Why is the snake oil topic closed?


Because debunking certain aftermarket accessories might affect Audiogon’s revenue? I don’t get it. There were points to be made. It was just getting "good."
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Showing 7 responses by jji666

Yeah there were some snarky posts.  Ironically though the posts were getting more serious and polite as it went on.  
I agree coke is better and once you get used to diet coke you like it better than regular coke.  And Chicago style thin-crust is way underrated compared to New York style thin crust.
By the way I agree with those who call for civility.  These are not life and death debates.  I'd like to think of the Audiogon crowd meeting for a drink at a bar with a good, eclectic DJ.  
I shouldn't have asked.  Apologies to serious audio fans.  I need to go take a shower. 
Well for one thing as a serious audio fan that honors science and engineering, it can be kind of embarrassing to be associated with some of the more ridiculous tweaks that some support here. And occasionally it can feel like someone is trying to rip one off.  (I do acknowledge that most tweakers don't push tweaks on others and stick to the "different strokes for different folks" mentality).  

I think it is just a matter of degree:  I'm sure many tweaks have some effect.  Some clearly cannot. Then some are so extreme so as to represent a caricature.  

What is impossible is that a tweak is not measurable but still effective. It's possible instruments are not sensitive enough yet.  But the concept that a tweak would be impossible to ever measure, but still effective, makes no sense.  
I'm just a guy who loves music and audio gear and believes that common sense should prevail in determining which after-market accessories should or should not make a difference or at least which are worth pursuing. There could be a civil, interesting conversation had about this, even if it was had before.  

Instead, what you have here, I am sorry to say, are a few other voices like my own drowned out by some pretty odd/extreme folks on both sides of the debate. 

Now I do understand why Audiogon closed the prior thread.  Unfortunately it's a little like closing the picnic basket after the ants have already gotten in. 
I'd like to chime back in here.  I think what is appropriate or inappropriate relative to forum participation in certain threads depends on the context and the purpose of the thread:

(1) When someone asks the community for advice on the best power cord, fuse, interconnect, or other tweak, they are not asking for a naysayer to jump in and troll the thread by offering a link to Amazon to buy $1 fuses and a marker to make it blue or red.  They are asking a question of those who believe in the efficacy of the product to share their experiences, and it is the naysayer who jumps in and does so that is the one trolling that thread.  If stated in a civil fashion like "as I have said before I do not believe this tweak to be effective" that would not be as insulting as some of the responses I have observed.  

(2) When someone poses a question about whether a given tweak is effective or not, they open the forum for believers on both sides to lay out civil thoughts and arguments about the product; but not for people to start attacking each other personally or trolling the thread by posting elusive, sarcastic, or otherwise non-responsive posts.  Just stick to the debate in a civil fashion.

(3) When someone posts an attack on the tweakers or the naysayers, like the original snake oil post that was shut down, that I unwittingly revived with my OP, they are opening the floor to whatever is said on both sides.  That said, I do not feel it is civil to post such an attack.  My take is ClearThink's post was a diatribe that invited the vitriol that appeared on both sides and it became not only counter-productive but downright uninviting except to those who love to fight.  And fighting is not the purpose of forums - it is for the exchange of information and ideas, and sometimes entertainment (but not fighting).

(4) When a tweaker posts to promote a tweak product, they open the floor for it to be debunked. This is not the same as asking for someone's advice on the best version of X, Y, or Z or even a question as to its efficacy.  Rather if the intent of the post is to promote a tweaky product, the floor is open both to support the product or to debunk it, and you have to be willing to live with both.  But let's stay civil.

(5) There are those who obviously have a financial interest in the matter of these debates. I think those posters should best think carefully about what they post as the financial interest strains credibility.  I would also suggest that those with a financial interest should not be seen as posting sarcastic or otherwise chaos creating posts simply to misdirect the debate so as to make it more difficult for a civil discourse on the topic to proceed.  I see that going on at times as well, similarly to how Mr. Trump's tweets are intended to enflame people in order to sidetrack what might otherwise be a reasonable discourse or fair debate.  

I propose these thoughts to try to parse out what is fair game in different contexts.  Reasonable minds may differ.