Why should audiophile deniers be allowed on an audiophile forum?
Why should we be subjected to audiophile deniers, on a site dedicated to audio?
It’s antithetical to the hobby and adds nothing to the pursuit. I want to quote something from another thread.
@djones51 wrote "exposing bull products like "audiophile switches, cables, fuses " and other highly questionable devices that serve no purpose"
What then, is the purpose of people with this agenda being on this site? To “expose bull products.” It’s fine for someone to post they tried a product and it didn’t work for them, but to dismiss entire product categories is not a discussion that belongs on an enthusiast forum.
Would a car enthusiast site stand for this type of post?
Try going on a Porsche forum, just for example, and posting that your Mustang is just as fast 0-60 and that others poster’s claims about their driving experience is “dubious.” See how long that will be tolerated
There are plenty of sites to poke fun at audiophile’s obsession with cables, power conditioners etc. Why does it belong here, especially when we can’t mute specific posters?
What’s next? Arguing that speakers that measure the same must sound the same and that we are all suckers for buying expensive speakers? I thought we got rid of trolling?
Isn’t it obvious with all the ASR related posts here lately we are being trolled?
A couple of months back I read a post here about someone that ordered a new cat8 cable from China. I tried it and posted back my fantastic results for others to benefit.
Personally that’s the kind of forum I’m interested in, not to come here to be challenged about what I hear and that since it can’t be measured so it must be “dubious.”
The question seems designed to create discord, yawn. After all, it is a forum (look the word up) and not a church. To quote Stevie Wonder- "When you believe in things that you don't understand, Hey, hey, hey!
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No Swedenborg is not difficult to read ... Save for his exigesis of the bible, dont begin with that... 😁😊 When you catch his main model/metaphor... All that exist are the projective HOLOGRAPHIC manifestation of the Divine Love and the Divine Wisdom of God...EVERYTHING.... You see? Imagine the ying and yang interpenetration polarizations.... I just explain Swedenborg with ONE essential metaphor/model... He anticipare, fractals and the , holographic model... Then all Swedenborg is a metaphorical tree and graph sets of correspondances between earth and Heaven and Hell.... An example: His definition of death is the most concrete and abstract possible description , the two at the same time : "Death is the reversal of the internal and the external " is it not simple? For Swedenborg an object is an abstraction manifesting the concrete rays of the Divine Love and the divine Wisdom... The relation between a man and a woman is the relation between the Divine Love and the Divine Wisdom...It is like the Chinese ying and yang metaphor /model/energy flowing... i read it 45 years ago and i cannot forgot the powerful vision of this man... He is more easy to read than most books... But the densification and depth of his basic model exceed human brain working...It is the seed of a fractals encompassing everything.... The heaven and the earth are at the same location....Your perception of one or of the other is determined by the balance existing in you... All the damned prefer the hell to the paradise and all angels prefer the heaven to the hell.... Nobody is where he dont like to be ... Swedenborg begin simple and end deep... Every angel is a crowd of two beings becoming a constellation of beings determined by the distribution of the Divine Love and Divine wisdom... You see? i read it 45 years ago and cannot forgot it... Swedenborg was so powerfully influential that it is IMPOSSIBLE to understand european litterature in the 19 century without knowing his works...He singlehandly created the Synbolism turn in litterature for example...All geniuses of every european nation studied him...William Blake, Rimbaud, Goethe, Emerson, Coleridge, The list is too long and included every true genius in art, litterature and philosophy... Swedenborg is a genius in science, he created neurology by identifying the cortex role...And was knwoledgeable in all fields... He is a mix of Newton and Goethe and of the Jakob Bohm and Paracelsius all wrapped in one... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1034728/?page=2
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Not sure the word 'denier' is appropriate on a forum where there is concensus on absolutely nothing. A Denier is someone who denies something in the face of overwhelming evidence that the thing in question is factually true. I can't think of any views that are held by all, or even the vast majority of audiophiles. Even the prime directive, 'If it cost more, it must be better', is being questioned. Cheers |
Swedenborg may be the most difficult read in all of philosophy. I tried numerous times and even my Professor advised against it. Said he was brilliant but too obscure for his own good. Or maybe it's the translation. As for fractals and the thumbprint of God has anyone tried to turn its patterns into music? Beyond me but seems like it could be done. |
I have a good memory... 😁😊 But i dont have grudges against anyone, even the guy who accuse me of kiiling people with mes posts years ago...😁 Life is too short... But i love discussion and i could be passionnate... The things that annoy me the most is fanaticism in political matters ... The world is too complex to be reduced to conditioned Pavlovian left/rigth reactions, especially after this pandemy and this war.... Thinking is mandatory....And the planet is not North America.... And if without historical knowledge people are condemned to repeat past errors,without philosophical maturity they cannot decide where they must go and how to go there, then they resort to ideological means and empty gurus....
«Nothing is more concrete and impactful than spirituality or the lack of spirituality»-Anonymus Smith
«Is spirituality religion without clothes?»- Anonymus Smith
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But in the same way people get the leadership they deserve, I suppose people get the audio forums they deserve.
Didn't want to disagree once more but aren't you making a mistake here in assuming how democracy actually works (compared to how it should perhaps)? In the US you have a choice between Democrats and Republicans, in the UK you can have either Labour or Conservative, and in Russia you can choose Putin etc. Some might argue it hardly matter who you choose, it's those with the financial clout that will remain in ultimate control.
At least here in Audiogon forum I'd like to think we have a little more choice in all of the ongoing debates. I don't have a particularly good memory and as a consequence am unable to hold any lasting grudges against my fellow forum posters with whom I might not always see eye to eye. Take for example @mahgister - whilst I find his posts interesting I don't always agree with them. I would expect that half the time we're seeing things the same way (namely I suspect because I don't have, or even want, his background in philosophy) and the other half perhaps quite differently. Nevertheless it's a privilege to have access to differing opinions, and it's one that should be encouraged and not censored. As an adult, when it comes to reading anything, I prefer to be my own censor. |
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After being off the forum for a number of days recovering from Covid, it’s pretty shocking to see what’s become of the thread/site. Someone made a Nazi comment about me. The thread has once again become a political landmine, missing my original point. I realize now I should have used the word “debunkers” in the title. That’s what I was objecting to, the wholesale dismissal of basic principles, some even measurable products (Icononoclast cables come with each measured). It seems many, even some touting their level of education, failed to grasp the context of my issue. I come to audio sites for value added discussions, to increase my knowledge base, share my decades of experience and get new ideas about how to make my system better. I assume most others do as well. If people feel debunkers add to their knowledge base, so be it. They don’t add to mine, like the many nonsense threads of banned posters we had to endure in past years. But in the same way people get the leadership they deserve, I suppose people get the audio forums they deserve.
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Hadn't seen this thread before but: The answer to the OP is: because it's not all about you. In other words, you don't have the right to define what an "audiophile" is and constrict the hobby to an attitude similar to your own. That's the type of solipsistic view one often sees in audio forums, where some portion simply presume, for instance, that "the ONLY way to truly evaluate the claim of any audio gear is by personally listening to the gear." And that therefore an other person in to audio who may differ from that view is "Not An Audiophile." They are "Intruders!" And if they happen to be skeptical of a claim, simply stating this opinion amounts to "muckraking and trolling." No. Not every audiophile has exactly the same beliefs or approach to audio. An audiophile who owns a nice system but who, for instance, is skeptical of claims about $1,000 Ethernet cables, is just as much an audiophile, and has just as much right to express that opinion as the one who goes on about how transformative that cable was in his system. So the advice is: Stop making it all about you. Don't assume your approach is the only approach and that alternative opinions disbar someone from the hobby or participating in public forums about audio gear.
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Thanks kevn, Very good article everyone here must read... It describe well the effect of the internet web on society and why we must understand what is at stake and no more only raging around the old political factions or tribes... A more participating democratic process is the key.... What is lacking from the article though is the blindspot of the author about what moves society... Labelling conspiracy theorists ALL people who search for truth is easy to do, but this hide the POSITIVE result behind this rising internet Babel Tower, it is also the internet Infinite Library or the Alexandria modern twin institution , a higher consciousness potentially given to a critical mass of people... Babel yes but on the other side of this coin Alexandria library too... Not only the internet has shattered the ancient clear division between private life and public life, this separation being the corner stone of democracy, and replacing it by social scapegoating and tribes warrings in a virtual space where there is no more private and public separation at all, but on a brighter side internet or the Alexandria library made possible a search engine diagonalizing the labyritnth flying us over it, making us able to access all informations about who pull the strings, who create war and who benefit from it , whose UNELECTED power want to be OVER all countries law to control in case of pandemic and erase the freedom of each country to mobilize his citizens for theor own original solutions instead of imposing a UNIQUE one to the world...... There is not only Qanon and fools who read signs everywhere confirming their paranoiac investigation in conspiracies, there is also those who search for truth with no labels and who cannot be duped anymore by what is behind the crumbling institutions...The instituions are crumblings why? Because they are manipulated non democratically behind the screen and not only assaulted by scapegoating mobs coming from twitter dissolving all past social institutions like claim the author... Then i am optimist, the article author is not so much optimist , because he does not see the rise in the consciousness of an essential minority... The majority become stupidest for sure but nor all become more stupid... Then the internet is Babel yes but the internet is Alexandria library too ... It is up to us to choose... It take a very small number of apes to change the entire behaviour of the group...
I anticipate more chaos before a transformation by consciousness rising.... No more people will be blinded now by warmonging , and hidden financials corporate powers and banks power but less and less ....Globalist control is VISIBLE to all eyes which want to be open...And nations may rediscovered their roots and begin a dialogue in respect for all others... Then a new democratic participation is possible and a new dialogue between Nations is possible after this chaos... It will be coming when the threshold of awakened people will be there... 5 % or 10 % ? i dont know....
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@mahgister, I knew it - a Ma(h)gi. I too freaked out when new planets (and stars) were discovered, in a good way though.☺ As that's what astrologers do. Fractals - 2 dimensional angels... |
"If the American Empire falls the world falls with it."
Can you expand on this a little, please? When Britain lost its empire it took several decades before most people here even realised. Somehow they were lead to believe that they had won the war. I’m fairly certain that people in Russia and America didn’t see it that way. In any case the American empire soon took over the vacuum left by the fall of France, Germany and the UK. |
Admittedly @nonoise , I have never seen catholic used in that way, so my apologies to you. I will attempt to delete my offending post. |
I am particularly moved by Mathematics ,Poetry and Music....For me they are the three flows surging from the same beat... Gibran is a supremum artist, painter and mystic a Poet in his own class... He is deep like ocean and clear like water fresh rain... His soul must be a very beautiful fractal linking very other beautiful souls... I read many of his books ....
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You read great books ... 😊 Nassim Taleb is a disciple of one of my gurus.. I call guru a great writer and thinker... It is the reason i read his book about the Black Swan and his statistic debunking concepts books... I like his humor and he own the common sense i lack ... I read the first edition of Mandelbrot book masterpiece on fractal geometry in 1975 published first in french... One of the greatest book i read in my life: pure poetry...Imagine you read a book that teach you why you had never seen anything in the right way ever...Astounding and flabbergasting, inpossible to sleep many nights... Surprizingly i was amazed to read in the description of Mandelbrot the fractal concept was already in the books of the great scientist and mystic Emmanuel Swedenborg... I read Mandelbrot and Swedenborg the same months... Swedenborg was the father of neurology and the master scientific mind in all fields for the Queen of the Sweden kingdom.. And a seer without peer...He talked with angels all his life and inspired my favorite English poet and seer William Blake... His definition of death is amazingly abstract and amazingly concrete at the same time: "death is the reversal of the internal and the external "...He speak slowly because he stutter all his life...But nobody dare to mock his wisdom in mathematic, medecine, physics or in celestial matters...He predicted his own death exactly...he wrote all his work in latin and live till old age a feet in this world and the other feet in heaven and hell... His description of the dying process were later proved exactly right by NDE research centuries later... He was called the Leonardo Da Vinci of the north...His life is too incredible for a movie... And Kant was so envious and sceptic about him he wrote young a book about Swedenborg trying to debunk the giant... He lost... 😁😊 Kant is a prodigious thinker but not an artist nor a scientist, nor a creative mind nor a seer and mystic all wrapped in one body... Swedenborg is in the same club than Goethe...
😉😊
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The will for change and the focus on what may come from an unmapped territory is not under the same commanding part of the brain than the focus on what is under our nose and what is our map usefulness on our known territory .... The problem now is that all our map depict a world which is no more and we need to walk in uncharted water... The new territory is our own uncharted free mind and we are all brothers on the same boat...China Russian or American or European... it is the reason why we must think about the origin of civilization itself and about the origin of language and music and about the way our brain work... The video i recommended above and the Book i just recommend just do that... My past job was to advise students about reading... I am a bit "pedantic" and i apologize but nonoise was right... 😁😊
Are you by chance a wise female pygmy shaman feemore12? 😁😊 |
There is always one certainty in life, change happens. The world is undergoing one the largest if not the largest cultural changes in our recorded history. There are a lot of people that are inherently resistant to change and would like for the world to remain in stasis for ever. Like it or not, the internet has provided a voice to everyone around the world. Suddenly everyone's opinion can be communicated 24/7 without filters and that scares many people. Whether you like it or not, this change is too late to stop. The people most comfortable in their lives (wealth, housing, job, kids) have the most to loose (in their view) and want the world to remain unchanged. It frightens them when people with nothing to loose grab power and start trying to make their lives better (unions, civil rights, equal rights, etc.). If you didn't fight and claw for the power/wealth/status that you have, then you have no idea how or likely even the will to fight to keep it. The world is large enough to share with everyone. |
You are right for sure... I pick books by my inutuion and i can be wrong... I apologize for my sarcasm to you... but this will not change my intuition... Try my recommendation, anyway you had read Dalio then begin the one i recommend and if you dont think it is a deep book i will refund your money with paypal myself no question ask... But i will verify if you had read it before the refund...A little exam... 😁😊
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@mahgister : Ray Dalio is retired. For several years now. Yes, used to be a hedge fund manager, true, and the largest most successful hedge fund in the world. However, don’t judge the quality of the book by a quick Google of the author, and without reading it. |
I dont think a hedge fund manager could be a great thinker...He look for new customer perhaps? I am a bit sceptic here.... And like you said i am "into books"... I guess he claim that China rise and America decline no? And his hedge fund is already in China doing business i guess... A bright man who owes his money certainly ONLY to himself indeed...Like Gates... 😁😊
But like i said in my post above we must undertstand WHY All the west decline European countries in general decline , not only our little America.... For that the best short book this year is this one under... 😁😊
I will recommend this one instead because it is a very short book of 1300 pages:
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I apologize... You are right i misread you about America...to make my point... 😁😊 i am hot tempered too.... my best to you...
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Are you serious? i understand your point i dont want America to fall i am Canadian our destiny are linked...But awake, the world is unhabited by billions of people who dont give a damn about america... Borrow a chinese film and indian one or an african one.... If Rambo fail we fail as human species? 😁😊
if you want a clue about what i was talking about listen to this video it will be a beginning... By the way thinking is not a hobby it is a necessity....
By the way the problem is not about the decline of america , America is only a smallpart of Occidental christian civilization, it is this civilization who has lost his bearings... To understand why we must understand the passage from the renaissance to the industrial age... Study Bernard Mandeville the father of capitalism, of political psychoanalysis, and the most underestimated genius with Goethe in the last centuries...A cynical genius which make Machiavel a naive man and Kissinger a boy scout... |
The problem you discuss is a 18 century problem 19 century one at best... The problem nowadays is about centralized money control and tracking... There is no more private banks, awake there is only controlled finances... ...There is no more capitalistic competition either... Awake... There is no more middle class...Even Hollywood exist no more...And there is no more newspapers either... Why do you think the power in America speak so much about democracy asnd the way to export it? There is no democracy left even here in Canada... Awake...
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The only way this could be enforced is with government banks. Banks would think long and hard before they invest in any company they feel could disenfranchise their existing customers unless you're saying they have to do business with them not just drop them. |
From a problem about censorship and the origin of civilization and language, and the meaning of science and money, some here will drag the question in the left and right binary small politic Trump/Biden gutter instead of the high road of thinking about a world crisis , i smell it already... yes i am too pedantic...i know... 😁😊 |
Interstate commerce has given us a lot of government regulations concerning anti discrimination laws but I'm at a loss as to how the commerce clause can be used to do what you're advocating to prop up free speech without causing a real mess. I and any number of like minded people can come together and try to force businesses to change their behavior. Businesses will decide based on economic reasons what their response will be. I can't see the government taking away my free speech right to speak with my Dollars while allowing business to speak with theirs. |
The problem is monopolistic corporate power and neo liberalism... Not the question if there is too much or not enough regulations... Money and power dont keep roots in a country... This is a world wide crisis not only an American empire decline problem .. Most people look at a tree and are unable to fathom what the forest is it seems... I dont speak for you djones but for all of us...
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@deludedaudiophile You're arguing for more government regulation and I would need to see what form they would take before I could offer an opinion.
I'm not sure how this could be enforced. Banks are in the business of making money. They're not going to drop a client or refuse service unless the alternative causes them to lose more money than dropping the client. If the government says no you can't drop Hobby Lobby but the banks alternative is going to cost them more. I don't understand how this type of structure would work unless the government basically runs the bank. 100 people have 100% of the capital in a bank. The bank does business with a company 80 of these people feel goes against their personal beliefs so they threaten to withdraw their money. Does the bank drop the company or let the 80 people leave and how would the government enforce this? |
