Why hasn’t B&W ever entered the ultra hi-end for speakers?
beyond the 800 series?
B&W are a high end speaker company. They do very expensive speakers. Their flagship is the nautilus which is $60k a pair excluding the 8 monoblock amps required to make them work. There are more expensive speakers but they are not very good. Price is not an indicator of quality. Kef LS50 cost under one thousand dollars and are supposedly the best small speakers in the world. The price can be set as high as the speaker company likes. You should focus on QUALITY not price. |
It's most likely a business reason. B&W has a set price area for their product. They also have a large amount of capitol in custom manufacturing equipment. Couple that with an already set distribution network. As long as they can keep producing and selling, there's no real reason to jump into the "insanely expensive" category. And yes, point of diminishing returns is definitely a factor. If they marketed a new speaker at the $80k-150k level, the amount of sales would be significantly less. I actually think they do amazing things with their current speaker design at the price point (diamond tweeter, curved back custom manufactured speaker cabinet from multi-layers of thin wood, etc.). |
B&W speakers are an ok speaker, not anywhere near the best, way overpriced for what you get. They have always been too analytical for most and that’s why you see them teamed up with amps from Classe and McIntosh, your warmer sounding amps. They were noted for their midrange drivers not their tweeters. |
"p0512971 posts B&W speakers are an ok speaker, not anywhere near the best, way overpriced for what you get. They have always been too analytical for most and that’s why you see them teamed up with amps from Classe and McIntosh, your warmer sounding amps. They were noted for their midrange drivers not their tweeters. " You obviously have not heard each incarnation at each relevant time period. They hit far above their price point and currently the d3s beat in my opinion £150k Wilsons which I heard in comparison. Also Classe and McIntosh are far too weak (not sure regarding your comment on warm sounding - certainly not up to scratch when I have demoed) - so I disagree pretty well all round with what you have written. I am listening next week to the new Avalon Pm2's. Should be interesting. |
Selling ultra hi-end speakers for north of $200,000/pair is a risky business. Based more on fashion than quality. Better business to capture the mid and upper mid levels. Volume speaks louder than pricing. I had 801s for 20 years. Can someone tell me if today's $30k B&Ws are better than $30k Wilsons? |
Hifi companies break down into two distinct groups - those who invest primarily in marketing like B&W and those who invest primarily in R&D like Wilson Audio. Wilson has sold far more speakers than all the others combined because they make superior products. In electronics, companies like Boulder and Spectral don’t need to make nice with journalists or seed forums like this one, whereas companies like Marantz and McIntosh are shells relying on reputations for products from long ago ( or never, in reality) and heavy marketing. If you ever heard properly set up Sabrinas, Sasha DAWs, Alexia 2s, XVXs, you wouldn’t wonder why B&W can’t compete. the Nautilus creator left B&W and his updated designs are available - Vivid speakers are stunning products on the Wilson level of magic. |
Price has never been an indicator of quality...there are some damn good speakers selling brand new for one thousand bucks and below....its in the design and the attention to detail. Some know what they are doing and some want you to believe they know what they are doing. They also know that there is a sucker that will pay ridiculous prices for something that may or may not be marginally better than a lower priced speaker. |
Remember these? https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usedprice.com%2FItemImages%2Fimg25538_real.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usedprice.com%2Fitems%2Faudio%2Fbowers-and-wilkins%2Fspeaker%2Femphasis-5801.html&tbnid=Q_VpQzfL5Vn5JM&vet=12ahUKEwins-mQ_8fqAhVHB1MKHeWoBQYQMygRegUIARCLAw..i&docid=_bZu61CbiU5LiM&w=200&h=150&q=emphasis%20speakers%20b%20w&ved=2ahUKEwins-mQ_8fqAhVHB1MKHeWoBQYQMygRegUIARCLAw (Damn, that's a lot of characters.....*L*) Exclusivity can be a siren song that's hard to ignore....and, at least to my eyes, the Emphasis is lovely. Whereas, the Nautilus? *Bleah* If you're going for 'sculpture', do it Well. The Naut has naught...imho... ...and it helps if you don't have to have to make a major investment in amps to drive a pair. Not everyone can fit a forklift into their homes...;) |
B&W is to speakers what Mercedes is to cars...unfailingly well engineered, respected by all the best people...a safe choice and pretty good performers to boot. The utterly pedestrian 600 series gets raves in the UK, the 700s are sold by specialists and Magnolia alike. The 800/802/803 are their prestige line, and to my ears do compete well for the price with many boutique brands, and their aesthetic design is exceptional. To whom is $30K a pair not “enough”? Not enough buyers for B&W to bother with must be their conclusion. |
@mtdining "
Hifi companies break down into two distinct groups - those who invest primarily in marketing like B&W and those who invest primarily in R&D like Wilson Audio. Wilson has sold far more speakers than all the others combined because they make superior products." This is one of the most false statements I have read in a long time. However, I'm open to being proven wrong so if you have credible data to support these claims please provide it. It is inconceivable that Wilson sells more speakers than B&W. I suppose it's possible that their gross sales are higher than B&W because their speakers are so expensive but I seriously doubt it. Again, please provide independent sales figures if you're going to make these claims. It's almost just as inconceivable that Wilson's R&D budget is larger than B&W's. B&W has a history of developing new technologies on a huge number of speaker models but again, if you can provide data to support your claim, please do so. Regarding the OP, my guess is that B&W has made a marketing decision to not compete in the megabuck speaker market. First and foremost they have to think about their dealers and whether or not a six figure product would fit in with their retail model. It's also an issue of branding. B&W has always stood for high performance/high value. Ultra high end gear requires a different level of customer and dealer service and companies like Wilson have set a very high standard. I've heard several of the top end B&W speakers and I've also heard 4 Wilson models, all of which cost multiples of the 800 D3. I don't happen to like the sound of the big Wilsons but the top B&W's would definitely be on my short list. It's a matter of taste. But both companies have been successful by optimizing their own business models and they both deserve credit. |
A while ago a serious survey was done by audiophile editors and other groups of audiophiles to find the 25 Best Expensive Audiophile Speakers of All Time irrespective of price! The 25 Ultimate Audiophile Speakers of All Time - survey is at: https://audiophilereview.com/audiophile/the-25-ultimate-audiophile-speakers-of-all-time.html (Click Small arrow next to the photo to scroll through the list.) They created five weighted categories to judge speakers including: - Performance 100 total points max - Longevity/Relevance 25 points max - Value 25 points max - Aesthetics 25 points max - Lust Factor 25 points max -----Total of 200 points maximum
The top 5 on the list came as follows: #1 Wilson Audio WATT Puppy Sasha W/P
($26,950/pair) #2 Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Diamond ($24,000/pair) #3 JM Labs - Focal Grand Utopia ($180,000/pair) #4 Wilson Audio Alexandria/Grand SLAMM ($158,000/pair) #5 Wilson Audio MAXX ($68,000/pair) B&W 800 Diamond model came 2nd and only a few points behind the 1st in the list. Interestingly B&W 800D2 was ahead of many other speakers several times its price. It is not surprising that B&W 800Diamond virtues are appreciated by many recording studios in the world. From B&W point of view, Where do you go if you are already producing one of the best speakers in the world!! Bowers and Wilkins Nautilus was also in the list at number 10! #10 - Bowers and Wilkins Nautilus - $60,000/pair |
Back when B&W was actually Bowers and Wilkins, it was a company to be taken seriously. The first decent speakers that I owned for a while were DM1800's. These days it's changed hands so many times and chased so many bandwagons, that it only remains relevant thanks to its iron grip on a huge distribution network. |