Most speakers costing $50,000+ use Seas, Scan Speak or Accuton.
In DIY forums most speakers designed use bargain drivers and usually are only 2.0 designs not bookshelf or center speakers to complete a surround system.
I’d love to have a Scan Speak 11 speaker system for atmos with 3 way bookshelves, center and floorstanders.
Why aren’t the designs out there and why are you guys pissing away all your money.
Personally I won’t get an upgrade from my speakers unless it’s of this caliber and neither can I afford nor want to donate money to these thieves.
A 3rd party 11 speaker atmos scan Speak system would be nice but I’m not spending $250,000.
Why on earth aren’t there designs out there for this and why do you all piss away your money?
I don’t get why hi fi isn’t all DIY even honest factory direct companies mark up 300%.
Unless you pull in $1+ million a year and don’t have any time I don’t get it.
Are you guys lazy?
Someone easily could design a great crossover and cabinets for everyone and the days of paying over $3,500 for a pair of loud speakers if you got some time or know a friend who could build cabinets would be over. I know of people who could design cabinets that rival $100,000 speakers and cost less than 1% than that. Someone with some experience could easily design a diamond, beryllium and soft dome and various versions for various tastes.
I don’t get it. Speakers are so simple. Crossovers cabinets and drivers.
You guys just throw your money away I don’t understand it why?
Well, if you buy a kit that is pre-designed like from @pbnaudio you can get excellent price/performance.
Learning good speaker design from scratch takes time. No, trial and error really is not the way to go. :)
Honestly, unless you want to spend several months learning about speaker analysis, measurement and crossover deisng, pre-built or pre-designed kits are the way to go.
I do think every serious audio hobbyist should build at least 1 kit in their lifetimes though. Doesn’t have to be very expensive, but you’d learn a tremendous amount, and help you appreciate really stellar commercial designs.
the web has sites for diy guys and they are very serious dudes. i am sure they make fantastic spkrs for much less. with software its not like it takes nasa to do this. its just that we dont have the trial and error budgets big companies have. hell even dayton audio sells kits that likely deliver big values. i have full rangers in open baffles and added a sub..it is a joke how little it cost and it sounds as good as spkrs i owned that were 4 times more costly
"In high end audio, as much as I love it, I do find a lot of similarities to religion. "
Amen to that Brother Man. They are both more than similar in this respect, whatever rings true, pretty simple in trying to understand the absolute unknowable, great discussion Doug and Prof. I appreciate and enjoy the discourse.
What might be the impact of show attendance upon a person's perception of value of a speaker? Is there a variance in show attentance which might explain the difference in perception between DIY and non-DIY?
randy-11, have you seen my review of the Audio by Van Alstine ABX Comparator? You may find that interesting. That's my forthright contribution to my own curiosity about ABX, and a gift to the community because I took significant risk as a reviewer to put on trial, as it were, my perception that the changes I hear between cables are real.
Somehow, I wonder if you will gleefully pick it apart, and if that's the case then so be it. I'm not interested in arguing about the work, but it will stand as is. As with my faith, so also in the experience of using aftermarket cables; I seek more than just an experience. :)
Regarding cables in your post above, you asserted, "another confounding factor is that changing cables often breaks up corrosion, which could have been done w/o using a different cable." Have you conducted blind testing to confirm your hypothesis? If not, then what makes you think it is so? I suggest belief. :)
To balance things a bit in terms of the faith/science dichotomy which is being discussed currently, on today's news at Yahoo.com there is an article about police apprehending a man who had a gun. The gun appears to be quite old, and the reaction on the Net/comments on the article of some is that this is evidence that the man has time traveled! Now, if you were to ask me I would tell you that there is not much chance of the gun actually having been transported in time, much less less the owner of the gun. That from a creationist! ;)
Now, I will say at the forefront of these comments that I do not accept human time travel, nor the existence of aliens for which there is little (I'm being very generous using that term "little") credible evidence. I consider it fantasy, a childish whim outside the boundaries of hard science and reality. I'm sure there are some people who might argue the "theoretical" reality of it. I'm unimpressed by such discussion, and you'll not soon change my thinking on that. I could mock people who hold such beliefs, and I do mean belief in the fullest sense of the word. But what does that accomplish? I would make me feel superior for a time, but would engender the disdain and even hate that exists too much in the world.
My point in bringing this up? I consider it to be faith, only of a secular kind, denying reality. I observe people of a secular dint believing all manner of what I would consider to be foolish things. Humans have been "wired" for belief, it seems. Let the Darwinists credit nature, and let me credit God for that. Either way, there certainly is no lack of faith exhibited by Naturalists in the existence of a knowledge vacuum. The atheist needs to watch when pointing fingers at the creationist for their faith, for there are as many odd and incredible things believed by those who I consider to idolize science as anyone. :)
Which brings us indirectly to aftermarket audio cables! Audiophiles such as myself might be mocked for believing in the capacity of cabling of various designs to confer sonic changes. Having conducted several interviews with manufacturers and exploring the designs which would be credited with the sonic changes I find it interesting that it is still considered a faith proposition by some. I do not see the argument about cables as a conflict between science and faith, but rather a conflict between theory and observation, which can only be settled by observation., unless one wishes to dump observation in favor of theory. When there are such profoundly weird things believed in the quasi-scientific or socio-political realms I don't feel too badly for believing my senses in observational practice of using power cords. :)
I have chosen to ridicule flat-earthers, birthers, and (quick) creationists along with other sub-scientific trolls because I have learned a lot about abnormal psychology through experience with them.
prof, obviously we see things differently. I respect that, and I appreciate your reasoned reply. I consider there to be a level of respect between us. I think if you were to scan some of my posts historically you would find that interjection of that sort is not characteristic of my contributions here. I believe that in the majority of instances in the last decade where I have contributed things pertaining to religion or Intelligent Design it has been in response to what I consider marginalization or misinformation. I have attempted to abide by the protocol of the forums where audio is to be the topic, and I have also attempted to steer the conversation back onto the topic of audio. After seeing many instances of derision I decided it was time to mete out a bit of what people of a similar persuasion to me have endured for years. In fact it happens with sickening regularity. :(
We have both expressed our opinions, and I thank you for the cordiality of your reply.
randy-11, you have chosen to ridicule rather than learning through experience. I used to be that way regarding cables; I understand much of the cable skeptic, or perhaps the cheap cable, thought process. "Lots" of money is a rather nebulous, slippery descriptor, and it doesn't help your objection.
I won't continue to draw into the discussion Darwinism, though based on your reply I could. I do not care to respond with an offensive retort, showing the marginalization that I requested not be exercised.
If you wish to discuss matters you will need to express yourself more maturely and logically. :)
Wow, what a thread. Starts off with a trollishly-expressed take on high end audio, moves partly to ID and religion after an irrelevant (and unfortunately ignorant) insert regarding evolution.
But...that's the internet. :-) (Not that comment threads can't move into other interesting conversations as well).
Fortunately there have been a number of interesting comments about hi end manufacturing and DIY.
I have ten thumbs and nearly turned my Forte Is into a pile of Klipsch spare parts in my first attempt at installing Crites crossovers. Thankfully I got it right the second time and was even able to swap out the tweeter and midrange diaphragms, but that tested the limits of my technical skill. Not to mention that I live in an apartment and don't have room for the power tools that I don't know how to use. Not everybody is capable of building functional speakers, never mind something that will compete with what $50k will buy you.
As far as the cost of high end audio goes: the prices are what the market will bear. If there are customers willing to spend $25k on a Mark Levinson amplifier, why drop the price to $2,500? Not to mention that parts are a small part of the expense: electroacoustic engineers don't come cheap, nor does the equipment required to produce several hundred or several thousand pairs of speakers.
Man you are in the wrong place to even question the sanite of an audiophile. I come hear because it's interesting to read some of the comments. I buy vintage and build my own big speakers now, jaws hit the floor when I have someone over. The sound is incredible, all vintage or vintage design. Everyone has their own tastes in systems and sound. I new a guy one time that had an old sears fishing boat from the 60's he always caught the biggest and most fish. Everyone wanted to go fishing with Animal, it was about the fun and keeping it real.
IF- there were a variety of high-end audio stores in your area, you could do a lot of auditioning- and then find a system that meets or exceeds the performance of certain super-expensive components for a good deal less. At least for your ears and tastes. Since that is not an option for those living outside of NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. the next option is to attend audio shows, the CES, etc. The 3rd option is to find someone in the neighborhood that will let you listen to their rig. If however all you have is 10,000 opinions about speaker cables on the internet, it really makes it hard to figure out what when where why and how. All i can say is i used to own B&W 801's and loved them--- until i heard a pair of Eggleston Andra's. which retailed for 3X as much. I was able to get a demo pair of Eggs and was very happy i had saved up for them. So... it took a lot of time and the ability to save up for something much better. BUT- I have no desire to build a pair of Andra's myself, thank you.
Most people are sold a dream--fooled by the fancy brochures and advertisements, and dealers who have LITTLE experience with other brands they don't offer.
Then they have to face the reality of being RIPPED off. The only way to learn is get out there and listen for yourself.....don't go for brand names unless you have the dough. Enjoy
Another thought; You don't see Rolls Royce's and VW's sold out of the same showroom. Yet everything in audio is lumped together. A bit strange. My concern isn't the megabuck speakers but rather the $20,000 speaker becoming the norm. Oh well, my house can't hold anymore anyway! Joe
Music, and it's reproduction, are one of the unique creations of humanity. It soothes, it excites and it provokes thought! Music expresses our emotions and deepest desires. Music entertains, enhances, complements and conjures up moods and atmospheres otherwise unnoticed. Music is the language of our souls! Insane? Incorrect? Hobby? Really? It is a most noble endeavor that speaks to the very core of what it means to be human. Music and any pursuit to re-create it is consequential....music is our souls water! Without it we are not truly alive.
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