WHY IS THERE SO MUCH HATE FOR THE HIGH END GEAR ON AUDIO GEAR?

@jimmyblues1959 +1

@audioman58 love your post.  Truth! 

This is an alleged conversation overheard at an electronics store in the Mall.

“Honey, look at what they want to charge for that stereo equipment.  Isn’t that just ridiculous?  They are just a bunch of thieves hoping to sell a few units and get rich.  No way could cost it that much to make stereo stuff.

But dear, it does sound nice and looks pretty.

Yeah, but it is way too expensive.  My system sounds just as good as theirs and I did not spend anywhere near that much for that junk.

Our system sounds nice, dear, but this does sound a little better.

No, it doesn’t.  You are just hearing things.  And even if it is better, it costs sooo much more which just proves how greedy these people are.  
A lot of this stuff is just snake oil.  They lie to you about what all that stuff does when it is just electricity and sound waves.  Ridiculous.
They build stuff that only the rich people can buy.  It is not fair.  There should be some way that no one can charge this much so everyone can get what they want.  It is just not fair.  
Look at how much those speakers cost.  I could buy a new car for that.
Look at how much they charge for those wires, $2000.  That is asinine.

Now dear, you are letting your blood pressure get too high.  Maybe, we should just leave.  I need to go to the grocery store, we are nearly out of cigarettes, beer and ice cream.  

Not yet, I want to look at the new 90" OLED TVs.  

Why do you want to look at those?  We just got a nice 65" TV 3 years ago.  These large TVs are sooo expensive and really not worth it.

Honey, sure they are.  Just look at the image; it is gorgeous.”  
 

I pretty much think the same as you ...

The goal of audio thread for me the first one goal is to partake ideas about the way to reach a minimal acoustic satisfaction threshold at the best cost ...

Bragging about high end gear is useless ...

Even high end gear need to be embed in the right mechanical, electrical and acoustical conditions anyway ...

The cost of a system dont matter . the goal must be optimize  what you own ...

Price tags dont matter , acoustics science matter if we want to reach the best with what we have or with what we must purchase   at the lowest possible cost ...

@mahgister i researched the hell out of every component speaker and sub in my system using the knowledge that I gained in this hobby over the years. For example my Gato speakers were designed by a former senior designer at gamut. I researched them to the hilt. Say that they were similar to a speaker twice the cost. Realized he designed that speaker for another company as well I ordered it. 9 years later still my reference. My amps and Dac have design elements that have zero noise floor and implement design elements to provide power and limit distortion at every turn. I was the ear for the cabling that we use at the company. So even though the system is expensive I just didn’t pick stuff because it was expensive but it met the design and performance elements that I sought. I have room challenges so it needed to perform in my conditions and it does that well. It’s not about what you spend. Design, performance, environments, personal tastes and equipment matching are all important. Truth of the matter is some of the higher end equipment build quality and design lows it to achieve things sonically that most other equipment just can’t reach. However you can still get pleasing sound out of a well put together system without spending a crazy amount of money.

@firstonetallguy and our wives will go and spend 2,3,4,5 hundred or more on a purse and justify it. 

not to mention the bottle of Scotch that sold for $2.1 Million yesterday...certainly high end audio is a tiny little world in a huge economic/social/political...

I couldn't care less about who has what, whether it's more than all I spent on cars in 4 decades. What bugs me is the attitude. Which has been discussed 100s of times, nothing new to see here...

Much of the time I suspect that the "hate" is directed more towards the person posting about the HE gear and not the gear itself (especially some repetitive posters with a single brand, or two, that they relentlessly post about).

Then there are the posters who systematically "hate" EVERY HE thread with some having their on niche (cables for example).

DeKay

A buddy of mine is very wealthy and his stereo is a boom box, I needled him in the past about that and he just says that is all he really needs.

He owns several high end cars, the usual suspects.  We were out in one of the Ferraris and got caught in a traffic jam.  The guy in the next lane is staring at the car so I say "Hey, how you doin'?".  He comes back with (sneeringly)  "Better than you are!".  So I ask "Why is that?".  He replies "Because I'm ahead of you and your half million dollar car!"  And he was...going 2 mph in his Camry he had me by a bumper.  I just smiled.

He may have been beat to much as a pup.  

Envy is a terrible vice.

Regards,

barts

@barts I don't see your point. There could be many reasons other than envy for his comment. It could be the opposite, he was very happy with his Camry and didn't need a Ferrari to feel good about himself. You asked him. Or maybe he just tried to sound witty. Your assumptions say more about you than him. 

@dekay reading the reply is exactly why I made the post and how people make legitimate post personal or they turn it into it being about selling smthg etc. I left audiogon a few years ago because of this reason.  I’m posting about it because I wonder.  Take care. 

@everyone the journey is different for all of us.  Some of us in the high end.  Some of us arriving at a system and being completely pleased with whatever equipment you can afford. Enjoy what you have and get back into the music. 

@calvinj although I agree with you, given the negative reactions to your innocuous post, as a dealer and therefore someone who can be characterized as biased and/or self-interested (probably unfairly), it is best to refrain from making a similar post in the future here. Envy/spite is rampant across the internet as other have mentioned, and even when a social commentary post like yours is not directed at an individual, anyone who has ever posted out of envy/spite is going to unconsciously pick a fight with you - on some level no one likes to be reminded (even indirectly) that he is not a baller. As for envy/spite, the ballers laugh their asses off at the haters not just on hifi but houses cars chicks jets yachts art etc. Either you're a baller or you're not, better to live with the fact than roil/baste in self-loathing.

@kairosman i agree with you as well. I have seen the negativity rise again and again. I left audiogon a few years ago because of the the rudeness. The nastiness that has nothing to do with the question I asked.  It becomes personal real quick. No worries I will not be posting in this subject again.  But reading some of the responses.  Learned a lot about different audiophiles.  Their thought processes. Which ones that I care to have discourse with. Which ones I don’t.   People that don’t know you and your journey and how they will make assumptions about you and why you post.  The crazy part is most of us are are 40,50,60,70 years old and don’t understand how to interact with grown men and women who are in our hobby.   Learned a whole lot.  There are those who I enjoy talking to.  Then there are those who take it personal.   If you reading this and you got a problem with what I post. Do what I do. Keep scrolling.  Be happy! 

@grislybutter 

Honestly I don't see how it says anything about me.  I was driving a buddy's car on a pleasant afternoon (he was in the passenger seat).  I was polite, he was not. Maybe I didn't describe the situation clearly enough, I guess you just had to be there. If you can read more into it than that I have no answer for you.

"Your assumptions say more about you than him". Not from my perspective.

Regards,

barts

@barts right, I wasn't there, I could be totally wrong. 

@calvinj  Music is the soundtrack to life.

What a great line!

@calvinj

Why did you use all caps in the title of this thread?

@knock1 music is. I do this for the music.  When people try to say I do it to sell gear I get agitated because it’s disrespectful to me and the music. Lol. I enjoy listening as much as I can. When I retire 3-4 hours a day minimum. Lol 

@cdc simply because someone said I could and shouldn’t.  I will not do it again but I had some interesting responses. Anyway.  THIS IS AMERICA! 

There are many websites like ANA and even here on agon that have people think their $299 stereo amp has the best sq of anything out there or that cables don’t matter. But on those naysayer websites, I’ve questioned them many times about why they are using a pair of $50 cables and not the $.02 cables that come with their components and their replies are always the $50 cables sound better but that’s the cutoff ($50) where you get diminishing returns. You will find audiophools all over. 
I also agree with the OP, I also think that people who can’t afford high quality components make excuses like their cheap stuff sounds every bit as good as the expensive stuff or that they are just jealous that people want to get the best sq they can which normally means you have to spend some money. Same goes for everything else in life: homes, cars, art, etc

Simplistic argument facing a complex problem...

You forgot those who own costly gear systems in their living room that sound not so much good as it could be even if it seems to sound only marginally better and merely different more than better than a low cost gear system ... ...Go and visit show room too with costly system  ...verify my claim ...

Guess why  this is so ?😊😁

Ignorance does not reveal itself only through poor gear choices at low cost but also with those with 50,000 bucks system ...

Then guess why i am right and that mechanical, electrical and especially acoustical working controls devices matter more than the price tag ?

For sure a 1000 dollars amplifier will not generally work at the acoustical level of a 10,000 bucks one , save for some exception , but an electrical,mechanical and acoustioal controlled environment matter way more than the price tag if we want at least cross over the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold, and this is true for all system at all price  ...

What i say is not in any gear manual owner , guess why ?

😊

it is not good for the business to sell gear that cannot work at their optimal level without  the thinking owner  in the obligation to work and taking care of these three working dimensions , nevermind the gear level and price ..

The seller of costly amplifier or speakers who will reveal that any gear at any price will work imperfectly in a non controlled mechanical,electrical and acoustical environment is not born till this day ...

guess why ?

They want to sell you a perfect plug and play system and convince you at this price tag that you need nothing else than their product for sure ...

Believing this is ignorance , the true ignorance which plague rich as poor owners ...

Acoustics rules audio not price tag ... And if you think that i spoke about acoustic panels here you have understood anything yet...

There are many websites and even here in agon that have many people who think their 20,000 dollars amp and speakers is perfect plug and play and the end of the world and who laugh at people like me owning low cost gear ... the ignorance is not necessarily with people like  me ...

There are many websites like ANA and even here on agon that have people think their $299 stereo amp has the best sq of anything out there or that cables don’t matter. But on those naysayer websites, I’ve questioned them many times about why they are using a pair of $50 cables and not the $.02 cables that come with their components and their replies are always the $50 cables sound better but that’s the cutoff ($50) where you get diminishing returns. You will find audiophools all over.
I also agree with the OP, I also think that people who can’t afford high quality components make excuses like their cheap stuff sounds every bit as good as the expensive stuff or that they are just jealous that people want to get the best sq they can which normally means you have to spend some money. Same goes for everything else in life: homes, cars, art, etc

I got back into audio almost 4 years ago, and found and joined this forum shortly after in hopes of learning about all the new things that have come out in the last 40 years.  It has been interesting, but I also found that I am not going to be at the level in this hobby that many others here are.  First, because I only have so much money. Second, because I found long ago that when you are beginning any new hobby that requires expenditures, it is better to balance one’s level of purchases rather than spend a lot on one piece of equipment and skimp on the rest.  My choices are “good enough for me” though less-than for others.

I have been impressed to find all the different brands of equipment, designed in various countries.  I had no idea before that any of these things existed beyond the mass market name brands.  I thought, “I wonder how they knew about that . . to buy that?”   I don’t go to audio stores to sample equipment, and I don’t live in a big city that has much variety.  I assume that some members here learn about these esoteric brands from audio shop owners and by going to audio fests where such equipment is previewed.  

Lastly, I’m practical (and old) enough to know that the things I have enthusiasm for will be different than those interests of loved ones I might leave my equipment to when I die.  They might not care at all about my stereo system — might prefer to listen to their phone and earbuds.  They likely wouldn’t know (or care) what my equipment cost or what they should sell it for when settling my estate.  Thus, even if I could afford to buy some very expensive and exotic equipment, I don’t want to leave the burden to my survivors to try to get the value back out of it.  It would be easy enough for you, or even me, to find out what something is worth and where to list it, but for most people they probably wouldn’t know where to start.  They will already be grieving, I don’t want to add to their burden by having to decide if an offer they receive is fair or a ripoff.

@bob540 all great points.  I started in the hobby as a hobbyist. I actually sell gear now but I enjoy the music more than anything else. I looked at some of the responses and some of them are on the nasty side.  I’m ok with that and I’m not complaining about that.  Those that have nasty comments about or think I’m schilling or just trolling I don’t want anything to do with.  I’m past all of that. I’m going to be happy and enjoy the wonderful system I have been blessed with.  

I have no problem with high end gear. I do, however, have a problem with some of the explanations that are given for why the stuff sounds better, and how the fact that it does sound better is determined. It’s OK to say nobody has a clue, which seems to be the case much of the time. Maybe it’s a trade secret. Maybe it’s some unknown physics. Maybe it really doesn’t sound better in a blind test but works on the mind somehow when you see it and know the story behind it. I’m of the mind that if there’s an audible difference it will be easy to measure if someone gives it a decent effort. Stuff that sounds different measures different. I’ve never experienced anything contrary to that. I'm not talking about how an individual component  measures on a test bench, but the actual results that come out of the speaker from the entire component chain. I'm pretty sure that some components like DACs might measure perfect on the test bench but then do something "interesting" when connected to a pre-amp, which causes the end result coming out of the speaker to be noticeably and measurably different. 

What I'd hope to see from high end gear is a relative freedom from issues like that. My idea of a high end DAC is one that is stable and accurate even into difficult loads, although it shouldn't ever have to see one because it should be hooked up to a good pre. It would also be exemplary for ease of use, good looks, robustness, and reliability. I think a lot of high end gear meets all my requirements. But so does stuff that costs a lot less. So it leaves me scratching my head over why the price gets so high on some of this stuff. It seems there's a little alchemy involved with intentionally going "out of spec." to produce a custom sound. Similarly with coffee, above a certain price point there's no more quality to be gained. You just get into specialty flavors from rarer varieties. Not inherently better, but definitely different. 

Why do people mistake skepticism for hate?

I’m not sure if this is an audio conversation or a philosophical debate. Here’s my take, as unpopular as it may be. I’ve had the means to chase most if not all of the vices I assumed would fulfill me. Probably more voraciously than most. 

This year I reached out to God until He reached back. If you knew me, you would recognize the change is in no way insignificant. Rest feels good. 

If I found a free audio product, car, woman, drug that was a game changer, I’d tell you no doubt. I haven’t, but God is changing my filthy heart. Just like audio, you can read all the reviews, hear all the stories, and follow the popular opinions, but in the end you should try it out for yourself. 
 

Peace

Many enthusiasts are OCD, and OCD can be prone to outbursts. I have many friends so constructed and have learned to let it roll off of me because I otherwise learn a lot of new things from such folk.

@uncledemp 

That's an interesting post. Some say there is only one God, but all seem to agree there are many facets to this God, making it difficult to determine precisely where "God" stops and other things start. Take the trinity, for example, or angels or other things that are above man but below something else. There's never just one, single part to it. I'm of the opinion there is no clear line of demarcation describing what is and isn't "God." So you reached out to some part of God, and some part of God reached back, and the message was "try it out for yourself?" If so, that's similar to my experience. The words in my case were more like "I can't make subjective decisions for you. You'll have to decide for yourself what is important to you." 

@asctim 

Sir, your post has the makings of a long, enjoyable conversation! Very deep subject matter indeed. Simple and complex at the same time, for me anyway. 
 

Thanks for taking the time and effort to write, all the best to you! 

@asctim perfect post. We look at this stuff and put too much into it at times.  In life there are way more important things. 

The way people toss around the word “hate” these days can often be a bit much.  
A convenient way to dismiss a contrary opinion; “you’re just a hater.”  
Not mature, not constructive, and probably a projection.

Audiophiles are punchlines in society.  
The general perception seems to be, “socially inept, affluent, middle-aged white dudes oozing snobbery while listening to Diana Krall, Eva Cassidy, Norah Jones, and Brothers in Arms, Aja and Dark Side of the Moon for the trillionth time.”
I don’t think I’m tellin’ tales outta school with that, as far as general public perception is concerned.

Perhaps people haven’t heard high-end hear because they can’t afford it, have absolutely no reason to even consider pursuing it, and have 0 friends that have such gear.

There are lots of groups that obsess over their one little thing and don’t seem to carry the same stigma of brazen snobbery as audiophiles.

Cliches often become such for a reason.  
“Audiophiles are lame, snobby jerks” is no exception.

The problem with "cliches" is that they are not even true or wrong , they are caricature asking to be slogan and wanting to be repeated ...

i obsess with my low cost audio system because it gave me the eternal joy of music listening ...

My wife with a ears loss and looking at my modified speakers (100 bucks ) think that i am nuts but no snob jerk ...

As you see there is exception all are not snob , some are simply "nuts" , myself i prefer to say of myself acoustically informed but it is too pedantic generally to say such thing , then call me "nuts" ...😁😊

«I will love to hate sometimes  but it is too much work»--Groucho Marx 🤓

Cliches often become such for a reason.
“Audiophiles are lame, snobby jerks” is no exception.

@mahgister im sound obsessed.  Every little detail. Soundstage depth width air realness of instruments decay etc.  not afraid to admit it. 

I am like you sound fanatic if i am honest ...😊

But I am proud about the fact that i based my research on creativity and on the acoustics and mechanical and electrical factors upon which i can work at low cost ...

I am not obsessed by gear... I cannot afford costly pieces of gear...

Anyway i succeeded with my last small speakers modified to create relatively more than just good sound for the price invested ...

But my refence top system is headphone... I used one of the top headphone in the world and the best of AKG ever ( his k701 for example is trash compared to the K340  even the K240 is not at all in the same ball park, the K1000 has no deep bass  ) ...I modify it a bit and optimize it after  6 months of experiments ...This hybrid is so astonishing now than upgrading it is too risky business ... How many headphones can give a perfecy imahing and holographic, and a  soundfield out of the head and a natural realistic timbre with deep clear  bass at any price ? ( easy to verify with big organ music)

Dont look too hard very, very few headphones,  if they exist ...I dont need to buy one at 5,000 bucks ...

I am proud of creativity not of my gear collection ...

then there is different obsession types about sound ... 😁

@mahgister im sound obsessed. Every little detail. Soundstage depth width air realness of instruments decay etc. not afraid to admit it.

@mahgister i been blessed. I have worked my way into my setup in various ways. I’m blessed. But I don’t only look at price. Im picky. Technology used is important. Design elements is important.  The importance of low noise floor with musicality. I found this in INFIGO AND GATO 

@calvinj

Why not just ask Audiogon or some other chat site to add an "ultra high-end" forum? With the understanding that those haters are not welcome.

@cdc they will find a way to pop up. It is what it is. We all have our vices.  Lol. 

So too are pride, greed, and avarice. 

Envy is a terrible vice.

I admired high end gear...

If i could afford it i will buy it ...

It is the only way to create new tech. and downsizing it at affordable price for the mass  with the time passing ...

People dont hate high end , they reacted to the impossibility to buy it ...

But there is not only high end design for the S.Q. end goal in audio ; there is also plenty of contributing factors at low cost that will make shine a low cost system so much, as mine, that we can live very well with this minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold ...

Among these low cost factors there is the mechanical, electrical and acoustical working dimensions...

If i had not been blessed by a low income to begin with , i would have never experimented acoustics and learned  other system embeddings controls homemade for more than a full year full time ... Never , it would have been easier to buy panels and called it job done with way costlier components ...

But my limited  wallet dimensions  were a benediction finally ...

Now even if it is not  for sure at the level of high end , my audio system is so good that i almost pity most of those who can afford it more than i really envy ... I learned a lot with fun  ... So is human nature between envy or pride  ... 😊

+1 @mahgister Nicely written. My constraint is guided by my internal bang for the buck barometer using components that provide the best possible sound for the investment. I could allocate more resources to the higher end but there is no need. I've heard many very expensive systems and prefer mine for the most part. Being able to modify the electronics, and indulge in real tweakery, for relatively low cost has brought great satisfaction. 

My one gripe with the high end is the plethora of uber-expensive components where it is obvious that the profit margin is extremely high. In some instances,  I would feel exploited no matter what I could afford. 

This is where I’m at. I don’t believe in randomly spending money on high end gear. I think you have to have the means and mind to do so.  If you make the money spend it how you want to.  But make sure you are getting your money’s worth based on your own standards. I have had experience with a lot of high end gear.  Some of it is truly special to my ears some is not. I love great soundstage with low noise floors with depth and width.  I want detail with musicality. I want it to sound live. The electronics must be able to deliver fast and must layer the music and instruments well.  I have a lot of requirements. I’m blessed to be able to afford what I have. But I didn’t randomly buy anything.  I researched the hell out if it.  I gained knowledge from people in the industry as well as fellow audiophiles.  I also listened to my own ear. Spending a lot of money on random gear will get you nowhere. I pride myself on trying to do a great system maximizing the dollars I spend. I think you have to do what fits you. Also some  companies do put a lot of work in developing unique great sounding gear. So pricing is up to them. You buy it or you don’t.  If it gets you where you wanna be it might be worth it to you.  MUSIC IS THE SOUNDTRACK TO LIFE! For a lot of us it’s our way of getting away and maintains our sanity in this cruel world. 

+1 noromance

+1 calvinj OP

I believe the manufacturers are big blame with the Huge increase in pricing products. Get rich and price it to wealthy people. Audio done correct is knowing how to combine gear to get its best out of your system. Not that different from Auto business .Lots of HIP and less deliver in terms of the goods delivered.

I have noticed the vitriol as well (I think we all have).

It started around 2010 (or 2012 if you go to the Steve Hoffman forums). I can see exactly when the threads began being nasty (mid 2012). From what I can see, before I left that forum over this very subject (hatefulness) , the majority of members there have very modest equipment, and have never heard the truly High End equipment. (Or they heard it, and it was set up badly, but, since it was at a dealers, it MUST have been set up right, and the sound was just crappy and not worth the price!)

I was an audiophile back in the early 80s, and it was a "Golden Age" of sorts, with astounding advances in equipment. And prices were not stratospheric, either.

But more than just the equipment itself, I’ve also come to realize that most of the people commenting on forums have never been to a symphonic or jazz concert back at a time when they did not use microphones for every instrument/performance. And 48 track for recording (and we can thank the Beatles for that! (and I love the Beatles!)). So, they have no idea how music sounds in real life without a zillion microphones blasting at them thru a mediocre system that doesn’t reproduce the dynamic nuances, which are the very essence of life music (acoustic, I repeat) and not miked. I have asked, time and again, if they go to acoustic music concerts. I can't recall a single response being "yes" when I asked that. They have no experience with live, unamplified music.

On top of that, most of these people also do do not trust their ears, but how could they if they do not know what "the real thing" sounds like? It also does not occur to the people on forums in 2023 that the goal - back then - of audiophile designers (for the most part) was: trying to design equipment that could sound as "real" as possible (with all of the dynamic/steadystate/transient pluck/imaging and soundstaging attributes one would hear live) , and that meant acoustic instruments. Since most people don’t listen to that (and never did), how can they be expected to recognize what is objective reality (the actual sound of an instrument - or voice) in person? They believe in what "sounds good to me" and not what is objectively closer to a recording of a properly recorded instrument/voice/performance. They just can’t relate. So they sneer and bash instead. I would imagine that that same sentiment applies to other areas of their life, as well. Seems a rather miserable way to live life, but it’s their life.

I concur with your post speaking about people with no knowledge of high end gear and no musical knowledge or education in classical and jazz who bashed and insulted calling people snobs ...

But you forgot , between the fewer completely informed and the mass of ignorant , the crowd of the partially informed, even with high end products , gear fetichist in some way, with no knowledge about acoustics and system working embeddings electrical and mechanical controls, braggingt about their favorite costlier piece of gear ... Acoustics with an (s) is not simple room acoustic by the way ...

Psycho-acoustics rule the gear not the reverse...And not price tag ....

I have noticed the vitriol as well (I think we all have).

It started around 2010 (or 2012 if you go to the Steve Hoffman forums). I can see exactly when the threads began being nasty (mid 2012). From what I can see, before I left that forum over this very subject (hatefulness) , the majority of members there have very modest equipment, and have never heard the truly High End equipment. (Or they heard it, and it was set up badly, but, since it was at a dealers, it MUST have been set up right, and the sound was just crappy and not worth the price!)

I was an audiophile back in the early 80s, and it was a "Golden Age" of sorts, with astounding advances in equipment. And prices were not stratospheric, either.

But more than just the equipment itself, I’ve also come to realize that most of the people commenting on forums have never been to a symphonic or jazz concert back at a time when they did not use microphones for every instrument/performance. And 48 track for recording (and we can thank the Beatles for that! (and I love the Beatles!)). So, they have no idea how music sounds in real life without a zillion microphones blasting at them thru a mediocre system that doesn’t reproduce the dynamic nuances, which are the very essence of life music (acoustic, I repeat) and not miked. I have asked, time and again, if they go to acoustic music concerts. I can’t recall a single response being "yes" when I asked that. They have no experience with live, unamplified music.

 

On top of that, most of these people also do do not trust their ears, but how could they if they do not know what "the real thing" sounds like? It also does not occur to the people on forums in 2023 that the goal - back then - of audiophile designers (for the most part) was: trying to design equipment that could sound as "real" as possible (with all of the dynamic/steadystate/transient pluck/imaging and soundstaging attributes one would hear live) , and that meant acoustic instruments. Since most people don’t listen to that (and never did), how can they be expected to recognize what is objective reality (the actual sound of an instrument - or voice) in person? They believe in what "sounds good to me" and not what is objectively closer to a recording of a properly recorded instrument/voice/performance. They just can’t relate. So they sneer and bash instead. I would imagine that that same sentiment applies to other areas of their life, as well. Seems a rather miserable way to live life, but it’s their life.

 

viridian

...hate is for audiophiles, not the gear. Completely deserved ...

Hate is a very strong word. Why have hate for a fellow human? Why so angry?

I acknowledge there are a few unpleasant people here, but they're easy to ignore. Hate isn't required.

Some bullet points based on perceptions of what’s under the bell curve. The modal demographic. For context.. I’m a 58yo audiophile. Supposedly. In the hobby since the 1980’s.

- Young ppl (under 30.. maybe even 35 to 40yo’s in cities) tend to live in apartments (so headphones) or their parents homes.. so, headphones.. or if lucky, a minimal near-field system with a cheap computer, PlayStation, Apple TV or Wiim as a source. They don’t want to see our expansive spreads of hardware.

- Older people (traditional audiophiles) tend to own their homes outright and spend a lot on gear.. they can leverage their home equity.. have a dedicated room.. a yard as a buffer zone.. and home audio is after all a part of our homes, and complete systems can now easily cost more than was paid for the home originally. The market has shifted to reflect this low-volume, high profit margin demographic as SFR home ownership diminishes and MFR’s flourish.

This is systemic in many areas of the economy and (imho) largely because of Federal Reserve banking practices over the last four decades as a response to the fear of 1929 reoccurring.

- High-end audio can now be described (somewhat metaphorically) as male jewelry.. ’the big watch’ ..with opulent superfluous finishes where the cosmetic attributes of the gear could even describe something pre-Bolshevik.. an ostentatious attempt in visually underpinning one’s supposed affluence by owning it. However.. unlike a watch.. it’s personal.. you don’t flaunt it in public, but you may invite people over to enjoy it. It is largely personal but it’s more than that.

- Young people hate this. Perhaps they want theirs but can’t afford it.. and likely will never be able to because of student loans and the unlikely prospect of ever owning a real home to enjoy high-end home audio (let alone spending an additional $50k on their system cabling for an extra 5% in performance). They may reject all this merely in principle. They are stuck with a ’hot-head’ in their headphones. Literally.

I personally respect (and prefer) companies who cram quality components, a mountain of R&D and passion.. under a cost effective utilitarian surface, but if someone wants to opt for a $5k up-charge for their speaker’s hand-lacquered rosewood, carbon inlays or hand-burnished rhodium contacts.. go for it. I won’t agree, nor complain.. but others might.. and it might get passive-aggressive.