Why should audiophile deniers be allowed on an audiophile forum?
Why should we be subjected to audiophile deniers, on a site dedicated to audio?
It’s antithetical to the hobby and adds nothing to the pursuit. I want to quote something from another thread.
@djones51 wrote "exposing bull products like "audiophile switches, cables, fuses " and other highly questionable devices that serve no purpose"
What then, is the purpose of people with this agenda being on this site? To “expose bull products.” It’s fine for someone to post they tried a product and it didn’t work for them, but to dismiss entire product categories is not a discussion that belongs on an enthusiast forum.
Would a car enthusiast site stand for this type of post?
Try going on a Porsche forum, just for example, and posting that your Mustang is just as fast 0-60 and that others poster’s claims about their driving experience is “dubious.” See how long that will be tolerated
There are plenty of sites to poke fun at audiophile’s obsession with cables, power conditioners etc. Why does it belong here, especially when we can’t mute specific posters?
What’s next? Arguing that speakers that measure the same must sound the same and that we are all suckers for buying expensive speakers? I thought we got rid of trolling?
Isn’t it obvious with all the ASR related posts here lately we are being trolled?
A couple of months back I read a post here about someone that ordered a new cat8 cable from China. I tried it and posted back my fantastic results for others to benefit.
Personally that’s the kind of forum I’m interested in, not to come here to be challenged about what I hear and that since it can’t be measured so it must be “dubious.”
Perhaps because you are intelligent, i dont doubt this, you must read ALL my post content, not the part that suit your interpretation...
I said we must let someone even stupid say what he want to say FIRST, in the CONTEXT of a general discussion, and AFTER we can correct it and oppose his "idiotic" suggestion to inject bleach... do you catch it?
If we censor him where this censorship will stop? and why censoring just him why not all other idiots? who will decide who is an idiot? you?
I am sure that with an hour of reflection at your disposal you will understand WHY this is better to let speak freely people way better than let SOME INSTANCES decide what is idiotic, irrational, or forbidden or taboo FOR OUR OWN SAKE...
For example on this audio forum i am happy that it is not you who decide which audio device is useless and which is useful, guess why?
I am pretty sure that you are happy that in this forum it is not me that decide which audio device is useless and which is useful...
Then in this free speech audio forum you can speak your mind and me too...
Anyway i wish you the best....
it is useless to muzzle people and stupid to insult them also...Between this two there is free polite speech...
But sometimes "insults" and sarcasm are the price to pay...
Now i forgot to say that in your post you attribute falsely to me the idea that i was ENDORSING the Trump recommendation to take bleach if i dont want to muzzle Trump at all cost, but i endorse his right to free speech, not the recommendation made by the last idiot who can speak his mind in a free society and public context to drink bleach ... Do you catch here what the greek called a "sophism" in your criticizing of my post argument ?
Voltaire cannot be condemned because he will let Trump speak first before answering to his stupid proposition... Imagine now that i am Voltaire...is it clearer?
In a discussion, intelligence is not something we own, but something we each of us lend to the poor and borrow to the rich, the greek call it : dialogos, the way toward the LOGOS...
Wisdom may emerge between free man....
my best to you...
😁😊
So let me get this clear, @mahgister , you think it’s perfectly OK, or at the least should be permitted, for person A to recommend to person B to drink bleach or inject themselves with it to cure covid, and then if person B is foolish enough to believe, then, well, damn the consequences.
So you could care less if it’s Fat Donnie or Dapper Diaper Joe ruining the USA.
On which planet do you live?
ask every people on the planet the effect on them of American politic...
WE ARE ALL AFFECTED BY THIS DECLINING EMPIRE...
The United States are a friendly nation, great people, but the American military empire and multinational power is not the american people it is a BEAST who affect village in Africa or quebec city...
American election is a puppet show but the puppet character affect all the world...
Trump was an INCONVENIENT clown for those in power, Biden is a CONVENIENT clown... Thats all....
Save for his exigesis of the bible, dont begin with that... 😁😊
When you catch his main model/metaphor...
All that exist are the projective HOLOGRAPHIC manifestation of the Divine Love and the Divine Wisdom of God...EVERYTHING....
You see?
Imagine the ying and yang interpenetration polarizations....
I just explain Swedenborg with ONE essential metaphor/model...
He anticipare, fractals and the , holographic model...
Then all Swedenborg is a metaphorical tree and graph sets of correspondances between earth and Heaven and Hell....
An example:
His definition of death is the most concrete and abstract possible description , the two at the same time :
"Death is the reversal of the internal and the external "
is it not simple?
For Swedenborg an object is an abstraction manifesting the concrete rays of the Divine Love and the divine Wisdom...
The relation between a man and a woman is the relation between the Divine Love and the Divine Wisdom...It is like the Chinese ying and yang metaphor /model/energy flowing...
i read it 45 years ago and i cannot forgot the powerful vision of this man...
He is more easy to read than most books... But the densification and depth of his basic model exceed human brain working...It is the seed of a fractals encompassing everything....
The heaven and the earth are at the same location....Your perception of one or of the other is determined by the balance existing in you... All the damned prefer the hell to the paradise and all angels prefer the heaven to the hell.... Nobody is where he dont like to be ...
Swedenborg begin simple and end deep...
Every angel is a crowd of two beings becoming a constellation of beings determined by the distribution of the Divine Love and Divine wisdom...
You see?
i read it 45 years ago and cannot forgot it...
Swedenborg was so powerfully influential that it is IMPOSSIBLE to understand european litterature in the 19 century without knowing his works...He singlehandly created the Synbolism turn in litterature for example...All geniuses of every european nation studied him...William Blake, Rimbaud, Goethe, Emerson, Coleridge, The list is too long and included every true genius in art, litterature and philosophy...
Swedenborg is a genius in science, he created neurology by identifying the cortex role...And was knwoledgeable in all fields... He is a mix of Newton and Goethe and of the Jakob Bohm and Paracelsius all wrapped in one...
Swedenborg may be the most difficult read in all of philosophy. I tried numerous times and even my Professor advised against it. Said he was brilliant but too obscure for his own good.
But i dont have grudges against anyone, even the guy who accuse me of kiiling people with mes posts years ago...😁
Life is too short...
But i love discussion and i could be passionnate... The things that annoy me the most is fanaticism in political matters ...
The world is too complex to be reduced to conditioned Pavlovian left/rigth reactions, especially after this pandemy and this war....
Thinking is mandatory....And the planet is not North America....
And if without historical knowledge people are condemned to repeat past errors,without philosophical maturity they cannot decide where they must go and how to go there, then they resort to ideological means and empty gurus....
«Nothing is more concrete and impactful than spirituality or the lack of spirituality»-Anonymus Smith
«Is spirituality religion without clothes?»- Anonymus Smith
I don’t have a particularly good memory and as a consequence am unable to hold any lasting grudges against my fellow forum posters with whom I might not always see eye to eye.
It describe well the effect of the internet web on society and why we must understand what is at stake and no more only raging around the old political factions or tribes...
A more participating democratic process is the key....
What is lacking from the article though is the blindspot of the author about what moves society...
Labelling conspiracy theorists ALL people who search for truth is easy to do, but this hide the POSITIVE result behind this rising internet Babel Tower, it is also the internet Infinite Library or the Alexandria modern twin institution , a higher consciousness potentially given to a critical mass of people...
Babel yes but on the other side of this coin Alexandria library too...
Not only the internet has shattered the ancient clear division between private life and public life, this separation being the corner stone of democracy, and replacing it by social scapegoating and tribes warrings in a virtual space where there is no more private and public separation at all, but on a brighter side internet or the Alexandria library made possible a search engine diagonalizing the labyritnth flying us over it, making us able to access all informations about who pull the strings, who create war and who benefit from it , whose UNELECTED power want to be OVER all countries law to control in case of pandemic and erase the freedom of each country to mobilize his citizens for theor own original solutions instead of imposing a UNIQUE one to the world......
There is not only Qanon and fools who read signs everywhere confirming their paranoiac investigation in conspiracies, there is also those who search for truth with no labels and who cannot be duped anymore by what is behind the crumbling institutions...The instituions are crumblings why? Because they are manipulated non democratically behind the screen and not only assaulted by scapegoating mobs coming from twitter dissolving all past social institutions like claim the author...
Then i am optimist, the article author is not so much optimist , because he does not see the rise in the consciousness of an essential minority... The majority become stupidest for sure but nor all become more stupid...
Then the internet is Babel yes but the internet is Alexandria library too ...
It is up to us to choose...
It take a very small number of apes to change the entire behaviour of the group...
I anticipate more chaos before a transformation by consciousness rising....
No more people will be blinded now by warmonging , and hidden financials corporate powers and banks power but less and less ....Globalist control is VISIBLE to all eyes which want to be open...And nations may rediscovered their roots and begin a dialogue in respect for all others...
Then a new democratic participation is possible and a new dialogue between Nations is possible after this chaos... It will be coming when the threshold of awakened people will be there...
Nassim Taleb is a disciple of one of my gurus.. I call guru a great writer and thinker...
It is the reason i read his book about the Black Swan and his statistic debunking concepts books... I like his humor and he own the common sense i lack ...
I read the first edition of Mandelbrot book masterpiece on fractal geometry in 1975 published first in french...
One of the greatest book i read in my life: pure poetry...Imagine you read a book that teach you why you had never seen anything in the right way ever...Astounding and flabbergasting, inpossible to sleep many nights...
Surprizingly i was amazed to read in the description of Mandelbrot the fractal concept was already in the books of the great scientist and mystic Emmanuel Swedenborg... I read Mandelbrot and Swedenborg the same months...
Swedenborg was the father of neurology and the master scientific mind in all fields for the Queen of the Sweden kingdom.. And a seer without peer...He talked with angels all his life and inspired my favorite English poet and seer William Blake...
His definition of death is amazingly abstract and amazingly concrete at the same time: "death is the reversal of the internal and the external "...He speak slowly because he stutter all his life...But nobody dare to mock his wisdom in mathematic, medecine, physics or in celestial matters...He predicted his own death exactly...he wrote all his work in latin and live till old age a feet in this world and the other feet in heaven and hell...
His description of the dying process were later proved exactly right by NDE research centuries later...
He was called the Leonardo Da Vinci of the north...His life is too incredible for a movie...
And Kant was so envious and sceptic about him he wrote young a book about Swedenborg trying to debunk the giant... He lost... 😁😊
Kant is a prodigious thinker but not an artist nor a scientist, nor a creative mind nor a seer and mystic all wrapped in one body... Swedenborg is in the same club than Goethe...
😉😊
@mahgister I cannot recommend the book thyname recommend because I have not read it, but I can recommend the author. The Master and his Emissary was an incredible book. He is also highly recommended by Nassim Taleb, another great author.
I am particularly moved by Mathematics ,Poetry and Music....For me they are the three flows surging from the same beat...
Gibran is a supremum artist, painter and mystic a Poet in his own class...
He is deep like ocean and clear like water fresh rain...
His soul must be a very beautiful fractal linking very other beautiful souls...
I read many of his books ....
@mahgister,I've never seen you write like this. You must/have to be a teacher/professor of sorts. Most of the time you write in a poetry style more common to the author of The Prophet - Almustafa, Kahlil Gibran. Don't ever loose the masters touch.
The will for change and the focus on what may come from an unmapped territory is not under the same commanding part of the brain than the focus on what is under our nose and what is our map usefulness on our known territory ....
The problem now is that all our map depict a world which is no more and we need to walk in uncharted water...
The new territory is our own uncharted free mind and we are all brothers on the same boat...China Russian or American or European...
it is the reason why we must think about the origin of civilization itself and about the origin of language and music and about the way our brain work...
The video i recommended above and the Book i just recommend just do that...
My past job was to advise students about reading... I am a bit "pedantic" and i apologize but nonoise was right... 😁😊
The world is large enough to share with everyone.
Are you by chance a wise female pygmy shaman feemore12?
I apologize for my sarcasm to you... but this will not change my intuition...
Try my recommendation, anyway you had read Dalio then begin the one i recommend and if you dont think it is a deep book i will refund your money with paypal myself no question ask...
But i will verify if you had read it before the refund...A little exam...
😁😊
@mahgister : Ray Dalio is retired. For several years now. Yes, used to be a hedge fund manager, true, and the largest most successful hedge fund in the world. However, don’t judge the quality of the book by a quick Google of the author, and without reading it.
I dont think a hedge fund manager could be a great thinker...He look for new customer perhaps?
I am a bit sceptic here.... And like you said i am "into books"...
I guess he claim that China rise and America decline no?
And his hedge fund is already in China doing business i guess... A bright man who owes his money certainly ONLY to himself indeed...Like Gates...
😁😊
But like i said in my post above we must undertstand WHY All the west decline European countries in general decline , not only our little America.... For that the best short book this year is this one under...
😁😊
I will recommend this one instead because it is a very short book of 1300 pages:
I apologize... You are right i misread you about America...to make my point... 😁😊
i am hot tempered too....
my best to you...
I am aware there are billions of people who don’t give a damn about the American Empire. I never said the species would die out but Empires don’t die quietly. They might not give a damn but they will be affected.
Are you serious? i understand your point i dont want America to fall i am Canadian our destiny are linked...But awake, the world is unhabited by billions of people who dont give a damn about america...
Borrow a chinese film and indian one or an african one....
If Rambo fail we fail as human species? 😁😊
If the American Empire falls the world falls with it.
if you want a clue about what i was talking about listen to this video it will be a beginning...
By the way thinking is not a hobby it is a necessity....
By the way the problem is not about the decline of america , America is only a smallpart of Occidental christian civilization, it is this civilization who has lost his bearings...
To understand why we must understand the passage from the renaissance to the industrial age...
Study Bernard Mandeville the father of capitalism, of political psychoanalysis, and the most underestimated genius with Goethe in the last centuries...A cynical genius which make Machiavel a naive man and Kissinger a boy scout...
The bank does business with a company 80 of these people feel goes against their personal beliefs so they threaten to withdraw their money.
The problem you discuss is a 18 century problem 19 century one at best...
The problem nowadays is about centralized money control and tracking... There is no more private banks, awake there is only controlled finances... ...There is no more capitalistic competition either... Awake...
There is no more middle class...Even Hollywood exist no more...And there is no more newspapers either...
Why do you think the power in America speak so much about democracy asnd the way to export it?
From a problem about censorship and the origin of civilization and language, and the meaning of science and money, some here will drag the question in the left and right binary small politic Trump/Biden gutter instead of the high road of thinking about a world crisis , i smell it already...
The problem is monopolistic corporate power and neo liberalism... Not the question if there is too much or not enough regulations... Money and power dont keep roots in a country...
This is a world wide crisis not only an American empire decline problem ..
Most people look at a tree and are unable to fathom what the forest is it seems...
I dont speak for you djones but for all of us...
You’re arguing for more government regulation and I would need to see what form they would take before I could offer an opinion.
Take a look at bill c67 in Canada...It is because of this that Jordan Peterson became known everywhere...he protest against it...
but it’s just another opinion, isn’t it? Everyone’s free to say what they think, aren’t they? Nothing is being forced on you, aside from having to listen.
You are too old my friend!
Reality is tweeter and facebook... people live thereoa great amount of time each day and they take their news there... Why do you think it is so important to limit the power of these corporations?
By the way there is no real competitions now more of a gang complicity...Awake... Three corporations controls almost all products...
All that "canceling" of Rowling is of minor importance and blown all out of proportion to the general population, unless you live on Twitter or some other social medium and think that's reality.
And dont forgot to meditate about the deep symbolic and concrete meaning of voices polyphonics and rythms in pygmies society, our human craddle and the ONLY human house :
By the way a great jazz musician decided decades ago to go back to Africa...for purely musical reason and investigation... Not for nostalgical racial reason at all by the way like the return in Africa for some others...In his case it was a pure musical problem he wanted to understand...
He want to understand what a freshly arrived african mysteriously say about music in America: "it did not roll most of the times "...Without explaining it...
Then he take the boat and go in Africa investigate African music...
His discovery after a long trip was this:
Music "roll" inside itself when the tempo rise with the music itself and trough and in the body rising tides and when it is not imposed over the melody and over the body by an external metronimic mechanical way...
Some jazz "roll" better than other piece of jazz, even some classical interpretation of written music like Furtwangler for example "roll" better than with some other maestro...
Then he came back to America again happy to understand why good music must "roll" inside itself...
I forgot his name sorry...
😁😊
Now guess why the fact that some music "roll" has something to do with the origin of the human society and language ?
😁😊
And guess what is the relation to censorship...
These posts remind me of my job with the students... Sorry if i am "pedantic here"...
Nonoise was not wrong about that i guess...
But i will not change much at 71 now... 😁😊
By the way there is a deep relation about music, timing, and time and non commutative geometry and symmetry breaking and the Pytagorean origin of occidental science and music notions , but it will be too much "pedantic" for the thread and too long to be explained... You see i can control myself... 😁😊
In Trudeau Canada your future is here to be seen...Take a look!
Your speech will be controlled...
And Controls under the skin is coming and welcome...For now it is a vaxx card but wait it will be improved soon...
Read Orwell and Huxley, they are already beaten and overpassed anyway by all events now....
Like said Yuval Harari the prophet men are not free, "free will" never existed, and the soul is like an optical illusion, men are here to be hacked...Many can and will be hacked... Bill Gates like that ....
Just this week a law is discussed where it will be an unelected few at the head of WHO who will decide OVER elected officials of all countries law what we must do in a pandemic case and they will decide "scientifically for sure" what a pandemy is and when... Look at Shangai now if you want a preview... Bill Gates loves that ...Gives him the key...( No it is not a conspiracy it is FACT it is the biggest contributor in money to the WHO)
And right now an Australian heroic journalist will de deported to be imprison and suicided in the Soviet empire, oups excuse in America ,for no reason save publishing the truth...No protest in North America.... It remind me of Soljenitsyn deportation...
Welcome to the future next door...
And some want more censorship or want to be ruled by youtube, tweeter, and banned like the deluded IMPOTENT president Trump was by decree of unlected rich NOBODIES...Have you not seen the reaction of Trudeau government about pacific protest? A bill about bank account suspension?
911 was when? 22 years ago soon... It islike nobody had learn anything... They think right or left... 😁😊 they scapegoat their neighbours like in the Hebrew desert some tribes asking for their sin forgiveness...
i am flabbergasted each day...
People are so brainwashed in North america already i must self-censor myself even here...
They dont even want to know that we all became robot already, the programmation has alrady begun...
Mankind soul is uprooted now by corporate power like pygmies bodies were uprroted by forced exile in the colonization of their forest by European corporation and political small powers...
Language is born with laughs and music and with the new "symbolic" world 300, 000 years ago by the better synchronization of sexes in education and hunt practice of the members tribes and the refusal of our brother apes their censorship habits and male domination ... Today the new symbolic space is a soul prison and we ask for censorship and our music is the silence of those who will be hacked and wish for it and will liked that...
"Wait you will own nothing and you will be happy "
There is enough crisis now to be prepared and well cooked already : a good and "just" war, another pandemic, a climate crisis, count your last freedom days...
And call me a conspirationist...
I will call you an ostrich...
It is all about deciding what type of society you want to live in.
I am happy to say that you may be right here...But i hope you will not appeal to my ban in the desert...
I spoke too much yes...i hope with originality, arguments and the less insults possible or the less rudeness possible...
But anyway there is always a LINK between my posts matter...
I know for sure you are very intelligent you will discover it...
Humans invented language precisely by eliminating authoritatian apes self censorship? By inventing laughing and synchronized polyphony and rythms a marvellous social tools...They create a ladder toward the symbolic unreal world, and this social virtual new created world was used as tool to manage in a better way, education and hunt in the real world...Is it not extraordinary?
This is the reason why i posted a link to a very interesting conference about the origin of language and his link to music as social tools...There is a lesson hidden here...
Do you see the link with the censorship matter and the polarization of society?
Or am i out of the discussion always in the fringe of " idealism"?
Or just pedantic for the sake of being pedantic?
A little bit pedantic,yes, i assume my human defect...
This kind of post is your habit...At least i try not to insult people most of the times and i answer to arguments... I answered each one of yours... You call my answers arguments with no counter argument from yours save a label an "idealism gobblewick" or hypocrital accusation coming from your mimicking paranoiac discourse for your enemies or your foes, then ? Everyone is an ally or an enemies for you...
Write to Daryl Davis and say to him he is " a room low IQ idealist " so to speak because he trust free speech and education over censorship of any kind...
No need to write the name of your party affiliation to guess it nor the name of the party you despised...
I say that to you because i hate political left /right discussions... they divide people...They made no sense at all now...America is dying from this puppets controlled theater ...Canada is dead now...
I apologize when i am wrong by the way ...
And i am sometimes wrong being imperfect...it is the reason why you read my apology... Are you surprized that i can be wrong?
I am not...
Call that hypocrisy if you want, others will decide ...
But if by my own human weakness i give in to the tentation to insult you or anybody or if i am too rude in the heat of a discussion , i will apologize another time...It is the less i can do...
bsolute hogwash. You’re intentionally conflating the concept of "free speech" as written in the Constitution with what can be said on a privately owned site. You don’t fool anyone (with an IQ above room temperature) with your victim signaling.
If people are unable to understand simple matter like the necessary correlation between subjective impressions and objective measured numbers not only in electronic design but in acoustic experience, if people are so tribal to ask for censorship of the other political side for security reason, i am a bit sad and pessimist about right now the newly proposed horrible international law fby those who want to place in the hand of unelected WHO the power control on earth in case of a pandemy; then after the erasing of doctors freedom WHO proposed the erasing of nation sovereignty ...No freedom for the sake of a false security impression...
Guess who is the big contributor in money to the WHO ? If you dont know you are lost forever... if you dont mind you are more than lost... 😁😊This is not a conspiracy at all this isin the light for all to see... This is only the trend of corporate power lobbys...There is no more any conspiracies, all is in the open...
I am sad but not bored, because each day is more amazing than the last...
Freedom is the only great discovery for the last million years with language, they emerge together through play, and hunting synchronized play by men and children synchronized play by music with women... Perhaps i dont have the right to distinguish the sexes here no more ? 😁😊
Some anthropologist school just demonstrate how language came from more social freedom in first human hunter gatherers society like the pygmies today, by the play instinct and his extension in the symbolic kingdom by the virtue of a matriarchal impulse toward more freedom in the group and a general higher level of trust linked to play and music, guiding all the tribe to a more successful synchronized way to hunt with no stress, the opposite of primate society ...
Interesting hypothesis about language origin....My favorite one...
There is nothing legally wrong with stating vile, ugly, insulting and dangerous rhetoric. Does that make it acceptable? The law says no when it crosses the threshold into stochastic terrorism.
We cannot decide by LAW the way we must spoke to people...Who will decide? From which community? Education is the key not law...
"Stochastic terrorism " will increase in all society which increase his communautarism division over the citizen status or beside it...When the notion of citizen become less and less meaningful, violence increase in a society...
Each community of any kind has his tabu matters and disctinctions... if all kind of community impose them by law it is chaos...
The only way to decrease "stochastic terrorism" is to increase citizenship education and establishing the laical INDIVIDUAL citizen right over any cultural line of division...
censorship is the opposite ...In canada censorship Trudeau want to include by law even the way we MUST adress to someone... Trudeau is already a robot...
Like said Davis here, we must talk one another like friend and citizen, not as muslim first or black people first or trans sexual first etc
For example it is not acceptable to say some words to someone else, Davis does not ask for a law to solve the problem, he ask for communication and education AS CITIZEN...Nevermind all other distinctions which are secondary...Freedom is for INDIVIDUAL citizen,not for any other groups of any kind, groups are not free and never will be, individual only can be free by definition...
Militant communautarism, gettho-isation, become destructive without this citizenship education OVER it ...
It's really simple. Everyone on this site can post whatever they want. That doesn't mean the Owners of the site will allow it to remain. I have had posts removed for whatever reasons and while it might initially annoy me, it isn't my site.
Depending upon the country where you reside, you might also have the right of free speech. In the US you are absolutely allowed to say whatever you want (except "fire" in a theater), you just have to live the consequences or repercussions of what you said. You might have the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean you won't suffer for it.
For sure you are right...To this date here my problem is more with the members behaviour than with the moderators...Some members insults and act like a mob, want to ban people etc...
this is the problem here....
And some fanatic want to import the way of Tweeter here and increase the control... This is the problem....
But remember that this private site is part of society and i dont want this site to imitate tweeter bannishing citizen Trump and bannishing here arbitrarily...
And you are conflating a legal definition with a philosophical concept. There is nothing legally wrong with most cancel culture. Does that make it right?
Exactly so...Thanks...
What is legal (private control) is not necesarily legitimate...
And the foundation of democracy is precisely which make possible to separate what is legitimate from what is legal, it is impossible to do this in a "legal" self legitimizing totalitarian system by definition...
When the censorship is universal, the censorship is INTERNALIZED and become an automatic self censorship, and the citizen become robots...It is the matter in Huxley and Orwell prophetical books,,,
Like said Klaus Schwab with the applauds of Harari "you will own nothing and you will be happy"...
Many american citizen hypnotized by this left/right propaganda are now unable to think...They self destruct destroying the world with them....
They accuse others and there exist no mirror on their planet...
«It is way simple, all white sheep hate black sheep»-Groucho Marx🤓
Absolute hogwash. You’re intentionally conflating the concept of "free speech" as written in the Constitution with what can be said on a privately owned site. You don’t fool anyone (with an IQ above room temperature) with your victim signaling.
All the best,
Nonoise
Like usual Mr. Always Right Nonoise, insult someone because this someone is out of the "party" line...
Nowadays with internet the distinction inherited from some past civilization like Greece and rome between public real space (agora) and private space (home) is blurred because private and public are no more SEPARATED nor SEPARABLE in the virtual reality...
One of the first consequence of censorship in tyrannical and dictatorial society is the externally imposed and conditioned self censorship related to a lost of confidence or a general defiance among neighbours...
In virtual space everybody is your neighbours, then free speech in tweeter and other media must not be over regulated by an external instances nor completely controlled...Why?
The muting of the ELECTED clown Donald Trump who was president by an UNELECTED corporate power decision is destruction of the souverainety of democracy or his nullification or subordination to arbitrary private corporate power...
The only one who can object to that are the "wanna be leader of the opposition party " or some sleepwalking party member , because it is clear that those who control society are now unelected very powerful few corporates mammoth with few unelected technocrats...( unlected B.I.S. president, WHO. president, Bill Gates etc ) and not only leader of countries...Most country in the world command less power than only one big corporation...Any african country for example is at the mercy of this new imperial power...Gates can decide for example in which african country he will pick his lab rats for a new vaccine... At worst he may have some trouble with India who inherited British law and own a population over a billion... Anyway...
It is the reason why these political left/right division whose debate are now wars insatead of debates in the US had less and less meaning save for gullible people or fanatics...And it is the same power behind these wrestling puppets: money and greed..,.
The Constitution was written at a times where public space were not privately controlled and regulated at the scale where it is now...
The distinction of the private home space of a citizen and the public agora where the public affair where discussed in ancient Greece , this clear distinction did not exist in virtual space ...
Then free speech must be maximized in a civilized manner in virtual space and externally imposed self censorship must me minimized..
If not, the reverse dynamic will go hand in hand with this "marvellous" totalitarian global state where surveillance is "under the skin" of everyone was claimed and applaud to by the like of Yuval Noah Hariri and Klaus Schwab, the unlected Gurus of Trudeau for example and of Macron and many others around the globe...
By the way there is a difference between unlimited naive tolerance denounced by Popper correctly so , and critical and selective tolerance a la Marcuse...Between these two there is, GUIDING tolerance, behind it and in front of it education and communication, because tolerance is not enough alone, an education toward communication and understanding which refuse abdication in front of agression and refuse censorship is the ONLY way...
Listen to Daryl Davis...He know even more than Popper and Marcuse...He is more a renaissance man in his spirit than a conditioned unfree propagandist from the left or right propaganda....
Like i said in my post above speaking of Mandeville, The occident has forgot his roots...Man like Davis remind us of this....
4,642 posts
Orwellian/Machiavellian to the core and being followed to a tee!
More nonsense from those who don’t have the slightest idea. Good people on both sides is BS. There are no good Skinheads or Neonazis. To tolerate such is suicide to society.
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
How do you think to exterminate them or eliminating them ? censorship?
labor boot camp?
Militia anti fascist?
listen to this dude , he know what he is talking about...
One of the great american nowadays...
Good people on both side is BS you said?.... For you all is black and white with no understanding necessary, the only way to answer will be the same as the extremist: violence and censorship ?
Take a lesson here:
More nonsense from those who don’t have the slightest idea. Good people on both sides is BS. There are no good Skinheads or Neonazis. To tolerate such is suicide to society.
Marcuse is an inferior version of Marx who is himself an inferior version of Bernard Mandeville, the real thinker BEFORE Adam Smith of capitalism-neo-liberalism historical seeds at the time of industrial revolution...
But the machiavellian genius of Mandevillle come from the abandonment of the classical education model coming from the Renaissance (Pico of La Mirandole) based on the spiritual value at the root of western civilization for an alleged more "lucid" education system based on individualism egocentrism and greed and ambition which are supposed to be the "normal" POSITIVE working of society and economy at the end (the "hiden hand" regulating the market is an idea borrowed and presented in a more "morally" neutral way, it comes directly from "the fable of the bees" in Mandeville Faustian bargain and deeper observation of mankind )..
Mandeville anticipated Freud by 2 centuries, not only Marx... Adam Smith ideas comes directly in an attenuated and less deep expression from Bernard Mandeville influence on him; the true Genius and "our master of us all "said Hayek in a famous conference in front of 8 future nobel prizes in economy in the beginning of the last century speaking of Mandeville...
The radical cut from the original spiritual Greek ideal of renaissance for the egoistic model of man is at the origin of these 3 successive perversions: nazism, marxism and Stalinism, and neo liberalism... The three ideologies pretend to educate the masses not to be independent free thinker like the Renaissant man but individual at the service of the social Hive (Mandeville) because it is INEVITABLE...Like in Marcuse discourse discriminative tolerance ONLY is inevitable...The general idea of tolerance being an illusion of an hypocrital elite which must be destroyed...
The actual crisis of the world is a spiritual war between forces who want to enslave humanity and UPROOT it complety from his cultural and spiritual history, for a mad dystopia of social engineering (transhumanism being his last mortal avatar) ... And some other cultural forces who reacted violently to this Occidental madness...Occident has forgotten his roots....His wisdom became madness...And this madness has provoked another mad violent reaction...
This world is now a sleepwalking violent theater for three great wars...
No civilization can forget his roots and survive...And no civilization can live without roots...
Like said John Cowper Powys describing a technocratic hell through de Sade mouth: they are all working on terrible experiments in "white robe clothes" but for the "common good" and only for the common good now... This technocratic hell is the children of the Mandeville ’s Hive...
Even Orwell and Huxley geniuses are anticipasted centuries before by Mandeville underestimated genius...Machiavel himself appear a children scout before Mandeville indeed and beside him ...
The work of Mandeville is thin but his thougth deep and his influence on the future thinkers who will counted in social and economic thinking will be without equal and lasting from Smith to admirative Hayek and all his disciples... And completely new...The self apponted "elite" will understand him and will derive the appropriate conclusions till this day...
To understand the philosophy, that’s taken over a certain segment of our society: one need look no further than Marcuse’s brief enchiridion, on how to marginalize others, ’Repressive Tolerance’.
The question about free speech is the question relative to our attitude toward others...
Listening others, for example people who disagree with many audiophiles subjective approach , or listening those impressions is practising civilized free speech ATTITUDE .. Similarly listening those who are skilled in objective measuremnentsand could teach us something ....
Censoring or asking for censororing or attacking people with no politeness is an attack on free speech consensual attitude here even in a private regulated site... It is not so much the matter discussed here which attract the moderators action , i observed it, but most of the times agtressive action between us, especially insults, agressivity and degenative discussion branding IMPOLITE name, labelling opinion one against the other, political one being the worst...
Then free speech is not only a constitution principle limited rightfully or not by the owner will or by the miderators here it is ESPECIALLY a consensual attitude and habit between us discussing...And this attitude had the same importance than the constitutional principle itself... It is the same difference and the same relation which exist between ethic and moral and laws and rules...
Correct me if i am wrong...
it is my opinion and feeling...
😁😊
It seems most people don’t understand Free Speech in the constitutional sense.
But this does not contradict my point and dont erase all the cultural, social,psychological pressure which impose this self traditional censorship unknown in nuclear family in north america and that was our initial point when we discussed the new self censoring problem emerging now in north america with the new censorship mania...
It is not necessary to travel in china to know about post Mao politic on family and demographic...
Anyway thanks to answer me politely...
I am grateful for that...
Good easter night...
You really are out of touch. "One Child" has been the law until recently in China since 1980. A massive number of Chinese, from early adulthood and on, have barely any interaction with their families except during CNY and on the phone. They "obey" their parents, but their influence is near 0. Whole generations of adult Chinese are growing up with barely any influence from their parents / elders, far less than the average Westerner.
You keep regurgitating what you read in books and articles, but have no lived experience in this matter.
I see your propensity for being wrong extends to other topics
😁
Trying to correct me by adding historical specifications i will not contradict because they are for sure true but beside the main point i was wanting to make and which you forgot on your rage to be right against me, trying to correct me will not make me wrong on the essential point under discussion: asian society like mainland China resemble and transport his old self through Occidental globalization influence : this china is more self censoring than north america for political and social evident reason ...
All what you added are historical specifications that contradict not my general description and that i will not contradict for sure... I dont contradict like you an evidence by trying to drown the cat of history with facts i cannot and will not contest because they are true but beside the point under discussion ...
The main point was that there is tighter self censorship in traditional more clanic culture than modern nuclear explosed family... did you remind it?
i know you dont like to be contradicted or even discussed but this was the initial point... And this is a fact...
i am sorry if hurted your ego...but you like to correct some no?
But if your other historical remarks made sense for sure this sentence make no sense sorry
Most modern Chinese, in their modern business building have less attachment or even feeling for their past culture than Western people do. They know of their history, but it carries little influence.
Whose chinese from where? And modern building dont erase old culture soul and education trasmitted by family contact... And saying that they know their history but it does not make any influence in their soul life is beyond preposterous...
You like to correct "deluded audiophile" but you dont like to be corrected or even just discussed ... I have welcome you in my first post to you yesterday , but you insulted me already two times right after that and truncated first and persist to misread one of my post after that in another thread with no apology at the end ...
I am not appointed by someone to judge anyone here...
Mind your business...I spoke to everyone here even to you...Spare me your implicit "judgement"...
There is no "point" here save your inquisition in my own affair...
Thanks
The point being should your hypothetical ‘Friend’ circumvent the consequence of their previous behaviour in the forum owners ‘House’ you are quite comfortable with this arrangement here?
I try to act in the best way possible and i try to not judge people...And i speak my mind for each SPECIFIC post i answer to without hating anyone.. (save for some intense emotional response sometimes for sure i am human 😊)
I am not perfect for sure...
but i will not answer your question...
it is not up to me to write, decide in place of the moderators here, but it is my own personal decision to accept to interact with ALL people here ...
I try to interact in the best possible way with people...
Then count me out if you want my vote for censorship...I try to appreciate EVERYONE here...
And i prefer to let you or the moderators track people behaviour ... It is not my hobby...
my best to you....
I am curious regarding your standpoint over the conduct of previous members
You’re right, @mahgister , it doesn’t matter one bit that the US came perilously close to having the democratic process subverted and an authoritarian administration illegally installed. And if that had happened it wouldn’t matter one bit to every Ukrainian today and it wouldn’t have had any impact on the global situation.
If you read my posts i am not in favor of Trump invasion of institution..
Then attacking me about that is beside the point i want to made: no understanding of the actual world crisis is possible if we label each other with political name instead of discussing...
Then instead of putting what i had never said in my mouth think twice..
All the time i came here for 8 years you ere very swift to put unorthox audio people under the "thin foil" hat , for one time grow mature without attacking people in 3 lines posts...
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
