I hate when I click on a thread about a product, seeking information, and have to suffer thru all this political, philosophical bullshit.
Wharfedale Elysian 4 Incredible build quality and sound, but made in China.
When I walked into the shop my eyes were struck by these gorgeous looking beauties. Then I sat down and took a listen and said to myself they must cost $20000.-25000. When the dealer told me $10000. I was floored. What the hell, how can this be? Then he explained they’re made in China. I thought to myself, well if they’re who cares they look and sound fantastic.
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@cd318 I am currently residing in France and we can officially say that democracy died (It was dead decades ago, but now it's crystal clear) since the President overran the assembly and the will of the people in order to set back the retirement age at 64. To be clear, this retirement setback will only save approxiamtely 10 billion euros. There are 100 more effective ways to save 10 billion euros. But I am going off tangent here... Anyways, I have a hard time seeing conservative and right-wing politics favoring regular workers and unions... It's very much the opposite: salary freeze and high worker flexibility (a.k.a. worse working conditions). I have a very French perspective. You have to fight for your rights and go strike. Because the political class is not on your side.
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You dont apologize to cd318 for accusing him to be a liar ? Instead two lines to say i am wrong... You loose your toungue when you are put against a wall ? Why trail you me back here when i spoke with a friend then ? I did not trail you here myself... I let you ALONE... By the way your two line DEFLECTIVE post cannot make us forgot that you call cd318 a liar? TWO times...
Remember ?
And you confuse my post to be an argument : your accusation against cd318 are fact...Fact are not arguments.. did you undertand the difference ? I described your behaviour HERE SPEAKING OF CD 318 AND CALLING HIM A LIAR remember ? You owe apology to cd318... No one here accuse other people to be liar because speaking their mind... Your behaviour is the same as 10 months ago... BUT ME I LET YOU ALONE since my coming back.... Did you catch the DIFFERENCE between you and me ?
LET ME ALONE and keep your idiotic stalking sarcastic videos FAR FROM my post ... Go in your hole... I dont want to argue with you AGAIN...i dont like hating obsess people... I like to discuss rationally... And let cd318 alone especially when we talk together...Especially if we talk geo politic... You are not the arbiter or judge of any thread here...
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Said Nonoise when two friends after a long 10 months of absence where talking together about geopolitics, few posts above...Because he did not like it... He is the political brain of audiogon it seems, judge and party...Instead of politely giving his idea, he put an ACCUSATION`"there goes this thread" Only him can talk geopolitic nobody else...
This person now stir the thread toward the worst, accusing cd318 of "liying" because he express his opinion... ... Cd318 expressed his opinion...He did not lie...Even if you consider his opinion false, it is an opinion not a lie because he express his feeling and opinion ...You are so narrow mind that if someone see and perceive things from his perspective it must be a lie for you ... No it is his opinion thats all... Only hating mind will use the word "lie"... "Lying" is what you just do and do again in this thread : accusing someone else of what you just did FIRST stirring it toward hate with your first words to welcome me...with your insinuation... You are so hateful toward people thinking differently that your your sarcasm is often toxic... Thanks to you then, your own word are now prophetic : " Here goes this thread"... These was your INSINUATION as a welcome to me discussing with my friend, your are TOXIC... I stayed far from your posts since my coming back... Why you did not do the same ? Why ?
M.C. is no more here , i replaced him in your deranged political hating narrow mind... You are so narrow, you even think seriously that it is impossible to think about politic without taking side...Astonishing ...That say a lot about hateful fanatical mind...
Sorry but i like trying to understand the two sides at war or the two sides in the political arena...For example : for sure even if we understand why the second war comes after the first and the impossible imposed huge war debts on Germany by the unjust or discutable Versailles treaty thats opinion of mine and of many people, does not implicate that i consider Hitler to be right in his vengeful direction ... Did you catch ? For sure you will accuse me of lying... Because you had already forgot your hateful one sideness... And you will call liar someone debating your points.. I remember your M.C. attacks ... We owe M.C. apology now guess why ?
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Now, that is an outright lie. That it comes from you makes sense.
Again, lies (except for you recognizing your limits). Many are the times when politics has been brought up without taking sides and those with grudges literally pounce on the posts and have them removed. Happens all the time. I always found it strange and sad that those who state such things as fact actually think everyone else sees it their way as well. It comes from living in an information bubble, an alternative universe.
That's been the fallback position of every, single negative post on Chinese made audio goods, used as an excuse to knock China's policies and not how good some of them can be, benefiting audio enthusiasts. All the best, |
Yes, he did. However unlike other Robinson reviews he didn't really give much by way of direct head to head comparisons of the Elysian 4 and its rivals the way he usually does. Perhaps, at this level of performance, there's really not much in it?
Anyway, HiFifreaks have actually conducted a couple of interviews with Peter Comeau directly that shed some light on his philosophy and the peculiarities of the AMT tweeter that's used on the Elysian range. But still, it would be nice to hear from someone who's got some first hand experience of living with these not inexpensive loudspeakers. Apart from actually hearing for yourself, there's little to match first hand real world shared experience.
Yes, a lot of suffering and perseverance went into the acquisition of some of the basic working rights that we can now enjoy in the West. However I certainly wouldn't call those strike efforts communist. The emergence of the left in the UK during the late 19th and early 20th century never actually went that far. British people tend to be fairly conservative by nature unlike our French neighbours who have physically let their ruling elites know their feelings on more than one occasion. Quite a few people here raised an eyebrow at the recent riots in France when their government suggested that their retirement age be raised to 64 from 62. Ours is currently 66 or higher depending upon when you were born! Of course we'd like our retirement age lowered but it would seem that there are some in power that would like us to continue working until we die.
You can be quite sure that if your presence here, and not your words, offends someone, then they are not worth responding to. The rest of us might enjoy the sharing of a little information and experience without having a bout of apoplexy upon encountering a few words that trouble our mental equilibrium. Politics can be discussed without drawing party lines, and taking sides, and I find that you are far better at this than I am. Besides, as you implied, how exactly do you talk about Chinese manufactured loudspeakers without also talking about economics and politics? |
@kennyc The reverse is true for capitalism in the US. Think about the people who have to stretch their insuline and die because a dose is $800 Vs $11 in other countries. Think about the crumbling infrastructure, the police brutality, the monopolies, the housing market, homelessness, gun violence and the Education system. The USA is shaped by lobbies and the American people are suffering immensely because of it. I swear that Europeans are paying premium insurance when the visit the USA because they’re scared about the hospital bills if something goes awry. I am not saying that China is better. I have never been there. But wouldn’t it just be more rational to travel around the world to change your perspective on things? Furthermore, American politics were way more diverse in the early 20th century. There was a Socialist party and a Communist party. It’s very common to see Communist parties in Europe, but they hardly seem to make a dent because they don’t serve the interests of the landlords, financial institutions and corporate overlords. However, these Communist and Socialist parties have an impact in a parliamentary context where elected officials vote on laws. And you bet that the Communist parties will side with the laborers and regular working people (not just landlords, moguls and bankers). Basically, you can thank the communists for 8h shifts, paid leaves, holidays etc… They went on strike for that. |
I assumed that the "made in china" was a quality and/or a reliability issue (which fits high-end audio interests) vs a "political" one. I too greatly dislike communism for the misery it brings. I do understand that for some countries it may have been better than before. One thing I do not do is to dislike the people who have to live under a communist rule like they all are communisticly patriotic - most are simply trying to make a living the best they can just like everybody else. |
I am polite and factual in general yes ...
Are you saying me that you never expressed your political view in any post since 10 month and never being sarcastic against those who do not think as you think?😊 And of all the posts i exhanged here since 10 days, i only spoke politic in a thread DEDICATED about the political and ethical meaning of buying or not the chinese product and i spoke my mind with a FRIEND ... is it you who decide if i can or not ? Ok i catch , i am for you like M. C. a toxic product we must throw out of audiogon... is it the case ? Sorry i will stay except if too much people think the opposite.. Good night... If you dont like politic about chinese product change and go in another thread...
By the way i never adressed you FIRST since i am here and i would have never adress you again if you had not throw your sarcasm at us cd318 and me ...The "old baggage" is your own hate and incapacity to speak rationally with me...I NEVER ANSwERED YOUR POST HERE SINCE I AM HERE .. YOU DID... You are a specialist of reversing the accusation ... Let me alone or suffer my answers... I dont stay silent when criticized.. I answer...
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As your usual want, you single me out for your long standing animus against me and ignore the other insults directed at you earlier for your long winded posts. You were so polite in answering them. How gentlemanly. My post was much less offensive and directed at both you and CD318 for treading on topics that all of us have been trying to avoid for the longest time now. It's been a breath of fresh air and now the air is getting stale. The way you frame your accusations, based on falsehoods that anyone can quickly look for in this thread, boggles the mind. Where did I express my ideology or political leanings in this conversation with you? You've just brought some old baggage with you on your return here, ready to bore us to tears and use it as justification to pick up and continue where you left off. All the best,
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First it is you who did not change a bit with your "sour" welcome...I spoke about your "attitude" toward me...not about political ideas.. It is you who for a welcome throw a sarcasm...And your UNJUSTIFIED sarcasm ( directed toward me and my friend ) was written in a thread about chineese product and the ethical reason to buy one or not... I spoke my mind to a friend... I am used to talk amically with cd318 for a long time now... You could not resist to throw a sarcasm for welcoming me ...I answered... But our exhange him and me never need your ideological approval or censorship ...And DID NOT CONCERN YOU if in place of a rational argument you had only a mere sarcasm.. I dont bear grudge with people and i salute anybody here...I did not bothered you since my arrival more than a week ago, did i ? But i dont accept your sarcasm PASSIVELY sorry , and i am free here to speak my mind with any friend ... It is astonishing that you do the same as me giving your opinions with political narrow views and you dont accept if someone else speak his mind especially when larger views are expressed ... You post childlike sarcasm everywhere and everytime and me i dont have the right to discuss with a friend ? Where is the post i throw at your head or my sarcasm about any of your political allusion since my first day here ? The last one of your post i had seen was erased by the moderators, did i throw sarcasm at you because i am not on the same wavelenght ? No , because i know that being in dissent you dont WANT to discuss rationally.. Then i dont answer your posts if not INVITED... I never adressed you... You did... Do the same... You are an hypocrit, you accuse me to do exactly the same thing as you do every time you can, saying your political opinion... I have mine too a bit larger than your own... But me i dont wait hidden till the occasion is there to throw accusation against you... Did i ? As you said rightfully ...
But it was up to you to discuss with us in a friendly manner about your view .. Why not ? Simple, you hate me... It was the same in the past with other character... Me i like to discuss but i hate nobody...
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Allow me to defend myself. I am not a liberal but am realistic. I avoid bitching about stuff I have no control over - it does not do any good but make myself miserable, nor to I advocate forming bitching parties where more people waste their time. Sure things can be improved, but this takes "action". Pining away on wishful thinking about how things "ought to be" of in your case "be as moral as I am" is a waste of time unless it leads to constructive "action".
Now this just seems like a childish rant. Capitalism does have it's problems, but it's much better than the alternatives. |
You haven't changed one bit. Before your comeback, people were praising your evenhanded, grown up and thoughtful commentary and almost elevated you to the level of a saint. Some of us countered saying you were no better informed, polite or non-political than any of us and they took exception to it. I watched this thread to see when they'd chime in to say to you and CD318 to knock it off with the political commentary, the one sided, ill informed commentary, and maybe say something contrary myself, but that would have gotten your cheer leading squad all up in arms (since they are as one sided as you). No, I just posted "there goes the thread", a meaning everyone here understands, and your comeback is where you left off when you stopped posting here a while back. Same old, same old. By all means, go ahead and use my words anytime you wish. All the best, |
You are right... I forgot that you are the only ideological self appointed expert here... I will copy your sentence and i will use it when you will rant against Trump or any political delirium in any thread.... M.C. is no more here, it seems i replace him in your heart...
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The communist party is an abomination but they succeeded in giving bread to all China and way more.. And anyway they are till in command because corporate narcissists, de-industrializing our countries, used them to buy cheap workers for all the goods they sell us...Then reinforced their power because they needed them.. They then succeed helping the communist party to keep power... Anyway with one billion peoples thirty years ago you need a miraculous boom to give bread to all.. They did it with corporate occidental investment... Those who appeal to boycott of China are short sighted exactly as the boycott of Russia is uselees and worst counter -productive for us.... Anyway , because of the general propaganda so successful here as in China i will stop writing this post... For now i care only about the psychpath idiot in my country...Not about chinese phone labour or cost... China is more advanced country in Shangai than in quebec and most city of America... Medecine and engineering with 10 times more engineers or doctors grow... Here in my country we destruct family and education and health, and Trudeau borrowed Chinese control method... I must close my mouth here... The life span of people here regress , In US and Canada in the opposite he increase in other nations.., Guess why with the most adanced medecine based drug system in the world ? i spoke too much... 😁
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Then i dont know about you but i dont see anything well before the demise of these egoistics monsters...
I agree. Unfortunately the history of our world is full of such people. I have no problem with Chinese produced goods. All that I can hope for is that they treat workers with the decency they deserve. We all know that many many people all over the whole world still work under the most difficult and inhuman conditions imaginable. I'd like to think that this does not apply to those who work towards producing loudspeakers of the calibre of the Elysians. It's already a daunting thought that I don't know the exact conditions under which this phone I'm typing on was created. Should I even care?
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Yes i am a romantic but not without mathematical clarity ...I like so much Goethe because he was a romantic silent and musical heart with a speaking brain and a geometrical gaze... i am revolted by the absence of criticism in all official medias about the fact that health policy on earth is in the hand of an oligarch non elected who know nothing about health... Then i dont know about you but i dont see anything well before the demise of these egoistics monsters... And if i spoke more i will be banned from here... Truth does not exist in north america save in the usual convenient way ....
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Absolutely I do. It was one the worst decisions I ever made. I took it to one of one of those cash exchange stores and got back a pittance (£20 I think). Stupid, stupid, stupid. It wasn't taking up too much space and owning 2 amps is not particularly excessive.
Eliminate first corporate psychopaths and big monopoly on food energy and pharmas and heaven will come on earth... Not before...
For all of your great insight and knowledge you are still a romantic at heart. Alas, the history of this world clearly suggests something different. It's true that nothing was ever given without a fight first. However to paraphrase General Georg S Patton, we sometimes fought the wrong fight against the wrong enemy. |
@cd318 Did you regret selling the NAD 3020? It's a very celebrated amp. I wish I could find one in my area. But I got to stop collecting vintage Hi-fi amps... It's cool that if you own a NAD 3020, its value will only increase over time. |
I dont complain about the choices, but beware that the Hyperinflation created by the Hubris of some destroyed our choices , and the incoming created war because of total lack of conciousness can kill consumers choices too... I am not a luddite about the computer or A. I. but we must be blind and deaf to not became conscious of the cost we will pay in freedom and in our soul life... Why the choices of the american consumers are more costly and not so well accessible right now , we eat too, and i dont speak about amplifiers here, and why there is a decline of the life span in north america with the more costly health system and the more advanced in the world ? Saying as some that all is perfect for the time being is stay blind.. I am optimist for the next 50 years... Not for now...
Myself being interested only in books and music i never was so happy in all my life...The internet save me... But it does not means that all internet effect and consequences and incoming A. I. will be good... Eliminate first corporate psychopaths and big monopoly on food energy and pharmas and heaven will come on earth... Not before... And those who think that there is positive in these entities forget that the devil deal is plenty of positive gifts, but you pay it with your blood and soul you are put UNDER control ... And i dont say it as bible zealot say it for those who think i am a luddite bible reader...I am not...
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That’s an economics, history and politics lecture I never got at university. Quite right, despite appearances it’s not a question of us and them. It’s no longer even the UK v the US, or the US v China, or even Pepsi v Coke, McDonalds v KFC etc. It’s more of a question of some very big fish swallowing the smaller fish. International borders have little to do with it, and neither do monopoly regulations any more.
Nevertheless, today’s consumer is not compelled to buy cheaper or to pay more and buy local, but if it makes them feel better, more patriotic then they can do so. When I bought my first amplifier, the NAD 3020, I didn’t really have that much choice. It was the only one that I could afford back then. Everything else seemed to cost quite a bit more. It’s quite remarkable that I could today buy amplifier with all the trimmings, Bluetooth 5, remote control etc for LESS money than I paid for that NAD. And that’s without adjusting for inflation!
So it’s actually gratifying that the consumer has never had as much choice as today. Okay, it’s mainly all online nowadays...but we can no more uninvent the internet now than we can uninvent the the silicone chip or the transitor or the valve or digital audio etc. And no amount of nostalgia or living in the past can help either. In today’s world most of us are small fish desperately trying to swim with the irresistible tide. |
You are very on the point.... Alas! it is impossible to live without making transactions in a way or in another with big corporations... Black rock _Vanguard and the like own everything... Big corporations are not ROOTED in any country, nor america neither in E.U. They are psychopathic players which only want total controls and accept politicians only if they are puppets listening to their lobbying... It is so true that traditional politic disctinctions are tag in a game without content anymore...Democracy is impossible without journalism and truthful news everybody know that... And there is none let to be which are true journalism in official medias ... Transhumanism and corporate scientism is the plot behind the boat racings toward absolute control of humanity by them... It is not a hidden plot it is written as CLEAR road map.... Buying a low cost amplifier in China or in America to be a patriot will not change these facts...But i can understand why someone will do it for principle ... Anyway the communist party directed China till this day ONLY because corporations and behind them Blacrock-Vanguard etc all the rich and powerful people together knowing their own interests had decided that dictatorial communism even if it is a "problem" matter less than making money by delocalization of industries all around the world and they will then benefit with this already well planned better countrol of countries by destroying their economic freedom in the name of commercial global freedom ... Forgetting that a freedom which is not rooted somewhere, in each countries, is only a name or a tag or a watchword in a plot to overcome a meaningful too much free nationalism too strong to be put on chain ... It is already there in the British empire in 1833 when the title and traditional appellation of "natural philosopher" will be labelled for the future "scientist" then no more a general free thinker, but a payed specialized scientist who can be liable and submissive for some larger design by corporations ... All that had been submitted and accepted in an official reunion of the Society for the asdvancement of science, by among others, geologist William Wewhell and the founder of A. I. itself Charles Babbage, for the benefit of the British Empire corporate powers BEHIND the crown .... All that against of the wishes of Goethe who see it happen and who predicted it two years before this reunion in London , in 1831 in his Faust , describing EXACTLY the hubris behind those corruptible and no more free liable "scientists" under the spell of money and power and instructed by Mephisto himself ... The natural philosopher became the "sorcerer apprentice"... Faust from a philosopher of nature became the rich payed adviser of the king and even designed the idea behind paper money backed by debt ( the second part of Faust play ) All that is history not delirium...And now the uncontrolled race toward A.I. at all cost for the benefit of the corporate masters drive us into incoming collective madness ... This is exactly qwhy the chief scientist of google in A. I. Geoffrey Hinton himself, the father of the neural networks maths technology , not a secondary player, recovered his freedom and quit the "scientist slave work" for Google to speak FREELY as a phiosopher of nature and society for the "common good" about the dangers of A. I. ...
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@kennyc Your point of view is extremely « laissez faire » liberal. Let corporations rule. Monopoly is the goal. Corporations are here to plunder all ressources and exploit people for shareholders. This is the law. it doesn’t have to be that way in a proper democracy. You could impose company size maximums, wealth caps, progressive taxation etc… Prioritize public companies over private companies. Especially when it comes to Education, Utilities, Housing and Healthcare. I am of the opinion that large private companies suck. |
Yes, the internet age has forever changed consumer behaviour. Before it, we audiophiles were practically living in the dark ages. Where once even a little bit of specialised knowledge was scarce, limited to books and journals, now we are practically drowning in it. We consumers are certainly far better educated today and reading reviews is almost an art form in itself.
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Unfortunately, China is the 800 pound gorilla on this planet. I refuse to subsidize that kind of behavior. There are plenty of great American, Canadian, Australian and European speakers available. GE needs to move it's plant to the West and not wait until it is too late. Where did patting Germany on the head in the 1930's get us? Before WW 2 we were shipping arms to England and putting sanctions on Japan. Sound familiar? |
Well, you almost said it. Outsourcing hurts innovation. Why bother researching and innovating when you can dropship? Just phone a wholesaler. Hey, REGA is good example of UK innovation. There are many similar examples in Europe like Atoll, Exposure, Focal etc... So you’re not a marginal for buying locally manufactured goods. "Do you really think that multinational globalist companies care about any of that?" That’s precisely the problem. It’s extremely political. Nations should keep globalist companies in check. But it’s the other around: globalist companies are suing countries for natural resources and to freeze the minimum wage etc... Ultimately, I believe that it’s really easy to buy high quality UK produced gear on the used market. This is especially true in France since the local population doesn’t seem to care about UK brands such as Arcam, Rega, Creek or Castle. I scored a Creek 4240 for 130€ recently and the owner told me he was trying to sell that thing for over 1 year. So I feel obliged to buy British. A comparable Atoll IN30 would sell for 400€ used. The average buyer isn't as informed as you might think. Let's just say that a dozen brands like Polk, Wharfedale, Focal, Klipsch, B&W, KEF, Wilson Audio etc... get all of the coverage. You can't really circumvent that problem, there are too many brands. But it's silly to me that people are paying full retail for a pair of KEF LS50 when there are better options on the used market for way less $ or just a few hundred more on the new market. |
@cd318 . I buy what ever the wallet fits and agree with you. The world is globally sourced with so many MFG. Consumers are well educated today and know a good buy when they see one along with using the judgement of diminishing returns. |
Your point of view is so problematic at a micro-economic level. Do you really think that multinational globalist companies care about any of that?
You may as well make everyone in the West disappear from existence because there’s cheaper labor somewhere else. Now, now, don’t give them any more ideas.
The end result is de-industrialization, loss of skilled labor, dependence on other countries for essential products, loss of negotiation power, increasing inequality, lower living standards, lower state tax income (public services/utilities getting worse) etc… Yes, we know. We’ve seen this happening for decades. The UK once had a thriving motorcycle industry which disappeared almost overnight. Hardly anyone misses it now.
Besides it’s still possible for small home-grown companies to succeed if they are innovative enough. Rega are an obvious example of a consistently innovative company that has managed to succeed globally and yet also keep it’s production based in the UK. On that score it’s a model example to everyone else. We should also remember that after market back up and care matter too. Especially when you're buying products that might cost half of your annual salary. I remember when I bought my Rega 3 it came with a lifetime guarantee, but I didn’t realise this also applies to every Rega product! -------- "So confident are we in our ability, Rega offers a lifetime warranty against manufacture defects on every single product we make."
https://www.rega.co.uk/about/history
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@kennyc Your point of view is so problematic at a micro-economic level. You may as well make everyone in the West disappear from existence because there’s cheaper labor somewhere else. This extreme cost cutting mentality needs to stop. The end result is de-industrialization, loss of skilled labor, dependence on other countries for essential products, loss of negotiation power, increasing inequality, lower living standards, lower state tax income (public services/utilities getting worse) etc… Just take up the challenge of producing locally with long term wealth goals. Focus on quality over quantity and price. The High End Munich show proves that this is possible with the countless European manufacturers. Furthermore, these products don’t have to be priced out of reach for regular customers. There are many great offerings under $2k which outperform the KEF LS50 with local manufacturing.
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It shouldn’t matter where it’s produced as long as proper/adequate quality control is managed during the manufacturing process. China has significantly cheaper labor and the technical expertise that makes manufacturing there attractive to cut costs to stay competitive. Buying domestically only to support local businesses seems like a good idea, but we now live in a global economy. Parts are sourced from many non-domestic sources. Generally, it makes no business sense to pay more for a part than us necessary. Businesses are for profit so cutting costs directly helps. However, there are exceptions- some businesses may want the tighter control of manufacturing locally, and they can afford to do so because the market will pay the increased costs. And realistically, I doubt buying domestic only will have a much of a financial impact since the majority doesn’t follow this thinking. |
@cd318 I apologize I deleted my post @webking185 was misstating the HD China business. HD is only making small displacement motorcycles in China for the Asian market, though they may be coming to the US. |
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One of the iconic and most recognizable brand is Harley Davidson. those bikes are now made in China too. And no one will care if the quality is the same (or even better). Collectors/ investors/nostalgia buffs are a different breed, but they are not necessarily buying to use and enjoy. For most of us, quality is king and the price is queen. Or something like that. |
I boycotted all countries once my audio low cost system was assembled and optimized... My dap used as a fixed battery dac and files bank is made in china though.. My headphone come from Germany and my amplifier from Japan... Now high qualities speakers cost high money, way too much for me and anyway i know now the difference between a living room and a dedicated acoustic room... But i cannot afford one in my new smaller house... Going back to headphone seems catastrophic for me at first, but some TOP headphone optimized beat most speakers in living room or rival them in her own way, especially the K340 ... Now i boycott every country, china included... i buy NOTHING... I am free 😊
«When my wife is shopping alone , i boycott Germany, you know she is German»--Groucho Marx 🤓 |
@cd318 , Some things can be judge by price, but for luxury goods like audio equipment. I think its highly overrated/marked up in price as these equipment just play music. How much better each amplifier, DAC, speaker, cables are? It will be up to the consumer shelling out the price to find out. US goods has stopped the made in USA concept years ago, many of the product were made in Taiwan, now China and etc... If any of the goods were made here, you know we are paying a fortune for it, and many consumers would cry about the cost being so high. One of the iconic and most recognizable brand is Harley Davidson. those bikes are now made in China too. Lets go figure Competition is competion, nothng is ever on an even playing field unless companies start from scratch with technolgy and were born at the same time.
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Economies of scale. If it was made in the UK or US. $25K
Modern day global business practices often make it a nonsense to judge products by price. This is all good news for the consumer and it's hardly surprising that many businesses have adopted this method of supply. This is bad news for startup companies because the competition is not on a level playing field.
But then again, wasn't it always like this? |
The most expensive loudspeaker designed by Peter Comeau and we still have no idea how it sounds. These are several times more expensive than the highly regarded Lintons but are they worth that difference? I still remember his Heybrook HB1s from way back. I had the Mk2 version and they were excellent all rounders. The made in China thing doesn't bother me at all as long as the people doing the doing the manual work are treated well. The real question is how do they sound? Apart from the odd slightly vague review, there doesn't seem to be a lot of user experience being shared online. |
This topic is 100% political. But I cannot discuss the reasons here. I think you should vote with your wallets. There are plenty of smaller brands with high value which get low attention on social media or the press. It’s just weird to me how brands like B&W and Sonus Faber command a higher price, while manufacturing in China. That’s a failing of dealers to me. Dealers should guide you towards high quality, high value equipment. But it’s so much easier to move B&W, Focal and Sonus Faber product which get max coverage. The buyer is already convinced. |
good point! ac tually wharfedale quite good in middle high and high frequency but the bass not quite good ,,, it is your choice to add same bass panel or not ,,, good luck for your next move ,,,anyway who can help me about transiator ---> https://youtube.com/shorts/zRakw_KIfWI?feature=share thank you very much for everyone who help me lately! |
