Checked out the Sonobond welder online. Reading a number of reviews, it appears their Ultrasonic welder is the best in the U.S.. The machine uses a patented cold weld technology. It wouldn't surprise me at all that MIT, Kimber and all the top high end cable companies are using the Sonobond Ultrasonic cold welder. There's a video on Youtube showing how the welder works.
Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?
I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.
Here is how I found out.
After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.
It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.
I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
Here is how I found out.
After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.
It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.
I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
1,019 responses Add your response
dill " Sadly this is what HI FI has devolved into over the past 40 years!"Measurementalists don't need to listen. Their faith in what they believe is science makes it usually unnecessary. When they do listen, they often genuinely hear no difference at all - very likely the result of the same "confirmation bias" they so quickly accuse others of suffering. |
| Post removed |
Some things are better than others, plain and simple. It gets down to degrees and how significant the difference really is. Most of us know a ’quality’ cable from junk, or a lamp cord. I don’t put a lamp cord in the junk category, because it works just fine and does not rely on mediocre workmanship along with cosmetics so it LOOKS like it should be better. It is an HONEST cable even if used for hifi. Some decades ago, there were a lot of junk cables, poor workmanship, etc. Monster was one of the early ones that actually proved a well made cable is better. That is long before they got too big for their britches, kept the same basic cables but found they could keep jacking up the price as long as they used gold plating and cool looking sheathing. Well, the formula worked for them, and still does to a smaller extent today. BJC cables meet my criteria of a cable that does not have to be better than this, and if it is, I sincerely doubt i will see or hear a difference. But that’s me. I’ve said before, when esoteric cable companies get a hold of well regarded artists, musicians, composers, recording engineers, etc. to promote their cable based on what the professionals claim to experience, I will start believing there is more to it than that. |
"
BJC cables meet my criteria of a cable that does not have to be better than this, and if it is, I sincerely doubt i will see or hear a difference." Now, don't try to experiment or anything, you already know the outcome. Bet if you substituted solid silver cables for your BJC, you would hear a difference. |
dalebeshansky-good point using well regarded artists in the entertainment industry. During the past 50+ years every major TV station, radio station and recording company in every major city have all purchased their speaker cables and interconnects from local broadcasting supply houses. Back in the early 60's when radio stations were recording and broadcasting at live events, they were using long runs of shielded speaker cables and interconnects. These type of cables were only used by the broadcasting industry at the time and were not used or available in the stereo retail stores since high end was still in its infancy. You could get cheap RCA interconnects at the time for your Fisher or Harman Kardon receiver. Bruce Brisson of MIT/Monster Cable was directly influenced by that industry which led him to start Monster Cable with his designs in 1981. Here in Seattle all the radio, TV stations and recording studios get their cable and wire from Radar electronics who have been around for 60+ years. These broadcasting supply houses in your home towns are great places to get high quality speaker and interconnect cable at any length you want and they have a wide variety of connector's and will terminate them for you. |
@cleeds The post in question was not subject matter for removal imho as it really nailed it without resorting to any personal level insults or attacks. However the way post removal works is not the best. If a post is reported by anybody it is subject to review by a mod. Unfortunately sometimes rather than actually read it and decide if it warrants removal they just remove as it is quicker and easier. After all the mod job is thankless and unpaid, been there and done that so I do know. |
uberwaltz The post in question was not subject matter for removal imho as it really nailed it without resorting to any personal level insults or attacksWe are OT, but clearly the moderators disagree with you. However the way post removal works is not the best. If a post is reported by anybody it is subject to review by a mod. Unfortunately sometimes rather than actually read it and decide if it warrants removal they just remove as it is quicker and easier. After all the mod job is thankless and unpaid, been there and done that so I do know.Sorry, but you're mistaken - Audiogon's moderators are paid professionals. I think they do an excellent job. |
Then these are the first mods on ANY forum I have ever been involved with that are actually paid! Good luck to them in that case, still a thankless task...lol. I do not believe my post stated anywhere that they do not do an excellent job......... And if they are truly paid then so they should tbh! However you cannot disagree that the removal of some posts does then make subsequent posts and even sometimes the whole thread a bit of a mess as new readers wonder what the heck a poster is talking about if they are referencing a post that has been removed. |
Moderators are clearly on the side of those who spend money on Audiogon...those who tout the amazing, almost magical, properties of the cables, trinkets, tweaks and overpriced equipment sold here. I’m routinely called a nay-sayer, bad penny, troll, stupid, idiotic and other names that are meant, in a sophomoric way, to be offensive. I never "report them" as leaving those posts on the record shows those members for what they are. |
@dynaquest4. Your post is interesting to me. Since you have no idea if your claim is true or false, as you have no proof, your comment is more a reflection of an intolerance towards views and experiences differing from your own. Goodness we are all so guilty of this today - myself included. I do wish we could all respect opposing views and experiences without distain, anger, and condeming judgement. Must we revile differing audio experiences and beliefs? If we continue to assume the worst in others, then we really leave no room for healthy discourse and learning. |
willemj The point is that those who are critical are indeed not infrequently abused by calling them trolls, nay sayers, pseudo scientists, jealous, deaf, or impoverished owners of inadequate gear. >>>>>Well, it’s not as if you are completely innocent. Shall I cut and paste some of your more colorful comments here? Besides, look on the bright side. I’ve never ever called anyone a bozo, an idiot or an __clown. |
Whether you have inexpensive cables and power cords or more expensive high end models you will undoubtedly benefit from carbon fiber sleeves on all cables and power cords. Available on eBay in various diameters and lengths, two to three day delivery. If you want one meter select x1 and if you want two meter length select x2 and so forth. See what all the fuss is about. |
To be more specific here’s the blurb from Elite Motoring, where I get my stuff. These sleeves look good! ”Carbon Fiber Fabric Sleeve 1.5"/38.10mm Diameter 3k Aerospace 8.3oz 281gsm. This Fabric is Aerospace Grade. This fabric is woven into a tube/sleeve so you can easily make straight or curved pipes with no seams. These sleeves will expand in diameter if the ends are pushed together and also will decrease in diameter if pulled from both ends. This 1.5"/38.1 mm Diameter sleeve will have estimated range of 0.6"-1.75"(15.24mm-44.45mm) Diameter. This sleeving has a tow size of 3k which will yield a lighter and easier to work with fabric. Thickness is 0.013"/0.33mm. These carbon sleeves have a 34Msi Modulus stiffness with a 640ksi Tensile strength. .022 lbs. per foot.” - your humble scribe |
dynaquest4"Well...you know when you pause a CD or up-cue the tonearm on a record and then turn the volume way up? That hiss and other interfering noise that you don't hear at all....it fixes that." This is an apparent effort at what the contributor presumably believes is a humorous post but all it really is in effect is another snide remark towards those who know more than him and even more importantly have actually conducted thorough, hand's on, scientific exploration into the very nature of carbon fiber including its properties and applications in Music Reproduction Systems. What this carefully conducted research reveals is just as expressly claimed here regarding its inherent abilities to reject substantial quantities of RFI and EMI which have been empirically shown to have a deleterious effect on Music Reproduction Systems. Those who postulate to the contrary from the comfort of their sofa should consider avoiding making their statements as though they are revelations of fact and instead endeavor to express their opinions while making clear they are only opinions and avoid the belittling of those who are embedded in research. |
Less talk the science a bit. If you are passing high current to your speakers you need the wire to have the capacity. This means lower gauge, braided. Yes if you try telephone wire, you will limit the current and is going to sound like crap, filtered. Current travels on the wire surface, that’s why you want to use branded, it has more surface area for the same gauge. Go with fatter wire ( lower gauge). I bought 10 awg braided copper speaker wire for $1/ foot at Lowe’s on a 100 foot spool. It will carry considerable more current than 14 gauge, thus less limiting than 14 gauge. I did try a comparison with borrowed high price specialty speaker cables and found no difference. You will find that the recording industry does not buy in to the boutique speaker cable fad. The limiting point on your cables will be the connects, so the argument to not use banana plugs is real, they offer very poor high current pass. Spade plugs are better, or copper wire through the binding posts, tight. |
dynaquest4"Clearthink: I think I am going to grab my folding currency holder, get in my personal motor transportation device and drive to my nearby retail sound and vision equipment dispensing outlet and see if they actually have something called a "music reproduction system." " I think you are mocking my language and if that makes you feel better it is fine with me English is not my first language or even my second I speak basically 7 languages they are all different and I don't pretend to be equally fluent in all of them. You are probably American and most of you just speak one language which is a substantial part of why you have a selfcentered view of culture and the world. |
