I think most would agree that expectation bias works both ways.
Those who are determined that there is no difference between lamp cord and 5k cable simply will not hear any difference no matter their age.....
Although I generally find these naysayers are the last ones who would even try out a higher priced cable, not sure if it is because they are afraid they just might be proved wrong and suffer a catastrophic blow to the ego or their mindset just will not allow said trial to ever take place.
I was a disbeliever
I have seen the light......
Yes the same light that lamp cord should only ever be used for!
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Eh?
What?
Sorry I did not quite catch that.
Can you speak up a bit young man......
🙈🙉🙊
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@ghasleyÂ
I suspect your premise that trolls living in the basement may have some merit.
Might explain a lot.....
And yes that is tongue in cheek and to be taken in said manner...... |
@dynaquest.
That was a particularly condescending post even for you!
At 58 years young my hearing is more than good enough to tell differences that cabling and fuses can make.
Try it someday, you might like it...... |
The OP was neer seen again I believe.
Make of that what you will...... |
Nonoise.....see Als explanation which is about what I thought t bh.
But there definitely are some very thin skinned peeps about......
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I really could not tell major changes with speaker cable and interconnect while using "lofi" equipment.
Not until I got to "midfi" did I start to detect changes.
Now at "upper midfi" and a cable or interconnect change is readily noticeable.
Not always for the better but I can hear the difference with more resolving gear. |
Not sure why Geoff and Als last posts were removed unless they deleted them themselves.
Was illuminating..... |
How does one acquire all these friends with Nordost Valhalla cables lying around to just give away??
I would be lucky to get a piece of well used gum.....
😂😂
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There are far worse addictions in life........
I will take my audio upgraditis anyday |
Would "trolls" be counted as CBLF I wonder though........ |
@jollygreenaudiophile2
While you can conduct a scientific blind test with the same room, equipment, source material and listeners and just swap out cables that STILL is only going to give you an idea what differences there may be in THAT room with THOSE listeners with THAT equipment and THAT source material...that's it.
Yes it can help debunk snake oil but it is not going to tell you what they may act like in your situation. However if product xyz123 consistently appears to promote deeper bass then yes that is a result that you at least could expect in your system but again no guarantees.
I have just come to regard ALL cables as tone controls and some are more effective than others in my system.
I found all copper gave way too much bass bloom but in another system to another set of ears it may be the holy grail of cable.
it is a really difficult and thorny subject, always has been and always will be.
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So basically you are referring to carbon fiber cloth that has not been impregnated with resin yet so is still flexible and for a sleeve is in a woven form.
Interesting...... |
Why??
What is a cf sleeve supposed to do exactly?
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Methinks this has lost the plot somewhat.
Anybody have any comments relating to cable by any chance?
Thinking of upgrading my Nordost purple flare speaker cable to Nordost Heimdall.
Anybody have experience of those speaker cables? |
@grannyringÂ
Very well said indeed.
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I dont think anybody needs to get worked up and riled by a subject that at best is subjective to say the least. You could put ten people in the same room with the same equipment and music and get ten different opinions, we all hear differently from state of your hearing ,to your depth and spatial perception and ,of course even though it is denied by some, a form of expectation no matter what.
I used to be one of the largest sceptics on cabling there ever was but I realised it was mostly my lowfi equipment that was not resolving enough to hear any difference rather than a fault of the cabling itself.
Now as older age has allowed a little more "play money" i would say my level is now midfi and yes i can hear changes in cables for sure.
Not always better but just changes, some actually have been profoundly worse, as when I tried a set of Anticables solid copper core speaker cables, Lordy did that really mess up the bass big time, they lasted about a week before being returned and replaced with some VanDenHul cables.
Have I dipped into the market for 4 figure plus cables yet? No, will I, maybe, I am certainly not adverse to trying but you can bet it will be on a minimum 30 day return trial basis....just in case!
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@knownothingÂ
+2!!
One of best posts I have read so far and actually mirrors some of my thoughts and real world experiences with cable's.
Since moving up the food chain of equipment I have found I can definitely hear a diffence on a cable change. Not always "better", whatever your definition of better is, but definitely different.
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@zephyr24069Â
I guess I am still the skeptic you once were and tbh if I need to spend the equivalent of a small 3rd world countries national debt to hear that hard sought difference then I will surely remain a skeptic...lol.
Would you care to name the cables you allude to in your post at all?
I am not a skeptic by choice, just as of yet I have not been convinced on aural changes by ANY cable change I have ever made anywhere.
Whereas items like tubes, tube dampers etc I can honestly say that yes I did hear changes. |
I have no doubt that much more expensive cables with the correct much more expensive construction( silver etc) could actually represent an improvement in the right system to the right ears and would never knock ANYBODY for paying for them and being happy with the results.
I just know that my system is not ready yet for these very expensive cables, whether I can afford them or want to afford them is irrelevant right now.
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so i guess the Anticables ref 2 wire at 5ppm impurity must be bad stuff then.
Guess thats why its only $6 a foot
Oh and won more absolute sounds editors choice awards that I can count
And has a 30 day money back guarantee
My order is in........ |
Does it truly matter if it was a bogus original post?
There have been some interesting comments and points made all the same.
And of course you are going to get 50 different ways to paint black! No two peoples ears are the same and audio is a very perception based science, if you can use that word. No two people are ever going to hear the same thing and more than likely will each have their own viewpoint as to who is right, thats human nature. |
Some of this boils down to purely financial sensible choices.
NOBODY is going to spend 5k on speaker cables for 4k speakers....at least I hope not!
I feel the whole question can be a little irrelevant until you are at a mega bucks system level to start with.
I know I am never even going to contemplate spending close to or more on cables than components period!
So to even be in a situation to consider 5k cables I would probably need to have spent at least 30 to 40k on speakers....and I very much doubt that will happen in my lifetime.
Obviously not saying they  MIGHT not make a big difference, just that I fear I will never find out..... |
Glad you have been illuminated 2channel8 with a very good new best word.....lol.
Seriously though my cables probably total $500 for all speaker and interconnects against close to $20k equipment. Really find it hard to bring myself to spend more especially on something like power cords.....
But you never know.......
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These threads can be most entertaining for sure so at risk of upsetting EVERYBODY I am just going to throw this out there.
Surely there are only so many ways you can make a piece of cable whose sole purpose is to transmit signals from A to B?
Surely there is a point where no amount of money is going to improve this function to any measurable degree?
Do not get me wrong, I am not advocating we all hook up our speakers with bell wire but once up to a certain point of construction that is it?
Maybe I am a luddite but I did manage to change out the 30 year old QED 14g speaker wire about 2 years ago for some Canare quad core stuff. Did I hear a difference? Not really...lol. Maybe this old fart is just going deaf from working in heavy industrial plants too long.
And to the point of industrial cable, we have quite a number of wiring installs that carriy analog signals that ABSOLUTELY have to have no noise or hum or interference of any sorts and the spec is dictated by the manufacturer of the equipment. Now you can ignore this and go with cheaper stuff but do you know what the price difference is? It is roughly double for the high end stuff. Not 10 times, or 100 times or 1000 times.....
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Obviously the mods disagreed with me.... and several others and not the first time and surely will not be the last, that's just human nature.
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Then these are the first mods on ANY forum I have ever been involved with that are actually paid! Good luck to them in that case, still a thankless task...lol.
I do not believe my post stated anywhere that they do not do an excellent job.........
And if they are truly paid then so they should tbh!
However you cannot disagree that the removal of some posts does then make subsequent posts and even sometimes the whole thread a bit of a mess as new readers wonder what the heck a poster is talking about if they are referencing a post that has been removed. |
@cleeds
The post in question was not subject matter for removal imho as it really nailed it without resorting to any personal level insults or attacks.
However the way post removal works is not the best. If a post is reported by anybody it is subject to review by a mod. Unfortunately sometimes rather than actually read it and decide if it warrants removal they just remove as it is quicker and easier. After all the mod job is thankless and unpaid, been there and done that so I do know. |
@jperry
I can only agree, all my interconnect and speaker cables are various levels of Nordost which I have been upgrading through their line as I can afford to do so.
Each change has brought about a little more air and detail and controlled the bottom end further.
Zero fatigue.
When I am home I regularly listen 5 to 6 hours at a time.
But that’s my system in my room with my ears....ymmv
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Still amused immensely by this topic, here,s my 3 cents of old fart musings!
Hail from England originally and grew up as a cash strapped music afficondo making do on a shoe string budget to begin.
Back in the 70,s, affordable meant Jap amps and cassette decks, JVC, Trio, Akai, Aiwa etc, all made fair offerings for the price, hard to beat garrard turntable for the price and with a half decent cart sounded good enough. Speakers were ALWAYS English, Mission for the masses, Tannoy or Mordaunt Short for those with a bit more cash.
Anyways knew a lot of similar minded folk and we would trade gear, tell tall stories etc but not once EVER did anybody even think about cables of any sort!
You used what came with your gear, yes those throwaway rca cables, whatever power cord came with it and hopefully you could persuade the dealer to throw in some speaker cable if you bought a new pair, remember getting some QED 14g cable with some new Missions...which I still have...lol.
I think if anybody had suggested you go blow the price of your tape deck or amp on interconnects or power cord or fuse they would have been laughed out of the country!
Now maybe we were all ignorant or just did not know any better, who knows, all I know is I am still constantly amazed at the price of some cables and the people who buy them.
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mid fi?
high enders?
are we not all supposed to be in the same hobby for the love of the music?
such labels do not help matters any IMHO
Granted there will always be people who will argue black is white just for the sake of it and they exist in every walk of life and will never go away.
I love my music, I mostly love my equipment...lol
Is it mid fi?
Is it high end?
Is it somewhere inbetween?
Buggered if I know or even care tbh!
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