@immatthewj kind of hard not to have that stupid old fool in your head
Aw, @jerryg123 don’t be so hard on Dementia Donnie! Ha ha!
Why should audiophile deniers be allowed on an audiophile forum?
Why should we be subjected to audiophile deniers, on a site dedicated to audio?
It’s antithetical to the hobby and adds nothing to the pursuit. I want to quote something from another thread.
@djones51 wrote "exposing bull products like "audiophile switches, cables, fuses " and other highly questionable devices that serve no purpose"
What then, is the purpose of people with this agenda being on this site? To “expose bull products.” It’s fine for someone to post they tried a product and it didn’t work for them, but to dismiss entire product categories is not a discussion that belongs on an enthusiast forum.
Would a car enthusiast site stand for this type of post?
Try going on a Porsche forum, just for example, and posting that your Mustang is just as fast 0-60 and that others poster’s claims about their driving experience is “dubious.” See how long that will be tolerated
There are plenty of sites to poke fun at audiophile’s obsession with cables, power conditioners etc. Why does it belong here, especially when we can’t mute specific posters?
What’s next? Arguing that speakers that measure the same must sound the same and that we are all suckers for buying expensive speakers? I thought we got rid of trolling?
Isn’t it obvious with all the ASR related posts here lately we are being trolled?
A couple of months back I read a post here about someone that ordered a new cat8 cable from China. I tried it and posted back my fantastic results for others to benefit.
Personally that’s the kind of forum I’m interested in, not to come here to be challenged about what I hear and that since it can’t be measured so it must be “dubious.”
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I’m pleased to see so many people advocating free speech. I’m so sick and tired of both sides of the aisle trying to destroy this crucial tenet of a free society. Everybody’s in favor of free speech until that speech runs contrary to their personal beliefs. It doesn’t work that way. It’s the seemingly innocuous apologia that starts with, “free speech is applicable to blank for blah-blah-blah-reason, but in this instance we should blah-blah-blah…” that creates the type of permissiveness that leads to the absence of free speech on a much broader and more destructive level. Obviously, at that time it’s already too late. Again, I’m pleased to see people here who understand that and advocate free speech. |
letting guys come and say they think such and such sucks doesn't bother me. in my humble opinion the key to a good time is simply not caring. i don't take opinions that i find stupid seriously, and i genuinely enjoy mocking the people who insist that i do (not here though. i am mostly here to learn and probably buy at some point. also, have you guys checked out the what's on your turntable thread? i've gotten so many good recs for music i don't know anything about over there. killer thread.) but yeah i think showing up somewhere and telling strangers that you know what they hear better than they do because of charts is a great example of the type of behavior everyone can simply ignore, as opposed to agonizing over it. it simply does not matter, enjoy your stereo 👍 |
Quite so. Criticism - made in good faith, perhaps with a splash of humour, and to the best of one's abilities - is fundamental to this privilege. |
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It’s depressing to watch so many people dig their own grave. If I advocate censorship, and contribute to a precedent being set that silences those who opinions I dislike, that precedent can be used to censor me. I’m contributing to my own loss of freedoms by advocating censorship. I’m digging my own grave. I will be crying when I am disallowed my right to voice my opinion. This ain’t rocket science. It kills me watching so many people, from both sides of the aisle, eagerly advocating the erosion of our democracy.
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Amazing on how many have a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of "free speech". Because of that, it's abused to the point where it no longer resembles it's original concept. Now it's just used as a battering ram for trolls, idiots and those that wish to deceive, incite and insult with abandon. All the best, |
Save for direct appeal to murder there is one concept of free speech well described by Voltaire: «I disagree with you but i am ready to die for your right to say what you wanted to say» Any other concept is open door for censorship... Only fanatic want to limit for their own kind the free speech of others... We cannot muzzle idiots but we can only educate them...
«Education begin with silent listening of everybody, even idiot, we can wait and speak after them»-Anonymus free thinker
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So let me get this clear, @mahgister , you think it's perfectly OK, or at the least should be permitted, for person A to recommend to person B to drink bleach or inject themselves with it to cure covid, and then if person B is foolish enough to believe, then, well, damn the consequences. |
Perhaps because you are intelligent, i dont doubt this, you must read ALL my post content, not the part that suit your interpretation... I said we must let someone even stupid say what he want to say FIRST, in the CONTEXT of a general discussion, and AFTER we can correct it and oppose his "idiotic" suggestion to inject bleach... do you catch it? If we censor him where this censorship will stop? and why censoring just him why not all other idiots? who will decide who is an idiot? you? I am sure that with an hour of reflection at your disposal you will understand WHY this is better to let speak freely people way better than let SOME INSTANCES decide what is idiotic, irrational, or forbidden or taboo FOR OUR OWN SAKE...
For example on this audio forum i am happy that it is not you who decide which audio device is useless and which is useful, guess why? I am pretty sure that you are happy that in this forum it is not me that decide which audio device is useless and which is useful... Then in this free speech audio forum you can speak your mind and me too... Anyway i wish you the best.... it is useless to muzzle people and stupid to insult them also...Between this two there is free polite speech... But sometimes "insults" and sarcasm are the price to pay...
Now i forgot to say that in your post you attribute falsely to me the idea that i was ENDORSING the Trump recommendation to take bleach if i dont want to muzzle Trump at all cost, but i endorse his right to free speech, not the recommendation made by the last idiot who can speak his mind in a free society and public context to drink bleach ... Do you catch here what the greek called a "sophism" in your criticizing of my post argument ? Voltaire cannot be condemned because he will let Trump speak first before answering to his stupid proposition... Imagine now that i am Voltaire...is it clearer?
In a discussion, intelligence is not something we own, but something we each of us lend to the poor and borrow to the rich, the greek call it : dialogos, the way toward the LOGOS... Wisdom may emerge between free man.... my best to you... 😁😊
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I am presuming that since you continue to frequent this forum that you have inwardly digested the guidelines to membership as laid down by the owners of the forum, and in doing so agree to abide by those guidelines. I am curious regarding your standpoint over the conduct of previous members whom the Owner/Admin/moderators of this forum have concluded to have breached those guidelines and have sanctioned them by removing that persons posting privileges on their forum. Only for such a sanctioned person to then stick the middle finger up at that governing body , create a new and disparate membership account whilst also attempting , rather badly, to assume another persona in order to frequent this forum against the wishes of the owner/admin.
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I try to act in the best way possible and i try to not judge people...And i speak my mind for each SPECIFIC post i answer to without hating anyone.. (save for some intense emotional response sometimes for sure i am human 😊) I am not perfect for sure... but i will not answer your question... it is not up to me to write, decide in place of the moderators here, but it is my own personal decision to accept to interact with ALL people here ... I try to interact in the best possible way with people... Then count me out if you want my vote for censorship...I try to appreciate EVERYONE here... And i prefer to let you or the moderators track people behaviour ... It is not my hobby... my best to you....
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A most diplomatic answer @mahgister since we both know who we are refering to. I will respect your position to be somewhat of the swerve that it is. |
I'd sure hate to be a moderator these days, damned if you do and damned if you don't. Human's sometimes can't tolerate other's free speech, and perhaps this with good cause. Intentionally provoking anger in others has been shown to lead to violent acts. Do we really want this? I'll take the moderation over the uncivil few. |
If someone is your friend...And if someone is banned for whatever reason by the moderators will you stop to speak to him? it is not a diplomatic answer...I speak my mind politely thats all... It is not your business if i speak to someone or not or for what reason... And the manual or guideline of audiogon is less important to me than the gospel wisdom... Thanks to you to respect my freedom and the freedom of others...
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“ If someone is your friend...And if someone is banned for whatever reason by the moderators will you stop to speak to him?“ The point being should your hypothetical ‘Friend’ circumvent the consequence of their previous behaviour in the forum owners ‘House’ you are quite comfortable with this arrangement here?
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I am not appointed by someone to judge anyone here... Mind your business...I spoke to everyone here even to you...Spare me your implicit "judgement"... There is no "point" here save your inquisition in my own affair... Thanks
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On online audio forum. It may be an ultimately trivial thing, but the kind of thinking that becomes accepted in such corners, any corner of the world, the kind of thinking where it’s accepted to simply silence people for bad thoughts, is a bad omen for the future. I could provide a litany of thoughts that are not only ignorant, stupid and flat-out wrong, but also dangerous and harmful. It would please me to no end if such thinking magically disappeared forever. Of course, no matter how much I wish for bad ideas to go away, they will not. They’ve been around since the beginning of man and will persist until the end of time. It’s simply a far worse play in the long-term to start censoring people than to use your voice to bring logic and truth into the fray. |
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Censoring certain classes of people certainly troublesome and something totalitarian societies do. Still, I don't have a problem with censoring certain individuals who continually and constantly intentionally provoke anger which may lead to violence. Yes, its difficult to prove intent, and cause and effect to any single post or statement that resulted in violence, but we do see an upsurge in violence attributed to social media.
The other thing that seems rather ironic in all the worries about upholding free speech at any cost is all the self censoring that goes on today. Partisan divisions seem wider and deeper than ever. Class censorship is what I'm worried about, partisan intolerance may bring this to pass, I see it taking hold already. |
@sns that is the the justification that the Communisty party in China uses. No really, they do. That said, this place is better than daytime TV. Drama, intrigue, impersonation, factions, people out to get each other .... it is high art even if the stereos are not. |
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China was a self censoring society for millenias... They invented diplomacy....because they prefered to integrate in their midst invaders and make commercial alliance than brutal imperialism like Romans did... Cina was many kingdom in an already large territory seeking unity, tome was a village seeking expansion...
Us we are younger, and dont wanted this self censorship, which is installed now in North America... It begin in plain sight with our imitation of china politic and social method in the pandemy ... Some forces are unelected over andbehind our "apparent " democracies now... With self censorship, free speech is condemned...The same self censorship destroyed the Soviet Empire he was already in ruins when Reagan give it a push...... We are contaminated now by forces of power and control behind the door of elected poeople, this was so decades ago but now it is visible in plain sight...
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Obviously you confused americanized democratic Taiwan, with old continental imperial China... And it is not necessary to travel in a Hilton hotel in british Hong Kong or Taiwan to know that the self censorship is not only linked to the political power traditionally present which weight over their head for millenias but ALSO to the power of the family who is a powerful hierarchised extensive clanic affair with very precise rules of interaction. .. And reading Confucius ethic is better than eating burger in Hilton hotel with some modernized chinese engineer to learn culture and inconscious collective archetypes ruling them ...Sorry... 😁😊 I spoke here about the general culture not about some modern chinese individuals you meet in their modern business buildings ...they are like us they want freedom...but their culture, history and backgrounds differ completely... Self censorship is more heavy in SOME traditionalist society, it is an anthropological fact...The free individual with his free speech right is an invention of modern European times... Even if there has been always through history some revendication of freedom... The history of Spartacus in the Roman times is interesting for example... Revendication by chineese people now dont erase completely their traditional "etiquette" and social submission generally coming from a long programmed history ...With one billion and more people and more than 3 millenias of history, and high culture, china has many habits and customs that implicate more self censorship than what are accustomed north Americans in particular ... In a word chinese has invented everything technological way before europeans most of the times till the 17 th century, but a chinese Freud for example could not exist why? Answer this and you will understand what i spoke about...
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You are right for sure and i only hope you will not hate me for my bad habit... Happy easter night
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I see your propensity for being wrong extends to other topics. How many years of your life have you spent in China or Taiwan? Taiwan is culturally "old China". Mainland China is but a shadow with most real Chinese culture lost through communism. Taiwan has spent more time as a modern nation than the mainland and you may incorrectly view that as Americanized, but that is a statement based on ignorance. Taiwan is no more "Americanized" than any other Asian nation, arguably less.
You really need to spend more time reading about Chinese history before writing about it on the internet. There simply is not truth in this statement. Some dynasties emphasized trade (while building great armies), others conquered. The only difference is China has always been at some level isolationist. The Chinese people are not so much self policed, certainly not throughout history, as policed, ruled under tight control, likely because they are strong minded and not individualistic.
Most modern Chinese, in their modern business building have less attachment or even feeling for their past culture than Western people do. They know of their history, but it carries little influence. Perhaps you, in your modern Western accommodation should quote less what they have read in books to someone who has spent years engaged in a culture and experienced. |
😁 Trying to correct me by adding historical specifications i will not contradict because they are for sure true but beside the main point i was wanting to make and which you forgot on your rage to be right against me, trying to correct me will not make me wrong on the essential point under discussion: asian society like mainland China resemble and transport his old self through Occidental globalization influence : this china is more self censoring than north america for political and social evident reason ... All what you added are historical specifications that contradict not my general description and that i will not contradict for sure... I dont contradict like you an evidence by trying to drown the cat of history with facts i cannot and will not contest because they are true but beside the point under discussion ... The main point was that there is tighter self censorship in traditional more clanic culture than modern nuclear explosed family... did you remind it? i know you dont like to be contradicted or even discussed but this was the initial point... And this is a fact... i am sorry if hurted your ego...but you like to correct some no?
But if your other historical remarks made sense for sure this sentence make no sense sorry
Whose chinese from where? And modern building dont erase old culture soul and education trasmitted by family contact... And saying that they know their history but it does not make any influence in their soul life is beyond preposterous...
You like to correct "deluded audiophile" but you dont like to be corrected or even just discussed ... I have welcome you in my first post to you yesterday , but you insulted me already two times right after that and truncated first and persist to misread one of my post after that in another thread with no apology at the end ... Fine manner indeed...
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You really are out of touch. "One Child" has been the law until recently in China since 1980. A massive number of Chinese, from early adulthood and on, have barely any interaction with their families except during CNY and on the phone. They "obey" their parents, but their influence is near 0. Whole generations of adult Chinese are growing up with barely any influence from their parents / elders, far less than the average Westerner. You keep regurgitating what you read in books and articles, but have no lived experience in this matter. |
For sure you are right about this... But this does not contradict my point and dont erase all the cultural, social,psychological pressure which impose this self traditional censorship unknown in nuclear family in north america and that was our initial point when we discussed the new self censoring problem emerging now in north america with the new censorship mania... It is not necessary to travel in china to know about post Mao politic on family and demographic... Anyway thanks to answer me politely... I am grateful for that... Good easter night...
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