Why pay so much for super high end?

There is an art to building crossovers and designing cabinets I agree but there are a few expert, brilliant people who did it online for free as a hobby.  I know of a guy who even advises other speaker companies who makes his own.  Paying an upcharge of 95% parts and labor doesn't merit the work that goes in the process.
 Many super high end speakers don't even use drivers as good as high end scan Speak, Seas or Accuton they use cheaper ones or raal is good too if you're in to ribbons not naming all of them.
Basically if you can buy the drivers and crossover components yourself for a couple grand in a speaker like then you can call yourself a cabinet enthusiast and are paying top dollar for them to build you cabinets.  You're spending $98,000 on cabinets.
The von schweikert VR-9SE Mk2 $120,000 is basically just using madisound drivers and I'm assuming crossover components...you're paying what, $116,000 to build cabinets?
They are ripping you off.
Also designing a cabinet and crossover isn't terribly hard they say they're doing all this fancy stuff but they kid you with technical language. They have computer programs.  Building the drivers are hard which is why most companies use 3rd party drivers.  YG anat reference II greatest speakers of all time $125,000 just scan Speak Illuminator and fancy crossovers in cabinets.

I'd never design my own speakers but there are definitely people out there on the forums capable of designing some high end stuff that should.

Until that day arrives everyone in the high end game is cabinet enthusiasts since that's all you're paying them for.

It sometimes costs a lot and has a lot of engineering to build tvs, cars and computer components and and you don't see them with 9500% profit margins...

What makes something that people do in their basement deserve these huge mark ups?

I guess there are a lot of easy marks out there.

They only upcharge the IPhone like 175% over cost to make yet it is one of the most sophisticated pieces of technology in the world only a a hand full of companies make smart phones because Joe shmo can't just go in to his basement and design them and build them...it's incredible....yet Joe shmo buys some bulk third party drivers designs some cabinets use fancy jargon like ferro cooling and a passive crossover and feels a 10000% mark up is ok.
Biggest...conspiracy...ever.

What makes me question people's sanity is that people are OK with this.  It doesn't bother them.  I don't understand home audio enthusiasts.  They must know their amplifiers and processors and cd players and cables are all marked up to the extremes of up to 50000% over parts and labor yet they're ok with it.  I feel like mugato in zoolander and screaming "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills".
I can't think of a single industry other than home audio that is this insane besides Starbucks and mattresses but they aren't this crazy.  Those are the big 3.  Maybe expensive LCDS they make me laugh too.

I wonder what it’s like to constantly upgrade components and claim that banana plug made my speakers smoother and this processor opened up the sound stage and this amplifier made my bass tighter and thus cd player increased air when they are all 99.9% the same in 2016 this isn’t 1980. That is like cult brain washing style stuff. Many experiments have been done with placebo and stuff like this where lIke people were given corn syrup pills and told were pain meds with lots of side effects and fake acupuncture highly effective with no side effects. what a surprise people couldn’t even get out of the bed on fake pain meds and fake acupuncture patients were the best they felt in years. have fun with your cult just like the people who actually think the world.is still flat...like arguing.with one of those people who actually exist. this is a cult. it just frustrates me so much. well I’m done posting I’ve said my 2 cents bye now. maybe one day you guys will figure it out.

The whole point was is that it doesn’t take all that much time or effort to build high quality speakers that someone has designed for you. Either that or you have a friend who can build you cabinets because most Americans do. Making a crossover is incredibly easy and soldering is actually pretty fun. Building cabinets is actually fun too for a lot of people.

Time is not an exscuse. That’s just a random thought you guys come up with on a spot because I don’t know you’re afraid you’re wasting your money?

If you have time to listen to your speakers AND rant and rave with me on Audiogon you got some time to build some cabinets and crossovers. It takes a day or two. And if someone designed a sophisticated enough cabinet and crossover for you, which is entirely in the realm of reality, you could get $100,000+ speakers for a couple of grand. You could build Focal Grand Utopia BEs if someone with some experience took some time to make designs for just a fraction of the price probably save $170,000 off their $180,000 price.  

And this isn’t a constant hobby that requires constant attention. You build them in one or two days and you’re done.

This is obserd. "I don’t have time"? Figuring most of you are paid $100 an hour or less with designs in hand, in a couple of hours you can basically earn $10,000 an hour being a speaker builder saving yourself tons of money.

And you guys are all defending these mark ups? Why? What do you owe them? Many people don’t realize they’re just buying 3rd party drivers and a moderately easily (with the knowledge in hand) designed cabinet and crossovers. I didn’t know that and when I found out I was pissed. I never stopped to think about it. People are commenting on mark ups aren’t taking in to account that while you need a lot of knowledge to design crossovers and cabinets, you need beyond amateur skill to replicate it. beyond amateur.


So go on saying you "don’t have time" or "every other industry marks up" which is ridiculous rebuttals. Keep feeding this crooked industry the one that I’ve grown to hate with a serious passion.

Mb1 audio of course most diy speakers aren't as good as high end.  a lot of them use budget bang for the buck drivers like Dayton etc and the cabinetsame while sophisticated could be improved.

My point is there should be a site like diyaudio.com where there are several designs that people with extensive building knowledge design 150-200+ lb cabinets with high end drivers and crossovers instead of budget designs that would actually put a dent in the scam market there is today.

I'd personally prefer to buy retail but hey I refuse to be scammed.

If enough people decided hey....I don't want to buy $25,000 speakers any more and pay a 1000% margin on cost to build...then they will drastically lower prices.  There are too many speaker companies anyways there are thousands.  There are only a hand full of car dealers, tv manufacturers and cell phone makers.  These huge, huge margins allow 1000s of small companies to exist because they make a fortune when they sell 1 pair of speakers.  People don't understand they're being scammed...if they did they wouldn't do it.  

No amplifier should ever cost more than $5,000 to buy.  No 10' 100% copper speaker cables should ever cost more than $150 to buy.  No processor should ever cost more than $5,000 to buy.  No Source player should ever cost more than $1,000 unless it's 500 disc capacity.  No pair of speakers should ever cost over $10,000 unless it's something crazy like a line source or special circumstances.


If you guys keep paying the margins out of ignorance then they will keep reaping the fruits of it.


Even though the diy revolution will probably never happen I have a feeling a factory direct speaker company is going to off set the market in the next 10 years...


Someone is going to design  a 150 lb well built cabinet with super high end drivers and an excellent crossover and you will get the highest end 11 channel atmos speaker set for like $12,500 and it will rival $500,000 systems but the placebo reviewers will gawk at its low price and say it's ok when in reality they'll be the top speakers on the market.


Can't wait for it.

Then another factory direct company will follow suit...and soon there will be a handfull of companies with flagship speakers rivaling speakers costing 100 times their asking prices.  Super high end scan Speak, dynaudio oem and Seas designs and accuton ...all for pennies compared to the high end world.

It already started when SVS released the PB16-Ultra for $2,500...arguably the greatest commercial subwoofer on earth for $2,500.

If SVS or Aperion or Ascend Acoustics released a full scan Speak Illuminator speaker with excellent cabinets and good crossovers for 4 way full range floorstanders and $5,000 and a 3 way bookshelf for $2750 and 3 way center for $1,750 it would change things.  The d3004 is considered by a  great many as the best tweeter in the world same with their 4.5" midrange...and their woofers are considered of the best too.  
The amplifier market and processor and sources and cables will probably be that way until a 60 minutes episode comes out.  Even then people have been used to the Idea that $20,000 for an amplifier is normal...they won't go away for a while.


It will end one day just who knows when.

Placebo is just so incredibly powerful people donot understand it. Why do people think drug trials are done with a placebo for control? It’s so incredibly powerful in people’s psyche that if you give someone a sugar pill and tell them it’s a sedative that makes you hungry and tired people will gain 50 lbs in a few months and sleep 16 hours a day. People have been given fake alcohol and literally most of them would act drunk. there have been so many placebo trials done that it’s well documented in the scientific community.


If you compare a $2000 amplifier to a $30,000 amplifier and are told the price difference and one looks fancier and are told in a review it’s much better then you will generally believe you are hearing something better due to the review and the price they charge. same with a lot of things I home audio...

Placebo is powerful that fake pills when told are real can work because your mind is so incredibly powerful that the belief can cure things...they are actually trying to harness the power of placebo for medical advancements in the brain...that should give you insight in to home audio

Sounds real audio...scan Speak has been around since 1970 and spends just as much on their research and development. They’re under an umbrella that also owns audio technology (skanning) and dynaudio. Their drivers are used in commercial designs costing several times over $100,000 and get the "I want to mortgage my house for these" type of reviews. Their D3004 tweeter (fabric and especially their berrylium) is usually used when someone wants the best tweeter on earth. Skanning woofers are used in the most expensive Sonus Faber speakers. Many people consider Scan Speak’s 4.5" midrange as the best on earth. In a few years once I feel comfortable to drop about $12,500 on speakers I’m building an 11 speaker atmos setup with DBX Venu loudspeaker management components (digital crossover, equalization, etc all in one device) which far exceeds even the best most expensive passive crossover technology in fideltiy by a lot and costs a fraction the price. I will laugh and get off from the fact that people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for performance less than that I’ll have. I’d build the subwoofer too but SVS actually did something very special with the PB16 ultra at a reasonable price. Dual of them makes Wilson Thor’s Hammer and subwoofers of the likes seem like ginger beer for 90% less. I’ll just have to pay an expert to setup the DBXs and make me some designs for cabinets. Far far easier than designing a crossover. Far easier. Worth it!


I forgot to mention that in the title...designing a fantastic cabinet isn’t all that complex. You could pay one of the few DIY experts that are on the Internet such as HTGUIDE some money to design cabinets for you and then just use an active crossover. That’s one of the advantages about DIY is using loudspeaker management devices like DBX Venu 360s. No passive crossover on earth can touch them and having an expert set them up in an afternoon and it’s easy peasy japanesey. You’d have complete  control over your loudspealer with 31 band or parametric equalizers and crossovers and set delays...basically a true flat response way better than passive and without the passive components degrading the sound quality which they do not matter how good they are. Build speakers not only comparable to 6 figure speakers but better and it's not....that.....hard.  But by all means sheep waste your money on  $20,000 or $50,000 speakers and feel super cool instead of having something better for a few thousand dollars that requires a few hours of fun work.

The point is there should be no 6 figure home audio or even 5.

There is no other industry with mark ups like this. The only thing even similar without extensive research and development costs and big mark ups is matresses but home audio makes their mark ups laughable. Some things do have a good amount of Research and development that costs hundreds of millions annualy and do get margins to make up for that like computer processors and graphic processors and projectors and other tech industry stuff but these "high end" home theater and audio companies produces the highest margins of cost to produce that I’m aware of on planet earth on the retail market and on top of that their research and development costs are minimal.
Even scan speak and seas and accuton take huge huge margins on their drivers which is amusing and they’re the big 3 suppliers on the market.
The kharma Enigma Veyron EV1 at $1.5 million which I haven’t confirmed but I think is still using accuton diamond tweeters and midrange? $1.5 million? If it were considered art I’d say ok but it isn’t art sold at Sotheby’s.
No speaker on earth should ever cost more than $4,000 no 7 channel amp more than $4,000 or speaker cable more than $100 for a 10 foot pair.


Hopefully one of these days a factory direct speaker company comes out that uses all scan speak illuminstor or seas high end and does what these 7 figure speakers do but not price rape you.

I’m just going to guess to everyone in here is GOP first you guys don’t believe in climate change and now you’re suckers for an insane incorrect hobby. I just know this is a GOP hang out I can tell.