakers are designed with a certain “boost” factor. It can be a port that makes the bass output more efficient than the rest of the frqs, or in case of the Devore or the Lowther type, the midrange. These can be very entertaining on some recording, but devastating on others. By essentially EQing the sound, you trick the mind to think it is real. The problem is that by doing so, you not only EQing and permanently change the nature of the recorded signal, you also decrease the dynamic range of the speakers (think “Loudness” button on an old Japanese receiver). There is a real price to pay for any of these artificial “excitements”. For instance; if you have a boosted bass, due to the way we perceive loudness (again, see Fletcher–Munson curve), as you increase the volume, the level of boost changes. I am sure you notice that on loud volume, ported systems linearity and resolution diminish (or maybe you didn’t ☹). Not to mention the increase of distortions, non-linearity, spectrum compression, group-delay and many other ill factors I don’t think you will want to be bothered with. Unlike real music, where a specific “boost” ONLY belong to certain instruments or sound "events" (kick drum, trumpet, etc.), in a loudspeaker, the contamination is across the board. It may work on a kick drum but will be a disaster on a human voice (and Piano and basically most acoustic instruments).

Of course, to some, this is what makes it fun, and finding the “right” ancillaries to work with these abnormalities is the essence of our hobby. But, whatever the results may be, ultimately, you are stuck with a very limited, and problematic, outcome. To many this is fine, and like I keep saying, IT IS FINE. BUT, to some, these deficiencies are detrimental to the joy of music listening.
In the end, buy what sounds best to YOUR ears.  We all hear differently and we all enjoy our systems differently.  One other thing to note...I find the final sound I enjoy is the synergy of the components, so it might be a good idea to experience the speakers driven by the same sort of amplifier you own, to get a better idea of how they will sound in your home.  I was fortunate enough to hear my speakers driven by my amp (before making the purchase), and have heard them driven by other (very high quality) amps, not as much to my liking.

@sciencecop

Ha, love the screenname! If you’d read some of my input into other threads, e.g. my giving the skeptical case in the cables forum, you’d see people probably think I ought to have your screen name :-) If you think I’m arguing that measurements simply don’t matter, I’m not.


I am sure you heard a piano before, so have I.


Yup.

Grew up with, at one point, 4 pianos in our house. (Both parents music teachers/musicians, pianos accumulated from previous family etc). We all played.


I disagree that the Devore speakers "can’t do a piano." I got more of the sense of "real piano" from the Devore speakers from any number of other speakers I listened to, including ones I’m sure you would deem more accurate. (I especially got a more consistent sense of keys upon a resonating sounding board/body, vs the often "piano keys floating in space" effect on many systems).

Now, I’m not saying that "I am right" and that the Devore speakers are "simply better" in some way. Far from it. They certainly ARE compromised in ways, and even in some ways that make them *less accurate* with some piano recordings than another speaker. The problem is most speakers are compromised in some way, and worse, much of the whole reproduced sound chain is a series of compromises. So...we picks our compromises.

Of course some speakers will measure more accurate than others - depending on what you term "accurate."


But once we are talking about the life-like quality of reproduced sound, then it gets more subjective because people often focus on different things, have different criteria, and some speakers do X better, others may do Y. You may hear a system run with classic tube amps and hear it as "less real" because, maybe you focus on the softening of transients, less tight bass, etc. Whereas I may hear it as "more believable" because it sounds less mechanical, richer, softer, more organic, especially for voices.


Ideally, the most accurate-measuring speaker should produce the most accurately realistic sound. IF the recording chain has been controlled so you are starting with an accurate/natural recording.


But given we use our systems to listen to an utter mish-mash of source quality, and source type, THEN it may be the case that some cannily introduced deviations from measured accuracy could, for some listeners, make a greater number of recordings sound more "realistic" and believable. They may be "less accurate" in terms of a measurement goal, but "more accurate" to the listener’s perception in terms of life-like sound. (Or a speaker may emphasize doing something "better" in terms of life-like at the expense of something else - e.g. dynamics over flat frequency response, or some such trade off).


In terms of measurements, I’m sure the Magico A3 (once someone measures it) will look excellent, as most Magicos tend to measure.And yet when I played some well recorded drum tracks on the Magicos, and closed my eyes asking the "does it sound like real drums in front of me?"...they certainly sounded clean and detailed. But it didn’t give me a "real drums" impression. But those same tracks on the Devore speakers, eyes closed, and it just brought the opposite impression - "wow, does that ever capture something very real about what it’s like to sit in front of a drum set!" (Something I’ve had life-long experience listening to).

What I’m getting at is that you seem to be coming from a position where you want to say "What I like is accurate; what you like is colored. If you like colored sound, that’s fine. Just don’t pretend it’s accurate." Which if we are talking about measured accuracy that could be valid (though still with caveats).

And what I’m saying is that once we are talking about listener’s subjective impression of the believability of a system - the "accuracy" to aspects of real sound we are chasing - then the "what I like is accurate; what you like is inaccurate" doesn’t fly so much. Your own subjective impression of the realism of the system does not necessarily trump someone else’s as being "correct."


BTW, have you actually listened to the Devore speakers?

As John Atkinson has often opined in his measurements section, and as many speaker designers will tell you: measurements certainly CAN tell you quite a bit. But given lots of the complexity and variables involved,
you often can’t tell precisely how a speaker will sound and surprises still happen. As, for instance, JA mentions in his measurements section for the Devores - they did some things better in measurements than he would have expected (even given his decades and decades of measuring speakers he can’t simply predict what he’ll get just by knowing the speaker design), and while his measurements predicted *some* aspect of their sound, the Devores ultimately sounded more agreeable and less colored than he expected from his measurements.

Cheers.
Listen, you can like what you like. We all love this hobby, and just like you I have spent the last 40 years listening, and buying, hi-fi gear. I also spent many years in school (and work), learning about the phenomenons that allow us to enjoy music in our home (Electrical and mechanical engineering). It makes it easy to understand what it is that I am hearing. It is actually quite simple, once you understand how things work, and my subjective assessments usually correlate to the objective one.
You can quote JA, saying that:

“…with recordings of solo acoustic piano they get in the way of the music by producing noticeable coloration, the piano’s midrange sounding uneven, with some notes obscured”
and then claim that: 
“With the Devores that (you) often got "that’s a real acoustic guitar or piano...”

I am sure you heard a piano before, so have I. My impressions are with JA, and the extremely poor measurements of these speakers (It is rare of JA to have such harsh criticism). Why we reach different conclusions is a whole nother matter, but I do know that mine exist in reality. In regards to the Devore, I think that JA is extremely polite, in my book, if you can’t do a piano, and the Devore certainly cannot, you can’t really do hi-fi. Yes, you may be able to do Rock and such, but so is a $2000 JBL, or the horrendous (sorry) Devialet phantom, they will “jump” at you like nothing else, and if that is what you like, go for it.

sciencecop,

Sure, the Devores don’t measure as linear as some other speakers. (Though not as bad as some either). But....

Note that even JA after measuring and then listening in his place, stated:

Even though I knew about the low-treble resonance and the lively enclosure, these problems were considerably less audible than I was expecting. Only with recordings of solo acoustic piano did they get in the way of the music by producing noticeable coloration, the piano’s midrange sounding uneven, with some notes obscured. But with well-recorded rock and classical vocal recordings, the measured problems seemed to step into the background, letting me appreciate the O/96’s full-range, evenly balanced sound and superb clarity.



And that’s what I hear from the Devores. They do an amazingly canny job of combining an old-school like richness and warmth, with an open and sparkly sounding top end. The result, to my ears, is that many instruments actually end up sounding more convincing through the Devores than on many other speakers,.   I usually find reproduced sound reductive - most acoustic sources sound thinned out and electronic.   The Devores seem to "give back" some of the heft and body in an instrument.   I played plenty of the same tracks, with instruments of many types, through speakers like Magico, Paradigm Persona, Focal, Revel, and many others, and it was through the Devores that I often got a "that’s a real acoustic guitar or piano...and especially drum set" impression. They also have a great "boogie" factor where the rhythm of whatever a drummer is doing just reaches out and grabs me. In contrast, a lot of rhythmic music I played on, for instance, the Magico A3 (sure to measure more linear), just sort of "sat there" in a less involving way.   On many speakers, acoustic guitars can have a "strings with no body" effect, like the guitar strings are just being plucked in thin air.  Whereas the same tracks on the Devores sound like they strings are actually resonating the body of the guitar, more like I hear in the presence of a real guitar.  That kind of thing. (How much this has to do with the big woofer/wide baffle design aiming more sound at the listener, I don't know).


One can certainly say "ok, so you like colored sound," but it’s not as simple as that. I don’t actually like obviously-colored sound, in terms of coloration being subjectively obvious. I’m looking for an organic "natural" and realistic sound to my ears. And there are aspects of the Devore speakers that seem to re-create some of the convincing aspects of real life acoustic sounds that I find missing in many other speaker systems.

(It’s sort of why some people like what some horn, or lowther-based speakers do. Yes they are "colored" in some ways, but in other ways they are reproducing some of the aspects of real sounds that can go missing in other types of speakers. So it’s not "I love coloration" so much as "I find THIS aspect of real sounds important and THIS speaker seems to reproduce that aspect more correctly, more convincingly, than others).



The DeVore are some of the most colored loudspeakers out there. Their top-end in-room response is dramatically shelved down, and their prominent midrange is riding everything else. (https://www.stereophile.com/content/devore-fidelity-orangutan-o96-loudspeaker-measurements). They will be more suitable as a guitar amp then a hi-fi speaker. To claim that they are more open or transparent than a Magico is a bridge too far (several bridges, actually).

However, obviously, they do appeal to some, and you may very well like them.
@prof 

This disappoints me. The 0/96 were a mere 5' apart and the hot seat was about 5' away from them.  I knew it as soon as I took a seat, but that was all this room would allow.  Your response makes me feel like I should find a way to give them another shake before making a final decision.  Have you listened to the Wilson Sabrina?

kcpellethead,
FWIW:

I've auditioned the Devore speakers numerous times now, and have found that the right distance is pretty critical.  I have to be 8 feet back at least, at which point they snap in to focus both tonally, coherence, and soundstaging.  Sit closer and it seems the sound starts to compromise - the highs start to roll off a bit, they are a bit less open and snappy, less coherent, etc.

I also love the way the Devore's look over many other techno-speakers.