My GE Triton Reference speakers are made in China and at $10,000.00 are a fantastic deal. There is a lot of technology packed into the speakers. If it was manufactured here, it would probably cost 15K or more.
Wharfedale Elysian 4 Incredible build quality and sound, but made in China.
When I walked into the shop my eyes were struck by these gorgeous looking beauties. Then I sat down and took a listen and said to myself they must cost $20000.-25000. When the dealer told me $10000. I was floored. What the hell, how can this be? Then he explained they’re made in China. I thought to myself, well if they’re who cares they look and sound fantastic.
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Why would you pay $5k more for the exact same quality speaker? Makes no sense. Why? Because Communist China is an enemy country. It’s time to divest in china and make more things here. I’d rather pay extra for a product made in the USA, including audio. Buy American, easier said than done, but the process needs to start. |
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Doubtful you would pay an extra 5K for the speaker to be made here. Talk is cheap and you are full of it. Golden Ear is an American company in case you forgot. I also own 2 Hyundai car and suv. You can now cry about that too. Don’t blame China, blame the American companies that got huge tax breaks and instead of hiring more workers or move manufacturing to the US, they bought back their own stock. Reagan’s trickle down effect didn’t work then and it still does not work now. If I were you, I wouldn’t buy anything made in China, including 90% of all medications. Do your homework before you thump your chest and cry for American made products made here. The only reason you are all against China is because a big fat blowhard cried about it on Twitter. Can you guess who? |
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stereo5, you are the only one here thumping your chest and crying. I
have zero interest in american politics. I value companies that
take pride in their rich history and heritage and am willing to pay a
premium for it. I stand by what I said, if a speaker was made in the USA, I would pay a significant premium for it. That is why I am
looking at upgrading to Wilson, or other made in USA speakers one day. It annoys me that my JBL were made in Mexico. And by the way I already bought my McIntosh gear like two weeks before I even made my comment at close to full retail price, a brand new MC462 power amp and matching C53 preamp. I spent over $20,000 Canadian dollars on the equipment. Your assumptions about me and calling me out on BS were and are unfounded. |
Entirely due to nothing intentional, and nothing against Chinese manufacturing particularly (all my clothes, phones, computers...you get it), my Klipsch Heresy speakers, Schiit items including my preamp, and Dennis Had hand made power amp...all USA made. Who knew? Note that some of my Neutrik items were made in Liechtenstein...do we have any issues with them? |
Most stuffs including speakers are made in China. I would say 90% of stuffs at Walmart probably made in China. Also it’s interesting OP thinks $10K speakers are a bargain :-) It’s a rather basic three way with two bass drivers, probably 4th order filter ... everything done basically by the book. I would say $10K is rather expensive for something rather conventional. More like $5K. You could get a set of Revel F206 for less than $5K. They are both 3way with 2 bass drivers, 4th order filter. https://www.crutchfield.com/S-ojnQLviKONt/p_265F206BK/Revel-Performa3-F206-Piano-Black.html |
My buddy has the ELysian 4 and absolutely loves them. He also has the $45K-50K AG Duo's so it says something to me that he keeps the "4" in rotation with those babies. Revel 206/208 (I had the 208) arent remotely close in sound quality OR appearance to the "4". Not in the same league at all. If your going to make a realistic comparison to Revel use the Studio 2 or Salon 2 please. |
Very few products are truly completely "Made in the U.S.A.". From procuring materials, sub - assemblies and final assemblies most things are partially made from all over the world. Even your made in the U.S.A. speakers, is the MDF from the USA? The crossover components? internal stuffing? Veneer? Drivers? Don't be fooled by the made in the USA BS, most things are not. Even your all - American F150 has parts procured and sub - assembled throughout Asia. |
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We may not be able to avoid all Chinese made components, but we can certainly TRY to buy products that say "Made in the USA," rather than those which proclaim blatantly that they're made in China. Disengagement from Beijing is necessary in all areas if we are to return to being self-sufficient and not subject to undue international pressure. |
China has essentially no protections for workers or the environment. The electronics manufacturers aren't so bad but speaker manufacturers are terrible. Workers spraying paints and lacquers with no respiratory protections, literally poisoning themselves. Then, at the end of the day after clean up, all the solvents are simply dumped on the ground, poisoning the water for entire communties. Meanwhile, domestic manufacturing is hollowed out and everybody has to work at Walmart or Amazon for poverty wages and crap benefits. But, hey, we saved $5000. Woohooo! |
Yes, but how do they sound? If this is Wharfedale's best loudspeaker, then shouldn't we be interested? Business ethics can only have very little to do with the way the modern world operates. Price and quality come first. Having said all that I would be most reluctant to ever buy another Apple product again. As long as there are alternatives. |
After looking at my audio system outside the Jena labs cables nothing I own is made in the USA,and it sounds killer to me...I could care less where it comes from..my amp is from New Zealand, my back up tube amp is from China,my failing cd player from Japan,my speakers are from Korea,my sub from great Britain. |
@arcticdeath, "apple the biggest,iphones, iPads, pods, etc etc. they have about 30$ worth of parts, and stuff, yet, they sell em for 1,000$ profit is the ultimate goal. Nothing else matters." Yes, but this is how they became the biggest company on the planet. And let’s not even talk about suicide nets outside windows for those poor workers nailed down into doing double shifts all year round. I’m not usually too bothered about where stuff is made providing it’s made well, and built to last, but I’m drawing the line at suicide nets. Especially when the company concerned seems totally unwilling to share even the tiniest tiniest portion of its incredibly vast profits with the people that provide the labour. I’d like to think that the IAG group who are also responsible for Quad, Audiolab, Mission, Luxman, Leak and Castle as well as Wharfedale don’t do business in such a way. https://www.wharfedalepro.com/about.php?id=76 |
good point! ac tually wharfedale quite good in middle high and high frequency but the bass not quite good ,,, it is your choice to add same bass panel or not ,,, good luck for your next move ,,,anyway who can help me about transiator ---> https://youtube.com/shorts/zRakw_KIfWI?feature=share thank you very much for everyone who help me lately! |
This topic is 100% political. But I cannot discuss the reasons here. I think you should vote with your wallets. There are plenty of smaller brands with high value which get low attention on social media or the press. It’s just weird to me how brands like B&W and Sonus Faber command a higher price, while manufacturing in China. That’s a failing of dealers to me. Dealers should guide you towards high quality, high value equipment. But it’s so much easier to move B&W, Focal and Sonus Faber product which get max coverage. The buyer is already convinced. |
The most expensive loudspeaker designed by Peter Comeau and we still have no idea how it sounds. These are several times more expensive than the highly regarded Lintons but are they worth that difference? I still remember his Heybrook HB1s from way back. I had the Mk2 version and they were excellent all rounders. The made in China thing doesn't bother me at all as long as the people doing the doing the manual work are treated well. The real question is how do they sound? Apart from the odd slightly vague review, there doesn't seem to be a lot of user experience being shared online. |
Economies of scale. If it was made in the UK or US. $25K
Modern day global business practices often make it a nonsense to judge products by price. This is all good news for the consumer and it's hardly surprising that many businesses have adopted this method of supply. This is bad news for startup companies because the competition is not on a level playing field.
But then again, wasn't it always like this? |
@cd318 , Some things can be judge by price, but for luxury goods like audio equipment. I think its highly overrated/marked up in price as these equipment just play music. How much better each amplifier, DAC, speaker, cables are? It will be up to the consumer shelling out the price to find out. US goods has stopped the made in USA concept years ago, many of the product were made in Taiwan, now China and etc... If any of the goods were made here, you know we are paying a fortune for it, and many consumers would cry about the cost being so high. One of the iconic and most recognizable brand is Harley Davidson. those bikes are now made in China too. Lets go figure Competition is competion, nothng is ever on an even playing field unless companies start from scratch with technolgy and were born at the same time.
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I boycotted all countries once my audio low cost system was assembled and optimized... My dap used as a fixed battery dac and files bank is made in china though.. My headphone come from Germany and my amplifier from Japan... Now high qualities speakers cost high money, way too much for me and anyway i know now the difference between a living room and a dedicated acoustic room... But i cannot afford one in my new smaller house... Going back to headphone seems catastrophic for me at first, but some TOP headphone optimized beat most speakers in living room or rival them in her own way, especially the K340 ... Now i boycott every country, china included... i buy NOTHING... I am free 😊
«When my wife is shopping alone , i boycott Germany, you know she is German»--Groucho Marx 🤓 |
One of the iconic and most recognizable brand is Harley Davidson. those bikes are now made in China too. And no one will care if the quality is the same (or even better). Collectors/ investors/nostalgia buffs are a different breed, but they are not necessarily buying to use and enjoy. For most of us, quality is king and the price is queen. Or something like that. |
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@cd318 I apologize I deleted my post @webking185 was misstating the HD China business. HD is only making small displacement motorcycles in China for the Asian market, though they may be coming to the US. |
It shouldn’t matter where it’s produced as long as proper/adequate quality control is managed during the manufacturing process. China has significantly cheaper labor and the technical expertise that makes manufacturing there attractive to cut costs to stay competitive. Buying domestically only to support local businesses seems like a good idea, but we now live in a global economy. Parts are sourced from many non-domestic sources. Generally, it makes no business sense to pay more for a part than us necessary. Businesses are for profit so cutting costs directly helps. However, there are exceptions- some businesses may want the tighter control of manufacturing locally, and they can afford to do so because the market will pay the increased costs. And realistically, I doubt buying domestic only will have a much of a financial impact since the majority doesn’t follow this thinking. |
@kennyc Your point of view is so problematic at a micro-economic level. You may as well make everyone in the West disappear from existence because there’s cheaper labor somewhere else. This extreme cost cutting mentality needs to stop. The end result is de-industrialization, loss of skilled labor, dependence on other countries for essential products, loss of negotiation power, increasing inequality, lower living standards, lower state tax income (public services/utilities getting worse) etc… Just take up the challenge of producing locally with long term wealth goals. Focus on quality over quantity and price. The High End Munich show proves that this is possible with the countless European manufacturers. Furthermore, these products don’t have to be priced out of reach for regular customers. There are many great offerings under $2k which outperform the KEF LS50 with local manufacturing.
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Your point of view is so problematic at a micro-economic level. Do you really think that multinational globalist companies care about any of that?
You may as well make everyone in the West disappear from existence because there’s cheaper labor somewhere else. Now, now, don’t give them any more ideas.
The end result is de-industrialization, loss of skilled labor, dependence on other countries for essential products, loss of negotiation power, increasing inequality, lower living standards, lower state tax income (public services/utilities getting worse) etc… Yes, we know. We’ve seen this happening for decades. The UK once had a thriving motorcycle industry which disappeared almost overnight. Hardly anyone misses it now.
Besides it’s still possible for small home-grown companies to succeed if they are innovative enough. Rega are an obvious example of a consistently innovative company that has managed to succeed globally and yet also keep it’s production based in the UK. On that score it’s a model example to everyone else. We should also remember that after market back up and care matter too. Especially when you're buying products that might cost half of your annual salary. I remember when I bought my Rega 3 it came with a lifetime guarantee, but I didn’t realise this also applies to every Rega product! -------- "So confident are we in our ability, Rega offers a lifetime warranty against manufacture defects on every single product we make."
https://www.rega.co.uk/about/history
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@cd318 . I buy what ever the wallet fits and agree with you. The world is globally sourced with so many MFG. Consumers are well educated today and know a good buy when they see one along with using the judgement of diminishing returns. |
Well, you almost said it. Outsourcing hurts innovation. Why bother researching and innovating when you can dropship? Just phone a wholesaler. Hey, REGA is good example of UK innovation. There are many similar examples in Europe like Atoll, Exposure, Focal etc... So you’re not a marginal for buying locally manufactured goods. "Do you really think that multinational globalist companies care about any of that?" That’s precisely the problem. It’s extremely political. Nations should keep globalist companies in check. But it’s the other around: globalist companies are suing countries for natural resources and to freeze the minimum wage etc... Ultimately, I believe that it’s really easy to buy high quality UK produced gear on the used market. This is especially true in France since the local population doesn’t seem to care about UK brands such as Arcam, Rega, Creek or Castle. I scored a Creek 4240 for 130€ recently and the owner told me he was trying to sell that thing for over 1 year. So I feel obliged to buy British. A comparable Atoll IN30 would sell for 400€ used. The average buyer isn't as informed as you might think. Let's just say that a dozen brands like Polk, Wharfedale, Focal, Klipsch, B&W, KEF, Wilson Audio etc... get all of the coverage. You can't really circumvent that problem, there are too many brands. But it's silly to me that people are paying full retail for a pair of KEF LS50 when there are better options on the used market for way less $ or just a few hundred more on the new market. |
Unfortunately, China is the 800 pound gorilla on this planet. I refuse to subsidize that kind of behavior. There are plenty of great American, Canadian, Australian and European speakers available. GE needs to move it's plant to the West and not wait until it is too late. Where did patting Germany on the head in the 1930's get us? Before WW 2 we were shipping arms to England and putting sanctions on Japan. Sound familiar? |
Yes, the internet age has forever changed consumer behaviour. Before it, we audiophiles were practically living in the dark ages. Where once even a little bit of specialised knowledge was scarce, limited to books and journals, now we are practically drowning in it. We consumers are certainly far better educated today and reading reviews is almost an art form in itself.
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