Most speakers costing $50,000+ use Seas, Scan Speak or Accuton.
In DIY forums most speakers designed use bargain drivers and usually are only 2.0 designs not bookshelf or center speakers to complete a surround system.
I’d love to have a Scan Speak 11 speaker system for atmos with 3 way bookshelves, center and floorstanders.
Why aren’t the designs out there and why are you guys pissing away all your money.
Personally I won’t get an upgrade from my speakers unless it’s of this caliber and neither can I afford nor want to donate money to these thieves.
A 3rd party 11 speaker atmos scan Speak system would be nice but I’m not spending $250,000.
Why on earth aren’t there designs out there for this and why do you all piss away your money?
I don’t get why hi fi isn’t all DIY even honest factory direct companies mark up 300%.
Unless you pull in $1+ million a year and don’t have any time I don’t get it.
Are you guys lazy?
Someone easily could design a great crossover and cabinets for everyone and the days of paying over $3,500 for a pair of loud speakers if you got some time or know a friend who could build cabinets would be over. I know of people who could design cabinets that rival $100,000 speakers and cost less than 1% than that. Someone with some experience could easily design a diamond, beryllium and soft dome and various versions for various tastes.
I don’t get it. Speakers are so simple. Crossovers cabinets and drivers.
You guys just throw your money away I don’t understand it why?
DIY is the way to go if one has the time knowledge and desire.
Of course most people do not. More power to those that do but not fair to condemn the rest.
I seriously hope narrow mindedness is not becoming too much of an epidemic these days. It's amazing the things some people will condemn others for sometimes.
"
Money, it's a gas Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash..."
*S* And all that and more is why I'll just continue f'n around building my little clones. Like a parent with a child with 'difficulties', they may not be Perfect, but they occasionally amaze. And I'm patient, they're definitely inexpensive, and I'm enjoying working on how to make them Better.
...and if they break, I can fix them. ;) I know the manufacturer. *L*
If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the OP could care less about the questions he's asking. He just wants to get everyone pissed off, and start heated arguments. Beyond that, he has no other goal. I would just ignore his posts.
My wife has enough shoes and bras to open her own store. What's the markup on those items?. A cousin has watches displayed on pedestals, some costing over $100K each. Fabulous timepieces, what's the markup?. I used to own the Jaguar XK8 convertible. Worth every penny, markup?. An Aunt has a custom staircase from Europe. Final total exceeded $100K. I know people that have multiple penthouse condos, and wear jeans every day. What do you make of those people?. Which has the bigger markup?
It appears a once great website, with informative threads, has been taken over by ............? Get a job, find a hobby, enjoy life.
If people had the skill, time and willingness to experiment, modify and test, a lot of money could be saved, no doubt. And there is a robust DIY community- I give huge props to those folks that are skilled and can produce good sounding gear, some of which actually gets made into commercial products. For many of us, it isn’t a realistic option. I remember building a few kits back in the day- it was fun, and I was figuratively shocked (not literally), that they worked! One of the nice things about hi-fi is that it is something the "shade tree mechanic" can do, circuit designs are readily available, lot’s of stuff is "known" about acoustics and design and parts are available. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. There’s a pretty good biography about the Wright Brothers that was published a year or so ago. They didn’t just "invent" the airplane- there were lot’s of people around the world working on the same problem- manned heavier than air, controllable, powered flight. Their success came not just from their mechanical skills as bicycle makers, but from their willingness to learn the science of flight, which was still a mystery at that time. Wing shape, control surfaces, etc. Apparently, Dayton Ohio at that time had more patents than any other place in the U.S. Unlike rocket science (which is a slightly more ambitious endeavor), DIY hi fi is fully within the reach of those who have the skill, time, etc. For the rest of us, we read fora like this one. :) enjoy~ bill hart
If these people are thieves, why don't they charge double their retail price? Simple economics: the price of anything is what people are willing to pay for it and what they are willing to pay goes up if the product is scarce and down if the demand is not high enough. No manufacturer would invest in the machinery and labor to make a $250,000 speaker system if there was no market for it.
knghifi, the reason I put "overpriced" in quotes was to point out that the term itself is not relative to what one can or cannot afford, that it is besides the point, and not a knock on those who can afford it.
I like MAGICO all there high end lines Q,M3 etc use there own drivers which are much better than Seas,Scan Speak or Accuton they sound much better as well.In the end you get what you pay for.
It's all about the implementation. It's the same tune of the advantages inherent to a manufacturer making its own drivers, yet going by auditions I've never found compelling reasons to favor the speakers of such manufacturers (the one exception perhaps being ATC, but being an exception may as well be a coincidence).
What's the point really in calling drivers to be "much better" just to continue saying "they sound much better as well"? I'm guessing that's the give-away: components being much "better" is so for being more expensive (or of a more expensive whole), but whether they actually sound better is not the apparent conclusion.
You don't necessarily get what you pay for; it's just a bollocks story the marketing people wishes to be sold as consistently true.
However, to state that Magico drivers are much better then Seas, Scan Speak or Accuton, just because they are made in house, is a matter of opinion and taste in sound. Some people love Wilson....but I would never own one. The same could be said for virtually any speaker brand.
BINGO! we have BINGO here. Of course it’s a matter of opinion.and personal preferences. One chooses to buy what they like the best.
Isn’t that what makes this hobby so crazy!
Isn’t this TRUE with every commoditiy? Do we all drive the same car, same TV, brand of ice-cream, lawn mower ...?
However, to state that Magico drivers are much better then Seas, Scan Speak or Accuton, just because they are made in house, is a matter of opinion and taste in sound. Some people love Wilson....but I would never own one. The same could be said for virtually any speaker brand. Isn't that what makes this hobby so crazy!
Because it’s super high end? 🤔 You were expecting?
Sound aside that infers a high degree of unique craftmanship as well as technical execution. It’s the whole package that matters. Service and support as well. Not just the sound.
How nice. He joined today to save us from ourselves. I don't want to be saved. The phrase "don't throw me in the briar patch" comes to mind!
Probably one of the troll's in Raidho thread with a new moniker. Padding each other on the back so SMART all they can afford is a receiver or boombox.
Like maxboy00 said, and before this all went sideways, there are small makes out there that make great speakers using the same drivers as the "overpriced" stuff mentioned. One that comes to mind is Clearwave Speakers. I own a pair and they are great. Check outthis latest reviewand see if they’re what you’re after.
All the best, Nonoise
The fact that there is enough demand to support these "overpriced" speakers for companies to stay in business is not
"overpriced". It might be "overpriced" for you but that's a different story.
I like MAGICO all there high end lines Q,M3 etc use there own drivers which are much better than Seas,Scan Speak or Accuton they sound much better as well.In the end you get what you pay for.
Like maxboy00 said, and before this all went sideways, there are small makes out there that make great speakers using the same drivers as the "overpriced" stuff mentioned. One that comes to mind is Clearwave Speakers. I own a pair and they are great. Check out this latest review and see if they’re what you’re after.
In my case I can’t afford a quarter million dollar plus system nor do I have the knowledge, patience and desire to do-it-myself. This is why I chose a middle ground which was to seek great value (i.e. not spend a fortune or do it myself). In this context great value means high quality sound, design, etc. with reasonable costs. Specifically, I chose Musical Fidelity, Golden Ear Technologies, Emotive and Oppo. The "value" these (and certain other) manufacturers offer is a major reason why they are successful and their customers can still enjoy audio/videophile experiences.
It's pretty simple, if you think it's stupid, don't do it. I really don't get why people are so concerned about how others spend their money. I submit there are differences and I can describe them in three systems that I'm familiar with.
1) my friend's system consists of Dynaudio Focus 340, ATI amp, Marantz preamp and CD player
2) another friend's system consists of Raidho C 3.1, Absolare amp and preamp, Burmester CD player
3) third system consists of Monitor Audio PL500's, Jeff Rowland amp, preamp, and DAC, Bryston BDP-2 digital player
Systems 2 and 3 are significantly better than system 1...both are more musical-meaning instruments and voices are more realistic and they sound like performers are in the room, as opposed to a recording; the details, both micro and macro are night and day better than system 1, when system 1 is pushed it becomes bright and loud
System 2 and 3 are just different as opposed to one being better than the other; I submit room size, the type of music, and how loud one listens will determine the best fit for the individual
Is system 2 and 3 worth the money compared to system 1? to some no! my friend that owns system 1 has heard system 3 and absolutely hates listening to his system right after hearing it. To me system 2 and 3 are worth every penny, at least compared to system 1!
I
wonder what it’s like to constantly upgrade components and claim that
banana plug made my speakers smoother and this processor opened up the
sound stage and this amplifier made my bass tighter and thus cd player
increased air when they are all 99.9% the same in 2016 this isn’t 1980.
That is like cult brain washing style stuff
There are plenty of small bouquet speakers company's that build and design high quality speakers using drivers you have mentioned. I would suggest that you check them out for youself.
I wonder what it’s like to constantly upgrade components and claim that banana plug made my speakers smoother and this processor opened up the sound stage and this amplifier made my bass tighter and thus cd player increased air when they are all 99.9% the same in 2016 this isn’t 1980. That is like cult brain washing style stuff. Many experiments have been done with placebo and stuff like this where lIke people were given corn syrup pills and told were pain meds with lots of side effects and fake acupuncture highly effective with no side effects. what a surprise people couldn’t even get out of the bed on fake pain meds and fake acupuncture patients were the best they felt in years. have fun with your cult just like the people who actually think the world.is still flat...like arguing.with one of those people who actually exist. this is a cult. it just frustrates me so much. well I’m done posting I’ve said my 2 cents bye now. maybe one day you guys will figure it out.
What makes me question people's sanity is that people are OK with this. It doesn't bother them. I don't understand home audio enthusiasts. They must know their amplifiers and processors and cd players and cables are all marked up to the extremes of up to 50000% over parts and labor yet they're ok with it. I feel like mugato in zoolander and screaming "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills". I can't think of a single industry other than home audio that is this insane besides Starbucks and mattresses but they aren't this crazy. Those are the big 3. Maybe expensive LCDS they make me laugh too.
They only upcharge the IPhone like 175% over cost to make yet it is one of the most sophisticated pieces of technology in the world only a a hand full of companies make smart phones because Joe shmo can't just go in to his basement and design them and build them...it's incredible....yet Joe shmo buys some bulk third party drivers designs some cabinets use fancy jargon like ferro cooling and a passive crossover and feels a 10000% mark up is ok. Biggest...conspiracy...ever.
There is an art to building crossovers and designing cabinets I agree but there are a few expert, brilliant people who did it online for free as a hobby. I know of a guy who even advises other speaker companies who makes his own. Paying an upcharge of 95% parts and labor doesn't merit the work that goes in the process. Many super high end speakers don't even use drivers as good as high end scan Speak, Seas or Accuton they use cheaper ones or raal is good too if you're in to ribbons not naming all of them. Basically if you can buy the drivers and crossover components yourself for a couple grand in a speaker like then you can call yourself a cabinet enthusiast and are paying top dollar for them to build you cabinets. You're spending $98,000 on cabinets. The von schweikert VR-9SE Mk2 $120,000 is basically just using madisound drivers and I'm assuming crossover components...you're paying what, $116,000 to build cabinets? They are ripping you off. Also designing a cabinet and crossover isn't terribly hard they say they're doing all this fancy stuff but they kid you with technical language. They have computer programs. Building the drivers are hard which is why most companies use 3rd party drivers. YG anat reference II greatest speakers of all time $125,000 just scan Speak Illuminator and fancy crossovers in cabinets.
I'd never design my own speakers but there are definitely people out there on the forums capable of designing some high end stuff that should.
Until that day arrives everyone in the high end game is cabinet enthusiasts since that's all you're paying them for.
It sometimes costs a lot and has a lot of engineering to build tvs, cars and computer components and and you don't see them with 9500% profit margins...
What makes something that people do in their basement deserve these huge mark ups?
I could spend what’s left of my night and give you the hard answer, or I could finish this post in 2 minutes and give you the easy answer. So here goes..
Yes I am pissing away all my money. Yes I like to donate money to thieves. Yes all hifi should be DIY Yes continue to not get it, as you’re right Yes I am lazy Yes anyone with "some" experience anyone could design a beryllium tweeter or cabinet to rival a $100k speaker (such as the Magico M3) Yes I throw my money away.
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