Audiophile product fraud would be rather difficult to prove in court. And that’s why Better Business Bureau, Consumer Watchdog groups, Consumer Reports, Bureau of Consumer Protection, FCC, NIST, AES, Journal of Physics, or any other consumer protection group does not (rpt not) respond to requests for investigating an audiophile device or tweak on the suspicion that the device either has claims that are false or that the device is an outright fraud, and does nothing. What would the judge’s instructions to the jury be, see if sound is more transparent, or the if the bass has more slam? Cut me some slack! The real advantage of audiophile tweaks is they make good conversation starters. Caveats emptor, your results may vary, enjoy the music. Smoke if ya got em.
Why is the snake oil topic closed?
Because debunking certain aftermarket accessories might affect Audiogon’s revenue? I don’t get it. There were points to be made. It was just getting "good."
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" To be cured though, required the belief that one would be cured. All religions are based on this concept as is much of the audio industry in the 21st century. " This is nonsense and the very reason that this thread was closed is because it offered a clear and decisive path towards proving this snakeoil and fraud claim for once and for all yet those who assert this claim were unwilling to pursue this path and instead posted derogatory remarks about those with who they disagree so vehemently just as you have done here. So again I extend the challenge that those who argue that fraud is the basis of audio need only to take they’re case to court and this matter will be resolved but of course the naysayers do not engage that solution because they would rather insult the readers here as they proclaim themselves to be immune from the confirmation bias that they insist is at the basis of the fraud they allege! As for snakeoil being the basis of all religions you are obviously ignorant of the truth here so please go ahead and prove your claims about audio rather than just attack those here who do not think everything sounds the same but it is pointless to continue to just argue it here the matter has been settled your claim is without logical basis and that is why the thread has been closed your argument has been made and proven false! |
What is reality? Is reality a concept that is individualized? Is reality different things to different people? You bet it is. 150 years ago there were many people "cured" by the likes of Dr. John's Miracle Elixir. To be cured though, required the belief that one would be cured. All religions are based on this concept as is much of the audio industry in the 21st century. |
In as subjective a hobby as is musical appreciation, and as well, adoration of fine musical reproduction, science does not always have the last word. Merely possessing the ability to allow other people to be other people is a significant display of maturity and emotional stability. So is being able to agree to disagree. Where it becomes combustible is when camps collect and decide they must win the day by converting the opposite bands to their own opinions. Mean spirited, piling on, condescending, duplicit, redundancy, snarkyness, all of these add up, I think as with recent past thread removals, Admin simply gets tired of removing individual posts one after another incessantly, and then decides to drop the thread rather than to keep flaging member’s poor remarks. Simply count the ‘post removed’ notices. That will tell you if a thread is headed in the direction of deletion or removal. I feel, the member’s name should remain, but their comments vacated. Maybe they’ll get the idea after enough public embarrassing deletions of their remarks. I mean, if a person’s input is so bad it should be taken down, leave up the member’s handle, just delete their words. Thread removals are in spite of the orig thread’s focus, it is due to the feedback which is input onto it from members who ignore the fact freedom of speech is not license to defame, belittle, or slander, another member or the topic itself. I think it’s an efficiency thingy. Why keep a person eyeing the same volatile thread which is garnering outlandish feedback. I do not agree with removal of a thread due to some members careless, thoughtless, or injurious input and or outright vulgar objectifying or inflammatory violent language, if such things were not written in the thread’s premise. Don’t kill the message. Cull those who ignore policy. Deleting threads due to a wealth of offensive posts, enables impowerment to any subsection or group which decides to take down any thread by merely blasting it off the forums due to biases, prejudices, plain dislike, or for any reason these camps might derive. If member’s desire to open mouth with out putting brain in gear, and or applying restraint and respect within the context of their posts is impossible, or if they demand vulgarity be used to describe their thoughts… ban them. Not the thread. Suspend those whose verbal assaults fly freely. Bar those members temporarily which continue to defame and bash and choose libelous assertions or are just plainly displaying rage.. If they repeat, increase the term of suspension. If they still repeat? Deny them any further rights to post to or generate threads of any kind. Its simple. As for merely just plain dumb goofy, juvenile, or stupid remarks. Well, you can fix ignorant. You can not fix stupid, but it is easier to overlook dumb stuff. And yes. Decidedly the level of displayed angst, anxiety and ire increase online with strong regularity regardless the venue. Why not? Anonymity cloakes everyone. Take out your ire online! It is an increasingly popular global pastime. Its all about inappropriate ‘entitlements. Everybody gets a trophy! Everybody is a winner. There are no losers! You are just as special as anyone else. OMG. One fix might be to force anyone to use only their legit verified full names. Audiogon, for that matter, would not be the first ones to implement such a requirement. Maybe, if we could no longer hide behind a veil of obscurity, we’d have to start talking to other’s like we were face to face in the real world. If not fully with respect, but with thoughtfulness or consideration at least. Say what you mean, mean what you say, don’t say it mean. Simple stuff. |
Why is the snake oil topic closed?Because it had no place being in a "Technical Forum" just as this thread. Both should be in the Misc Audio forum where anything goes. Cheers George |
The reason that comments have been turned off for the thread in question is it should be obvious related to the challenge initiated in the original posting which was that socalled naysayers who claim snake oil and fraud should prove their case in court and reap the rich rewards they would earn from exposing such a broad conspiracy. They can not prove their claims no matter how loudly they assert their assertions that those who hear such differences as they deem impossible to detect must be somehow intellectually or genetically deficient as is evident to those who read the responses that moderators deleted in that thread prior to closing it down. This matter should settle for once and for all this tired debate by those advanced minds who come here to instruct the rest of us about such matters as confirmation bias and other nonsense that renders insignificant, flawed, or invalid the listening impressions posted by the users of this forum. I am proud to to be the creator of this thread that has settled this issue so that we need not return to it again. |
Thanks, Jl35. My post that you are referring to appears near the bottom of this page: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/why-do-people-feel-the-need-to-buy-expensive-cable?page=9 Best regards, -- Al |
The snake oil thread isn’t closed, it’s here.The thread is in fact closed, although it has not been deleted, meaning that the response box and consequently the ability to submit further responses to the thread are no longer present. And it no longer appears in "related to you" activity listings, apparently as a consequence of having been closed. Regards, -- Al |
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Forget my previous lament about the neighborhood: it’s the whole planet. We’re being dumbed down at an alarming pace. To annihilate a thing so it cannot return or rebuild or know what it was and what was taken... is to annihilate the living memory of it, the social/cultural flow and the minds which can carry it. What do you see happening in the west, in general, right now? It's the oldest tactic in the book, being used on the internet/information era. Slow going, but it can still be done. |
It's the way of the world. Turns out we're not all the civilized after all. Too many people get off on being rude, offensive and attract like minded individuals. Everything's being viewed through a tribal lens. Polarization is preferred over connection. Contrarians seek the higher ground. Grudges held as a deed for intent to use another time. Has anyone noticed how this place has been getting closer and closer to a YouTube forum? This used to be a nice neighborhood. I noticed it a couple of years ago at other sites, usually related to audio mags, where in the comments section, there was an unfortunate amount of profanity and derision being bandied about. I've even seen casual profanity and unwelcome slang on watch sites. I expected car sites to attract the knuckle draggers but watch sites? Forget my previous lament about the neighborhood: it's the whole planet. We're being dumbed down at an alarming pace. All the best, Nonoise |
war does not a good forum make. If you allow the loud and the rude, the forceful, the pressuring, the insulting and bickering..and so on..if you allow such types and behaviour into a bar and allow them to do as they please..they will form a clique and be of that behavior to all other patrons. Sooner rather than later, the population of the restaurant will be just those few overly forceful and rude argumentative types. Everyone else, the others who were the regular patrons, will be gone. 20 regular mudslingers and a thousand missing patrons. It’s a simple equation. The other thing needed is a REAL forum format. With real moderators and a real force, when it comes to eliminating those who desire to force their opinions on others. The forum, the business, and the multi billion dollar model itself is dedicated to the people who hear differences in gear of all kinds and types... Anything else is against the entire reason for the the audio equipment to even exist. Any one who denigrates another for saying they hear a difference in a thing, whatever it may be...and that person continues to denigrate and attack, even after one or two warnings...needs to be eliminated from the forum membership. And their IP banned. End of story. |