Oh, sure if you want to go back to the 1970s. Come on, guys. At least get some cables with arrows 🔚 on them for crying out loud.
|
Has there been a palace revolution? Have the inmates officially taken over the asylum? Today should be fun! I’m not saying for who.
|
"My +1 a few post above is unintelligeable ..." A slip of the tongue alert! |
Mods, how about doing us a favor and getting rid of this obnoxious troll and stalker. Once you let them get a foothold in your house it's very difficult to get rid of them. |
mapman
"Waste of money IMHO"
so sayeth the man who's got a lifetime subscription to The Audio Cheapskate. Of course I'm one to talk since I don't use cables or interconnects. Is that wrong?
|
Unreceivedogmeat, you won't last long here. You can't shut up.
have a nice day
|
Unreceivedodmeat
13 posts
01-08-2017 1:13pm
Geoffkait Your defensiveness is also up there with His TriumPhness. That’s rarified company.
Oh, I get it, now. You’re one of those sore losers. 😢
|
|
ieales
@geoffkait -
Since all wire is directional...
Directionality was also ignored... please point us to relevant tests or simulations or calculations showing deltas from reversing zip cord in the audio spectrum.
>>>>Find it yourself. Use the search engine. Let us know what you find out.
|
|
Will we ever hear the end of it? Probably not in our lifetime.
|
It seems to be getting harder and harder to distinguish the sarcastic posts from the sincere posts. Maybe if people put a smiley face or grimacing face after their posts we would be more able to tell the difference.
|
There seems to be a communications problem here. Maybe my iPad is giving up the ghost. 👻
|
Oh, no! Not more Roger Russell!? Here we go again! Besides I actually don’t think I was agreeing with you. 🤠 All us old dudes know we can’t hear. You don’t have to rub it in. |
I suspect any hi end or mid fi audio company that targets aging and increasing deaf audiophiles should probably go back and revise their business plan.
|
cd318
Difficult to argue with that logic. The one thing that’s certain is that some cables can make their dealers a lot more money. Seriously, if you believe the cable myths then you should also consider having your amp/ turntable/ CD player/ source rewired as well.
>>>>>>Now you’re getting warm. That’s the problem in a nutshell. All wiring should be controlled for directionality. All fuses, speaker cables, interconnects, power cords - everything! Just like Audioquest controls directionality for all speakers cables, interconnects, power cords and HDMI cables. I contend the entire industry is in denial or else is simply ignorant. Can I say that? 😬 Since all wire is directional, all internal wiring of electronics and speakers should be controlled for directionality. All transformers, all digital cables, HDMI cables. Speaker crossovers, wire in resistors and capacitors. All of it. It’s time for the ostriches to pull their heads up out of the sand.
|
I believe that’s called a drive-by shooting. Bang, bang! |
willemj
In fact, it is more than that: demand for them goes up, the higher the price, perhaps precisely because of the high price. They are what is called Veblen goods, with a positive price elasticity of demand.
>>>>Whoa! That’s funny! What came first, the chicken or the egg? 🐓 Of course the obvious problem with such a far-fetched conspiratorial theory of economics - that higher and higher prices increase demand further - is that very high priced cables actually do not (rpt not) sell that well compared to reasonably priced cables. Which makes sense given the percentage of extremely well-heeled audiophiles 👞 in the general population of audiophiles. It’s reasonably priced cables that sell the best - by far. Do the math.
Look, would you rather sell 10 cables at $5,000 a pair or 500 cables at only $500 a pair? Answer at 11. By the way, that same conspiratorial theory of economics that willemj supports is what forced so many high end companies to go out of business in the economic environment that we got after the system collapsed in 2008, produced by banks and a housing market in general that was convinced higher and higher prices meant economic success and security for everybody. Hel-loo!
Note to self: All this ruckus over high priced audiophile cables is starting to sound a lot like sour grapes. 🍇
|
Sorry, we’ve eliminated placebo effect through careful testing. Better luck next time. |
mitch2
Geoff, I did indeed try reversing a fuse and the most noticeable difference was the 15 minutes of my life I will never get back. I have now vowed to only try stupid audiophile parlor tricks at midnight during the fall switch from daylight savings to regular time, and to keep the time I spend on foolishness to less than one hour so I can pretend I didn’t waste my time.
>>>>I wouldn’t expect you to hear it, Sunshine. For any number of reasons, but most likely you just psyched yourself out. 😳 in any case, judging by other folks’ experiences yours is obviously an aberration and can be safely thrown out.
|
Only quote facts. If you don’t think R makes a difference, even a very small R, just try reversing the direction of a fuse sometime. Or even better, interconnects, of the unshielded variety.
|
Hey baby, you better come here quick. This old audio stuff is making me sick. Audio all around my brain. Tweaks are for horses and not for men. Doctor said it kill you, but he don’t say when.
|
Like they teach you in boot camp, when you negotiate the live fire course on your belly through the mud and barb wire with your rifle tucked in your arms remember to keep your butt down. Otherwise...you know 😩
|
I trust your hearing is better than your reading comprehension. 🤡
|
iaeles
“The best solution is to attend live, unamplified music and use similar recorded music to calibrate your system. Any system that can accurately replicate the dynamics and air of live music is going to breeze with compressed, over eq’d pop.”
>>>>>Sorry, that makes no sense. An excellent system ( wide frequency respone, high dynamic range) will still sound like dog doo 💩 with overly compressed music of any type. It will still be overly compressed dynamic range wise. You can’t be more dynamic than the source. Hel-loo! |
Uh, what would you like them to measure? In your heart of hearts.
|
Split camp on cables? I’m sure you must be mistaken, sir. Everyone has always agreed, ever since Polk and Fulton came out with those really cool cables, what was it, 40 years ago?
|
Have I got a flash for you, flashbazbo. High current is not (rpt not) going to the speakers. Problem solved. 🤠
|
Dude, you’re following the wrong, you know....
🐑
|
To be more specific here’s the blurb from Elite Motoring, where I get my stuff. These sleeves look good!
”Carbon Fiber Fabric Sleeve 1.5"/38.10mm Diameter 3k Aerospace 8.3oz 281gsm. This Fabric is Aerospace Grade. This fabric is woven into a tube/sleeve so you can easily make straight or curved pipes with no seams. These sleeves will expand in diameter if the ends are pushed together and also will decrease in diameter if pulled from both ends. This 1.5"/38.1 mm Diameter sleeve will have estimated range of 0.6"-1.75"(15.24mm-44.45mm) Diameter. This sleeving has a tow size of 3k which will yield a lighter and easier to work with fabric. Thickness is 0.013"/0.33mm. These carbon sleeves have a 34Msi Modulus stiffness with a 640ksi Tensile strength. .022 lbs. per foot.”
- your humble scribe
|
Carbon fiber is highly conductive thus acts as excellent RFI/EMI shield. Even if the cable is already shielded with copper. Carbon fiber cloth sheets can be draped over equipment for additional shielding. Ooo la la!
|
Whether you have inexpensive cables and power cords or more expensive high end models you will undoubtedly benefit from carbon fiber sleeves on all cables and power cords. Available on eBay in various diameters and lengths, two to three day delivery. If you want one meter select x1 and if you want two meter length select x2 and so forth. See what all the fuss is about.
|
willemj
The point is that those who are critical are indeed not infrequently abused by calling them trolls, nay sayers, pseudo scientists, jealous, deaf, or impoverished owners of inadequate gear.
>>>>>Well, it’s not as if you are completely innocent. Shall I cut and paste some of your more colorful comments here? Besides, look on the bright side. I’ve never ever called anyone a bozo, an idiot or an __clown.
|
Uh, so what’s your point? 🤡
|
I’ve been to the top of the mountain (not just Base Camp) and this is what I found out.
- A rich audiophile has about as much chance of getting into Audio Nirvana as a camel has of passing through the eye of a needle. 🐪
- Necessity is the mother of invention.
- An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. 😳
- Generally speaking, people would be much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little.
Joke: two guys were sitting next to each other in a commercial airliner. One guy looks out the window says to the other, gee, those people look just like ants. The other guy replies, they are ants, dummy. We haven’t taken off yet.
|
Geez, now you tell us! 756 posts later.
|
That’s right, shoot the messenger, not the message. Heaven forbid we could have a real debate on the topic. What we have here is failure to communicate and a bad sense huma to boot. 👢
|
cd318
How about a little bit of perspective?
If there is a difference it is minuscule in comparison with those found in loudspeakers, recordings, rooms etc.
>>>>Sorry, that’s an old wives tale. Oft used by newcomers and naysayers.
Some cables (high cost/ poor design) might alter the tonal balance.
>>>>>>Another old wives tale. A naysayer favorite.
Value for money diminishes rapidly as price goes up in audio. Ten times as fast for cables. At least.
>>>>>Guess what? Yup, another old wives tale.
Throwing away money in an effort to get better sound is a sign of desperation.
If we must delude ourselves, perhaps we can learn to enjoy our delusion by first laughing at ourselves.
>>>>>When people throw money away do they really actually throw it?
How's that for some perspective? 😀
|
You can only serve one Pokemon master.
|
Whoa! Hey, I'm just running it up the flagpole and seeing if anyone salutes it.
|
While we’re off the subject, when you play an LP, the Time Coordinates from when the recording was made - and that is preserved on the recording - interfere with the listener’s own "internal clock" (local time) and confuses his brain. The human brain relies on a single time source to be able to perceive sound correctly. The human brain is not pleisiochronous. It’s as if the two time coordinate sources produce jitter in the brain.
|
We had a guy in high school whose IQ couldn't be measured. It was over 200. He was able to memorize long lists of words even when the words were in a foreign language unfamiliar to him. No one ever heard from him again after we graduated. He just disappeared into the cosmos.
|
Whoa! Hey, look at it this way. It gives audiophiles something to talk about. These cable debates, discussions, arguments, whatever have been going on for what, 40 years, now? They're the meat and potatoes of audio forums. 🍔🍟 |
|
Huh? Why form an opinion until AFTER the 200 hour mark? |
I don't use cables or interconnects or power cords anymore so I guess I really can't comment.
|
Personally, I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions about any cables one hears at shows or dealers mainly because they are usually new and not broken in *at all* or perhaps overnight, if your lucky. That goes for cables, speakers and electronics - none of them are broken in at shows. The sound you described is that of many high end cables, speakers and electronics that have not been broken in. |
As the reviewer for Stereophile reported in his 1997 article regarding "the geek meet in the desert" - CES 97, to the uninitiated - "most of the exhibitors have not yet figured out how to get up out of the noise floor." Here we are twenty years later and you still don’t have to look very far to find some professionals somewhere who cannot hear the difference between amplifiers or systems that are still stuck in the noise floor.
|
So, are you saying nobody is right? That’s an interesting thought. You make it sound like a theological argument, that these points of view are nothing more than beliefs. I suspect most of the differences can be settled by experience. Maybe like an epiphany. 😀 |
"One key point that keeps hitting me squarely between the eyes about this thread though is that I see myriad references to real science, scientific method, etc...on this thread but when I read through everything carefully and objectively, I don’t see real science or scientific method being utilized. I see scientific jargon being utilized to justify a point of view but little if any real science or hard test results being presented regarding cables good or bad."
That’s what naysayers do. The way they’ve always done it, the way they'll always do it. You know what I’m taking about: Science cannot not allow it. You can’t disobey the laws of science. Anyone who knows science knows it. Anyone who ever took 12th grade science knows (blah blah blah). This is what naysayers have been saying for 40 years. Why on Earth would they stop now?
from Zen and the Art of Debunkery,
"Seeing with humility, curiosity and fresh eyes was once the main point of science. But today it is often a different story. As the scientific enterprise has been bent toward exploitation, institutionalization, hyperspecialization and new orthodoxy, it has increasingly preoccupied itself with disconnected facts in a psychological, social and ecological vacuum. So disconnected has official science become from the greater scheme of things, that it tends to deny or disregard entire domains of reality and to satisfy itself with reducing all of life and consciousness to a dead physics."
|
