Since every recording has a different "sweet spot" you getting off your chair .
What makes a speaker sound great at low volume?
Most of the time I hear music at a low volume (wifey, apartment, ....).
I am looking to upgrade my current speakers, but in my market scanning I would like to understand, if there are certain “metrics” to look for, before I start going to stores for listening.
Any advice?
I am looking to upgrade my current speakers, but in my market scanning I would like to understand, if there are certain “metrics” to look for, before I start going to stores for listening.
Any advice?
66 responses Add your response
Its actually the ear’s that work less well at low volumes with extreme hi and low frequencies in particular. https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/ Tone and loudness controls used to be provided in a lot of gear to make the needed adjustment for low volume. Brighter speakers and/or speakers with tipped up bass inherently sound better at low volumes. Also speakers with adjustable powered subwoofers. |
I think good speakers sound equally well at all volumes. At least, this is what I observe with my Thiel CS6 and CS3.6 ones. I can hear the same deepness and resolution at a low volume as at a high volume (given that the recording quality is good) from any angle including from the back of the speakers. I would not believe that a speaker with other behavior reproduces naturally enough a good quality recording. Loudness, tone and other artificial tools I think are extreme and non-efficient. |
You may be barking up the wrong tree. HE speakers are specialized and have compromises that not everyone warms up to. All other speakers of normal to low efficiency will come alive at lower volume with proper amplification. Class D amplifiers tend to sound thin and weak at low volume levels. Higher powered Class AB amplifiers will do the job nicely. I used to run a 150 watt / channel NAD amplifier and I was simply amazed at how incredible the bass in a typical mid efficient tower speaker sounded at low volume. Get yourself an amplifier with some guts and you will be all set with the speakers you already have. |
Among many many parameters, I'd say the single most important one is the speaker itself. I own several, and I find that usually, bookshelves sound the best at low volumes. If your room is not that big, I would look that way. I have 99dB (Tannoy Westminster GR), 95dB (Tannoy GRF90 GR) and 89dB (XTZ Divine Alpha) speakers. All quite different types, and the Westminster clearly being the best speaker, but the XTZ Alpha sounds far better at lower volumes, and costs 5 times less. It also sounds very very good at high volumes actually, and in my view betters many 20k to 30k speakers out there... I highly recommend that speaker. It also has tuning possibilities to suit taste and/or room. |
Please..it's BASS, not base...unless we're talking about footers or stands or fans...BASS. Thank you. Also, looking for low tones in audio is called Bass Fishing...they have tournaments...here's a thing, my Schiit Freya has a clicking yet interesting "128-step relay attenuater" that purports to keep levels equal in each channel at any volume and it seems to work. And that Loki...can't say enough about how well it works, although maybe I just did. |
If you are going to listen at low volumes, you will require a quiet listening space. Plus, all the comments about Fletcher-Munson and loudness controls are correct. The ear is progressively less sensitive to certain frequencies as the volume is reduced. It's somewhat misleading when people say they hear more detail at low volume levels. They are actually hearing a very upper midrange dominated frequency response which they interpret as more detail. A well designed loudness control addresses this problem. |
I agree with what some others have said regarding the Quads and Maggies. My first love of speakers was my Quad ESL63s. Even at low volumes, they captured the width, depth and detail of a performance, without leaving your head numb. After many years of happy listening, I had to give them up when moving into a home with a somewhat smaller listening room. After moving back to a larger space, I considered getting another pair of Quads, but decided to give the Maggies a try. I’m now quite enjoying the little Maggie 1.7s. paired with my ADS sub. I listen mostly early mornings and late evenings at very moderate to low volumes and (like the Quads) the stage remains large and detailed, even at low volumes. Even though they’re not what you would call real efficient, they do very well, driven by my Rogue, Cronus II Mag - 100w per side, int. tube amp. If you have the space and the budget - definitely would fit the bill, especially if you listen to jazz, light pop, bluegrass or anything with real instruments and good vocals....Jim |
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I find Fletcher Munson is too base heavy for my ears. Perhaps the equal loudness contours solve that problem. Perhaps the 12 band jriver media center eq would be useful to tweek the contour settings for my specific sensitivities. Haven’t tried it yet. Not certain how well one would overlay the other. |
The Fletcher Munson curve is a reality that cannot be avoided, and although efficient speakers (especially horns) do "seem" to sound better at low volume (I use Klipsch Heresy IIIs at 99db efficiency with a 12 watt per side tube amp) they can’t run from old Fletchmun...if you can live with single ended ins and outs from your preamp to amp, get a Schiit Loki...an exceptionally low noise inexpensive 4 band EQ that seems made for this sort of thing...I don’t use mine that often, but since it doesn’t drag on the signal (utterly transparent when "out of the loop") it’s always there when needed, generally to add sparkle to dull sounding recordings or kick Fletcher Munson in the gonzagas. |
Its all about timing. At low sound levels the ambient room noise dominates and the electronics and speakers move off their ’sweet’ spot. But you can still sense the ’grip’ of the music and vocals if the transient timing is preserved. The three Casablanca audio clips in this paper are particularly enlightening: https://m.phys.org/news/2013-02-human-fourier-uncertainty-principle.html# So, i was able to supplement my system with a TakeT BatPro2 super tweeter (which is a just a phenomenally fast tweeter) which maintains the energy of the transients to make everything audible and makes low level listening very enjoyable. |
I auditioned speakers on modest dollar for just this issue, with my wife who has great ears but hates higher volumes. Mostly classical jazz and acoustic. Walked into shop expecting to buy the KEF's, came home with Rega RS3. Elegant sound. Adding an SVS sub eventually added the bass fine tuning at lower levels. And my modded Denon pre has great loudness control if needed. A friend's Vandersteen II's with great electronics sounds fine on lower volume acoustic stuff also. But as others said if I had money and space for them I would have Quads or Maggies. Maybe later. Agree that placement and listener position huge. Near field likely the way to go. |
From my understanding Frequency Response changes with Volume. This is why you see Loudness contour Switches. i remember Yamaha amps had adjustable Contour Control. I remember reading The Fletcher-Munson equal Loudness curves. https://www.teachmeaudio.com/recording/sound-reproduction/fletcher-munson-curves/ |
My experience shows me that good interconnects and especially an upgraded power cord (nothing crazy here. Say $50 for each set of phone plugs to get decent quality plugs and say $75 for the power cord. The Pangea cord from Audio Advisor is very good). People tend to go crazy here but there is a point of diminishing returns of dollar to sound quality. My point is being-to recover as much detail as possible which fleshes out the music at lower levels and does improve efficiency as well. Speaker placement through trial and error, assists greatly to produce a solid sound stage where getting the tweeters at ear level is important. Smaller speakers, say between Dynaudio to Def Tech 800s are great with a quality subwoofer. |
Many thanks for a lot of inspiring input. I have enjoyed reading the responses including the recommendations for other ways to improve SQ than replacing speakers. My selected take-away for now is - go for high sensitive speaker (above 92 DB) - eventually go for Horns - eventually go for studio monitors (or mid size speakers) - add EQ in some way, either via DAC, Pre-AMP or room correction - replace current AMP with a Tube-based AMP I will start with the speakers and move down the list - and replace my DAC at some point. Many thanks. Michael |
Interestingly, I noticed an unexpected improved low volume listening performance when I switched amp type from an Aragon class AB to a class D amp of about the same wattage. The improvement was significant even though I was using an older pair of Magnepan 2.7QR large panel spkrs that are fairly inefficient (87db @ 1 W). I'm familiar with 'loudness' controls and would equate the improvement to their affect; a perceived increase in the bass and treble to compensate for the proven reduction in perceived bass and treble when listening at low volumes. What I found especially noticeable and beneficial with the class D amp performance was that the proper bass and treble presence maintained its proportional accuracy at all volume levels, from soft to very loud as if there was a 'loudness control' continuously engaged. I cannot verify that all class D amps share this ability, however, I currently own 3 different brands of class D amps (ClassD Audio, Emerald Physics and D-Sonic) and they all share this ability or characteristic. I would also agree with the several other responses on this thread that stated moderately high efficiency speakers would be beneficial for improved low volume listening performance. Tim |
chayro: Love your first sentence ... OP: I don't know if you're considering vintage speakers as well, to solve your low-level, listening issue, but I have a pair of Kef R107's, and they produce a wonderful sound-stage no matter where you are in the room. They are supplied with a small EQ adjuster that is electronically, part of the crossover. At low volumes I just boost the Contour adjustment dial. (This is the only time I touch the contour dial). This seems to add what's required to cover all the necessary frequencies, and the music sounds great. Most people seem to like the 107s, but some just don't. They're a little different. Anyway, just my two cents ... |
I don't know if particular design attributes contribute to, or detract from, low level listening. But, as a general observation, the best sounding systems at low volume tend to be high efficiency designs, particularly horn-based systems. It may seem odd, but, those massive horn systems play better at low volume than at high volume (this might explain why so many Japanese audiophiles are attracted to horns even if they have neighbors that are very close by). In part, high efficiency allows for the use of low-powered amps. Low-powered amps, particularly tube amps, sound very lively when played at modest levels, while high-powered stuff tends to sound dead at low volume. |
My rec room speakers are a pair of vintage DCM TimeWindow 3's. I set the volume on my
McIntosh 31V A/V control center to an acceptable level and then use the 31V's EQ and McIntosh MC2600 power amp
gain controls to tweak the sound. This system is all analog. In my music room, I have a NAD M12 and NAD M22 v2 pushing a pair of Tannoy dc8ti speakers. This system is all digital, except for my Techniques SL 1600 MK II turntable. I use the M12's volume control, which works OK - but , the treble and bass controls are no match for a good EQ like the 31V |
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Lots of things. My speakers aren’t the most effecient and require a big amp. My system sounds very good at low volumes which is how I do most most of my listening. I’ve done some tweaking to lower the noise floor which is what I think has worked for me. Start with clean power, dedicated circuits, quality receptacles, quality cables, and cable placement. Nice rigid equipment stand, isolation devices between your components and shelves. I think it’s getting rid of the noise to start with. Speaker placement, your listening position and room treatment also play a big part. Guess I’m saying it’s not just looking at a pair of ultra efficient speakers because it can be done with not so effecient speakers as well. It takes time, experimenting and not being afraid of tweaks, such as fuses and etc. |
I’d combine chayro’s (first reply of the thread) and dweller’s posts. If you are really stuck with very low, middle of the night kind, volumes, "loudness" switch may surprise you. dweller says McIntosh and there are a few more, depending on your budget. Luxman, Accuphase (I am almost certain, but check it). Yamaha also has one although that one, in my experience, is not as good. It works in a different way. If you get intrigued about the "loudness" switch, there is a thread on Audiogon that has a few descriptions of it. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-loud-is-too-loud Now, you asked about speakers and a few of us are throwing amplifiers at you. Sorry. Good luck, listen low. |
There are many variables, starting with cables . since I upgraded to the Verastarr cable line I feel that using far less dielectric material ,as well as metal purity and Cryo treatment all add up to a cleaner presentation . that is just one example , the amplifier, preamplifier quality are seperate factors ,that being said yourcable s carry your signal. your sourse record, or digital is where the Whole ball game starts once that signal leaves it cannot bemadeupdown stream . sice by far your Loudspeaker gives the most distortions in a factor in % , 1-2-3 or more vs.001 for a amplifier on average a good one from 20hzto 20,000khz. Quality counts even more so And complexity of the Xover , speakers sensitivity , and the ability ofthe Amplifierto drive properly and have dynamic head room leftover for when you hit dynamic peaks they are not compressed on peaks demands can call on 10x thst then on a soft paggage allways buy bigger Quality power then you need to ensure ultimate fidelity. There are many other factors I didnot even get to such as keeping all connections ,including power cordsclean. the recordings the self will dictate what you hear.Room sound absorption,isolation underequipment ,including a qualitystand. The room can have a lot to do with what you hear. proper speaker setup. On the Cardas cable website they have a good setup guide line. Myself having owned a Audio store in Europe learned a lot about how to get many systems to sound far better then systems 3x the cost just by following all these guide lines.as thesaying goes ,yoursystem isonly as strong as its weakest link !! Enjoy Your music !! |
While some if not most of the above comments certainly have merit, I think one over looked crucial factor is the speaker placement itself. Many audiophiles change things before really getting the most out of what they have in the first place and speakers are certainly one of if not the most important piece of equipment. My speaker Dynaudio Special 25,s certainly aren't the most sensitive' I found that once I learned to REALLY set up speakers the low level listening details became more aparent with low level listening much more rewarding. Low level listening for me is early mornings when I'm preparing for class, but when I get home my listening volume goes up to high 70db,s to mid 80,s and the louder you play the more crucial speaker placement becomes. |
