McIntosh always reminds me of equipment owned by a middle aged guy who listens to Sinatra or Perry Como lps on still dressed in his work suit in the evening with a cocktail and maybe smoking a cigar or pipe. He'd usually also have a new or newer Buick, Olds or Caddy sedan parked in the driveway.
I first started to get interested in stereo gear when I was about twelve in 1970 and I noticed a lot of my friends' dads had McIntosh. I remember them all sounding very good and being told by everyone not to touch any of it.
I've always thought of it as good gear that lasts a lifetime and kind of looks like it. As I starting building my own systems, I never really considered McIntosh gear seriously because I considered it not very exciting, kind of like your old man's equipment.
All stereotypes I know. But I still have the same impression even though I'm now a dad and middle aged. No offense intended and I know it's mainly good stuff because some of my more conservative friends own new and even classic older McIntosh gear.
Tim
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I have listened to numerous McIntosh products through the years. I've also had 'heart-to-heart' talks with McIntosh dealers. Bottom line is that McIntosh tube products tend to sound much better than their solid state counterparts. Overall, if a comparison was to be made between the product lines of McIntosh and Audio Research, Boulder, Rowland, or several others; McIntosh would consistently come up short. McIntosh looks good and reliability is a strength, but to say that McIntosh is in the same league as the aforementioned companies is simply not true. |
@tlong1958
By all means, start any thread you like. I don't own Audio Research gear presently but I have, like McIntosh, owned some in the past, very recently as a matter of fact. While you didn't mention in what role you worked at the dealer, "exploding crap" may be a bit strong don't you think? While I have never experienced one single failure of any Audio Research item I have owned in over 20 years, they did service a piece for me once that had a minor shipping mishap. Like McIntosh, their service is exemplary. I have heard of some ARC owners who have experienced a tube failure where it took out a resistor but I also never ran the tubes to zero, so I never experienced that. It's my understanding that was how it was designed though. Neither ARC nor McIntosh have handled USB perfectly though. Its a shame that the group has basically mishandled the Wadia part of their portfolio, its all but a footnote in the digital world now.
@stevecutler
I agree with you regarding the glass/silkscreen. At least they went to fiber lighting a few years ago which solved the bulb changing requirements. |
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@ghasley,
In regards to USB implementation, ARC have made a giant leap forward with their latest PCB914 board. My ARC DAC9 recently came back from ARC with this new board and I am happy to report that it’s pretty darn sounding digital to analog converter. ARC’s newest CD9 SE and CD6SE has the same USB board.
With Linux and 2xDSD compatibly, 16,24 and 32 bit support they are now up to speed with the competition.
The customer service experience was excellent. The work order was completed in 3 working days. |
@lalitk
That's terrific news. And I'm a fan of Audio Research but its unfortunate it took this long to roll in with a modern digital implementation.
McIntosh seems to shoot themselves in the foot digitally by their repeated USB failures. Firmware update after firmware update, clicks and pops, moments of silence at the beginning of tracks, etc. As mentioned earlier in this thread, at the Overture demo they used a Bryston transport rather than feeding from a USB. I wonder if this was to avoid a USB mishap? The McIntosh fanbase forgives.
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Yes I agree, ARC took their sweet time to get USB right. I had to wait 2 years for this upgrade. I don’t think McIntosh is doing very well with their reference D1100.
I believe both McIntosh and ARC are very much analog at core. Their digital components are always been step or two behind the competition. |
I run a Mac C2500 Tube pre-amp with 2 MC 2300's and the are pushing Sonus Faber Cremona's and Cremona M's. I play my albums on a Michell SE turntable. The sound is true and alive and you pick up every minute sound of the instruments. I have heard many other systems and they are analytical and lifeless compared to my Mac set up. Everyone has there own expectations of their system. I remember most of the albums that I listen to when they 1st came out in the early 70's and saw many of the albums performed live. The reproduction of the music is close to flawless to the old live shows. As every one says Mac's aren't for everyone, but I don't have to buy something new every year to try to improve my sound. |
Much of the "intelligence" surrounding this brand is decades old and some of it is generations old. The brand hasn’t stood still, however, and this is coming from someone who’s ambivalent about autoformers.
But old stereotypes die hard. I’ve never heard a Mac amp that didn’t sound good and I’ve heard several which were absolutely spectacular.
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@noble100 said it! I find the stuff pretty ghastly to look at -the green LEDs lighting up the small signal tubes being the nail in the coffin. |
When I Started to upgrade my 40 year old system a year and a half ago, I thought I would be buying McIntosh amps but I didn't like the way the McIntosh amps in my price range sounded so I ended up going in a different direction. |
@noromance
“@noble100 said it! I find the stuff pretty ghastly to look at -the green LEDs lighting up the small signal tubes being the nail in the coffin.”
the green lights under the tubes remind of the Happy Days episode where the Fonz jumped his motorcycle over the tank with the shark. Jumping the shark has evolved to mean the beginning of the end of something, which I don’t believe applies at all to McIntosh....at least not until they begin to use carbon fiber.
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McIntosh has fine products. The trademark looks and bling is a big part of the appeal. Lots of robust competition for the asking price these days compared to many years ago where much of the competition was Made in Japan. BTW those vintage made in Japan units from back in the day seem to have become somewhat trendy again these days in that asking price for ones in good condition these days are often more than original cost but somewhat less than many competing new products. |
Most unlikely combo award goes to: My neighbor.... driving his 30yr old Cerwin Vega D-9's with a brand new $4500 McIntosh Amp that I procured for him. He wanted something good, US made, and loved the big blue power meters!! The Mac.... a clear upgrade from his 30yr old Onkyo Integra amp (with big green power meters). I think the Cerwins sound dreadful.... but he's retired, plays music all day, and his system makes him very VERY happy........ that's what it's all about folks! |
I've owned a wide variety of ARC pieces in the last 30 years (I have 3 ARC pieces in daily use right now) and I've never had ANY explosions (or problems)................... |
McIntosh today is a Financial Instrument for Private Equity Groups to broaden their investment portfolios. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with Audio Greatness.
This story started when Quadrivio - an Italian PE group who was known for their investments in the frozen foods market started an audio holding company called Fine Sounds. Under this banner Quadrivio bought, Acoustic Research, Wadia, Wolf Cinema, REL, Sumiko and McIntosh.
McIntosh then merged with LBO & Yarpa and bought Fine Sounds from Quadrivio - it wasn't cheap. They have since re-branded as The McIntosh Group. They are now a producer of Fine Audio Lifestyle Equipment. Their commitment is solely to their share holders who demand guaranteed returns on investment.
In order to meet those demands compromises have been made which is why these companies have become Homogenized. Their products are good enough to command their price points but not great. Which is a shame because they were all pushing towards greatness earlier on before being absorbed. The companies that would not compromise were ultimately, re-branded into what you see today - Wadia, or they cut and ran away- REL and Wolf Cinema.
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I had a MX130 that I tried out for a little while using it as a tuner with my existing system.
It sounded good. Had a nice soundstage & presentation. To me the sound had a bit of bloom - designed in.
Compare that with my Magnum Dynalab FT-101 tuner which had no bloom, and just delivered truth.
Great for some, but not for me.
I would like to hear a set of MC275 amps though... |
"Back in the Day" I started with a Dynaco ST70 and as soon as I could afford it I moved to a MC 240 and after that a MC 275. Each step "Back in the Day" was a quantum leap in improved sound. I got to the point that I soon owned 3 MC240's, 3 MC275's and an assortment of McIntosh preamps --- and still do !
I will admit that my present system has taken turns to more modern equipment, but I still own tri-amped speakers and fantasize about employing ALL of those McIntosh amps to drive them into Audio Nirvana! Age and a lack of physical space are confounding that dream.
A special shout-out goes to a special favorite, an MC32 preamp which has every audio nuance at your fingertips. I remember fondly, a shootout between the phono sections of my MC26 preamp and an older MC110 Pre/Tuner. The old MC110 won, hands down ! Tubes, don't you know ?
I had built a duplicate set of speakers for a dear friend who coveted mine, and we, at one time, had a showdown between his Marantz 8B amplifier and my McIntosh MC275 amp. They BOTH were superb, but we both agreed that the Marantz was more "clinical" and the McIntosh was "sweeter". Remember --- same speakers !
MacIntosh equipment is something you can live with for a long, long time without longing for change. Is there better equipment ? Measurably, perhaps ---- musically, perhaps ---- esthetically, perhaps ---- and on, and on and on.
This hobby has given me some of the more pleasurable times of my life, and it continues to give --- every day.
I spent my career as an orchestral musician and can honestly say that the joys of performing in a 100 piece symphony orchestra were, on many occasions, matched by sitting in front of what I considered to be a great audio system. Don't lose sight of that aim of our beloved hobby. Music is the aim ---- equipment is the vehicle that gets us there. Cheers to all !!
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I’m listening to a MC2125 and C28 combination right now that has been in my family since the 70’s. It’s not the last word in resolution or grain free but I’ll tell you it is fun. It has great rhythm, is smooth and controlled with all music.
When I really want the kind of presence and clarity that makes me think the singer is in the room with me I love Leben tube gear. Some class a Luxman amps are also great to my aging 45 year old ears.
Ive owned newer Mac gear but never held onto it. I think there are too many other options that sound better to me. As for the MC2125 and C28 I grew up with, I hope to grow old with them too. Much fun. |
Guess I'll jump in a tad here. Long ago, in the time of tiny audio journals, Denon direct drive TT's, Sheffield Labs... I found a good, knowledgeable McIntosh dealer. My mistake was buying 70's solid state, tho a big sonic jump from the 110w/per Pioneer receiver. After a few years, it did sell wonderfully well. McIntosh flew under the radar until the 1990's when the journals began to review and like the newer solid state products. One must keep audio history in mind here. Matching up gear was in its infancy before the web illumined our hobby. For example, my big mid- 70's McIntosh MC2200 amp at 250W per was no match for large panel Acoustat 2 + 2's, nor big Maggies, Apogees, and other difficult, low impedance loads of the day. I strongly suspect this contributed greatly to McIntosh falling out of favor with the reviewers. My more recent experiences with McIntosh have been with the POST ANNIVERSARY MC275 tube amplifier. I've had occasion to hear this amp on Thiel 3.7's, a smaller 2 way Joseph floor-stander and some Magico S3's (the less dry newer design.)
One day, I can see myself fading into a musical sunset with an MC275...a pair of appropriate Harbeths...source be damned!! :)) More peace! Pinthrift |
To Stevecutler, Mac has been successfull selling their products with the glass front since the 70s, why change it or why change now? You wouldn’t want to put a polycarbonate windshield on a Ferrari would you?
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FYI...The MC 2200 was rated, by Mcintosh, at 200 wpc, not 250 wpc. |
I took the leap to Mcintosh product a while back. I have a C2500 pre-amp. It beat out AR, CJ and VTL. It has two internal phono sections, MC&MM plus multiple line level inputs and an internal DAC.
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The first great stereo I heard was in 1971 and it was a simple Macintosh pre and power amp... It changed my life... I am 63 now and finally got a Mac pre but had to buy a A21+ as a amp due to cost... The preamp is a C41 and is so smooth and quiet and pleasing it's relaxing and peaceful up here now. I went thru a few good pre's but in the end I knew it was going to be a Mac that would work for me. I want simple and clean and that is what I have now... it has taken over a month for the amp to settle down but everything is there. I wanted to go all Mac but with the power I needed to run my speakers { i had a MC 7100 but my speakers ate it up lol } I couldn't afford that road. Maybe one day... The A21+ is amazing and I am happy........ would like the blue light show to be honest! :) |
mrdecible...thanks, but check the tests. Pin |
...the tests of the day...my greater point was, of course, speaker load match-ups of the day was far from general knowledge. More Peace, Pin |
I’m late to the Mac party probably because I considered the brand snobbish. The current products I’ve heard are impressive for their price, power and sound. Not for budget shoppers, but definitely for anyone considering next level brands like krell, mark Levinson, Classe and the like. The MC611’s took my Blades to another level from the softest volumes when I wouldn’t expect power to matter.
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" lifeless sounds" @lalitk is very accurate description.
Their sound is flat and slow, it becomes the style, at least as far as I know some people love it. It make people related and release during the listening, who doesn't care the the music itself but will get relax from the listening.
Old guy in China and Japan are the main customers.
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@runwell
Ignorant comments. I wonder if you have ever even heard Mac gear. They didn't become famous for selling bad sounding gear. By the way, what are you famous for? It couldn't be sentence structure.
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@roxy54 what are you talking about? Famous brand doesn't meaning good for everyone! McIntosh 's sound has their feature and people in hifi field just don't like it. I tell the true fact! What the problem with you? You are stay away if you comment that way.
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@roxy54
+1
@runwell
Not sure if you have heard new McIntosh components. You may be echoing the old McIntosh sound. I have a pair of MC611s and a C2700. It is one of the most musical combinations I have heard in many years. I would compare the mid-bass/bass response to anything out there. Yes, it's not the most revealing on the top end, but the music just sounds real!
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@jeffreyw
He obviously has no idea of what he’s talking about, as you say, just echoing old, tired opinions, and then he says it’s fact and gets offended!
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@jeffreyw to be clear, I am talking McIntosh 's sound is good or bad. Any brand has its feature. I bought new McIntosh pre and power many years ago and use it for many years, and then sell it out and move to audio research. McIntosh is not hifi sound, the sound is flat, slow and a little more on bass, still slow. You are use it for many years you know what I am talking about. I might buy it back in the future as it is really feeling relax when listening. We are talking the sound and each of us just discuss the sound and nothing personal. I will like the one to touch personal matter to stay away.
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@jeffreyw my model is 352,and pre is 2100 if I remembered right., both tubed. I also listened 611 which is newer model. I don't think McIntosh changed their house sound. The sound changed very small. I know someone love that sound. Enjoy the listening.
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@runwell
I do agree that we all hear things differently. McIntosh's house sound has undoubtedly changed over the years for the better. However, to qualify McIntosh as "not hifi" is a little BS. I auditioned many products before buying my system and kept returning to McIntosh. I would love to perform a blind listening session of McIntosh vs others for the "uneducated." I think the results would convert many! I, too, was familiar with the old McIntosh sound and was biased because of it. I kept an open mind, and thankfully, I have found a system that is as real as it gets.
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I agree Jeffrey. My 611’s sound dynamic, yet smooth. Pairs well with my B&W’s.
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I have been steadily improving my audio system for now more than 50 years. Among power amplifiers, I have owned Mark Levinson and Krell (both Class A). Now I own McIntosh 611 mono power amplifiers. In my system, the resultant sonic reproduction is simply better than with my predecessor amps.
I am repeatedly amused by these claims regarding how a particular component sounds. The only valid observation is how the system — residing in the room — sounds. All I can say is that what I am able to hear through my system in my room is mind-boggling fantastic (and my audiophile friends concur), and part of the reason is my McIntosh power amplifiers.
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Happy New Year and enjoy the listening! Who care other people's comment? You just enjoy yourself.
McIntosh really bring us the joy! I do agree.
By the way, MA352 is solid state amp. I remembered wrong as I am on skiing this morning.
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I listen to a metric ton of really high end equipment. Much of it is quite analytical. McIntosh is a lovely warm sound. A natural sound. The sound of live performances. I am sold on my McIntosh / Sonus Faber System.
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Going on 13 years with my C220 preamp that I bought used from Audio Classics. Great purchase. Sounds terrific, lots of useful features. No desire to upgrade except to higher up the McIntosh line. I recommend it wherever appropriate, as they are usually available used.
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Don't know why some hate on McIntosh. I have had a few pieces of Mac gear and it was good. My Dad recently picked up a MA8950... what a great Amp. I could definitely be happy with that Amp.
One thing about the Mac gear I once owned, it was super reliable and I sold it for more than I paid for it after enjoying it a few years.
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McIntosh Mc901 very good.
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That was a detailed endorsement.
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I just picked up a pair of vintage MC-30's from Audio Classics and find them to be one of the best / most enjoyable amps I've ever owned in 30+ years in this hobby. Amazing to me that gear from the 1950's can sound so damn good!
Other Mac gear I've owned has been a mixed bag...
- MC275 MKV was very good and enjoyable. Recommended.
- MC220 preamp was just "ok"... felt music was a bit veiled, but I probably could have coaxed more out of it with tube rolling.
- MC2275 tube integrated was disappointing. Very soft and veiled sounding.
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