Warning: China-Hifi-Audio.com

Thanks for the warning. Could be worse. Thank goodness you are covered through PayPal.

Good to know

Good lesson. Never order anything no matter how it looks from China.
Paypal is usually on the buyer's side.

I'm sorry, you paid $595 for shipping??!!!!!

Let me get this straight, the dealer is selling an item that is being returned,but they do not have in their possession yet?? Am I understanding this correctly? 

What a shame this didn't go well for you.  Best of luck concluding this to your eventual satisfaction.

In my business I learned to anticipate the negative to achieve the positive.

Not to overly defend them in your case, or blame the victim, but, they seem to be a legit source for a lot of good equipment. Every business relies on their reputation.

Perhaps a fresh attempt to solve things to get what you want: assume that they certainly want any/every deal to go smoothly, and are frustrated as you are. 

Perhaps they are acting like a broker for the original purchaser (seller), and the seller misled them, or, they re-ship after they receive it from seller who wanted to use his 'old' UPS account. Once they get it they will use their shipping method.

Listing 'in-stock' certainly was wrong of them.

Language differences, reduced staff from covid, ... , poorly communicating with you, probably unable to give answers if used original purchaser is messing up.

IOW, something went wrong, it takes time to solve it, impatience is your enemy when it goes wrong, IF you still want it.

BTW, I had to re-instate my Fed-Ex account, I had not used it in a long time.

$595 shipping? Typo?

It was a customer return at a discounted price that was inspected and certified as in new condition. What this dealer does apparently is not actively update his listings and many items it turns out he does not actually have items in stock ever though he shows on his website that he had 5 of them for example.

Of all the China dealers he is the one mentioned the most on Youtube reviews of Muzishare and Willsenton and others. I had assumed he was safe. I think he is just a lazy liar now.

And yes $595 for shipping. Probably $200 of that or more is profit but the item price was good so it offset the shipping cost.

I previously purchased a Muzishare X7 from TubeAmplfierStore on Amazon and it was quick free shipping from China to me in under a week. Different story with China-Hifi. What makes me angry is that there is an open claim on Paypal and he cannot even bother to just respond to it so I can have my refund. He is being spiteful and delaying the refund on purpose. 

Will you share what tube amp it is?

Never file a claim with PAYPAL if you used a Credit Card. You ALWAYS call your CC Company up and have them credit your account IMMEDIATELY. Your CC Company is more "powerful" than Paypal and Paypal will start some BS investigation without IMMEDIATELY crediting you your money back. Why wait and have the headache waiting for somebody to rule one way or the other.  You always win with your CC company.   If I was you I would bypass Paypal RIGHT NOW and call up your CC company and have your account credited for the full amount.

The amp was Willsenton R-800i 300B 845.

I just got the refund email from Paypal. Maybe the seller reads this forum?

Lesson learned. If you order from them try emailing first to be sure item is in stock.

Thank you for all your helpful comments.

Make sure you call a few times and talk to a human about this through PayPal.
this works better than just emails, explain how much tou paid, the time wasted and no contact from the seller, etc.

we have had numerous claims through PayPal over the years, they have come through %99 of the time.
Keep on top of it with phone calls and emails to the seller about the amount of time which has passed, the no contact, the amount of money already paid, and still no contact. Keep the email messages between you and the seller printed, or let PayPal know to look at your acct, and all the “non reply” of the seller.

Great luck, we hope all works out for you. We know what your going through!,!


Best of luck & Happy Easter.



  @calieng

  glad to hear the refund came through. Be careful out there.
I would never drop 500$ on a shipping charge.  But sometimes it’s a necessary evil.  
   Hey I have paid 400+$ for a single LP before, so I know about trust. Luckily I have onl Y been taken advantage of twice in internet sales scams.   😡🤮😁

   Years back, I was interested in shindak, and the ther brand of tube amps and preamps, I almost did thee buy, buy decided to bu some else.  

I am shocked, shocked, to hear of problems with China.

"Why would you buy any Chinese dealer stuff??"

Because the actual items are good for the price. I have a Willsenton R-300B and Muzishare X7 and would recommend both.

There are a lot of good reviews on Youtube from Steve Guttenberg, Zero Fidelity, Thomas and Stereo and others of Chinese gear. But yes I do believe in supporting USA and Europe and others when I can. Have bought Schiit and NAD and others recently too. Just have to be careful which Chinese dealer you use.

I’m with ebm, why would anyone buy direct from a Chinese reseller today? It’s a great cautionary tale for others on this forum. That’s not racist, just realistic. Thank your lucky stars for Paypal! I hope this all works out for calieng, but a $595 shipping charge. Yikes, my eyes are rolling!

I agree with the above post. When you think of all the good tube amps you can get that are already stateside, why pay 600.00 shipping for something from China. Hell if you really want a chinese amp, there are plenty of resellers here that will help you out.

Unless the amp was 100.00 and you paid the 600.00 for shipping, this seems like a bad idea. Even at a hundred bucks, still bad idea. Not sure I'd want to plug my speakers into that.

FWIW, good luck with getting your money back.

Oz

Sounds to me like the seller acted in good faith and that the buyer has little to complain about.   As noted above, you cannot expect a transaction where neither party is fluent in the other's language to go completely smoothly and efficiently.

"Sounds to me like the seller acted in good faith and that the buyer has little to complain about.  As noted above, you cannot expect a transaction where neither party is fluent in the other's language to go completely smoothly and efficiently."

The seller acted in good faith by selling an item he did not even have and ignoring messages and delaying a refund for 2 weeks. The sellers english is fine. 

Seriously???

Once again I will warn to act with caution if buying from that site. 

"I agree with the above post. When you think of all the good tube amps you can get that are already stateside, why pay 600.00 shipping for something from China. Hell if you really want a chinese amp, there are plenty of resellers here that will help you out."

The amp was $800 less than buying from the Amazon dealer (including tax). By all means let me know which USA dealer has these products or something equivalent for a similar price?

@calieng
Thanks for the warning!

I once bought a power conditioner online for my servers - was only about $80. Sketchy Chinese site but I had no idea.

Here’s the link: https://www.cyberbunkers.com/2020/12/rnathaliecom-reviews-is-rnathaliecom.html?m=1

In the end, I never received anything. The Seller’s English was very poor over email, but being the decent human being I am, I thought to not pass judgements. I actually believed that I would receive the unit.

If you like Chinese Hi-Fi (great value for the money) then only buy from reputable sites and brands.

Good brands:
Woo Audio
HiFiMan
Topping
Douk Audio

Jesus Christ...$595 for shipping?

What did you order?! Did that amp come with a free elephant?!?🐘

Good luck with getting your money back.

By all means let me know which USA dealer has these products or something equivalent for a similar price?

Unless I missed it, I never saw where you were specific about what you bought. All I saw was "tube amp".

Hey, we all want a bargain. But sometimes the old "you get what you pay for" adage holds true, whether we like it or not.

check out those brands I listed... they're great 😃👍

For anyone who missed it above the seller just refunded thru Paypal today. Maybe because they saw this or another post about them. 

It was a Willsenton R-800i single ended integrated amp with 300B and 845 tubes. Price shipped was $2k. for the customer return item. I would guess with double box the shipping weight was close to 100lbs. So I figured there was maybe $200 profit in the shipping price.

But as I said I welcome any suggestions on a 300B/845 amp that can be had in USA for $2k. I am still looking for something.

Thanks.

I've got a Mastersound compact 845 for sale but it won't be $2k, maybe $4.5k

China has all the best technology, all the most highly skilled workers with the cleanest air, best working conditions, greatest benefits and most freedom in the world. No child or forced labor in China, no sir! When China sells a product cheap you can be sure it is because they work so hard to design and build better than anyone else, and not because they stole and copied it. Also you can be assured of the world standard in customer service, China being practically right next door and having all the same high standards of customer care as we do. Probably better even.    

I am shocked, shocked to hear of problems with China.

When a deal too good to be TRUE, don't JUMP AT IT but call EBM ASAP!   DUDE!!!

To be fair, I had similar problems couple of times with American dealers, nothing to do with audio, military and outdoors equipment dealers. I was trying to buy high end flashlights. Paypal did fine for me, yeah it did take a few weeks.

I ordered a Willsenton R8 from China-Hi-Fi in Feb and it was delivered a week or two ago. Just got around to hooking it up, but it appears the BIAS indicator doesn’t work. Stuck at the lowest setting for every tube. I’ve emailed them for help but not going to expect a stellar turn around time. We’ll see what happens.

I knew the risk going in and bought the amp based off other reviews, but the amp is quite useless if I can’t bias the tubes correctly with the indicator. 
Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you get what you pay for.

Shocked, shocked https://youtu.be/XopSDJq6w8E?t=88

Hey Calieng,

I too ordered a Wilsenton amp, though a different model from China hi-fi. Their communication was absolutely terrible with me as well. Same issues. However, the amo did arrive as promised though with a heavy delivery fee (about $400 I think). The upside was the amp arrived as promised and even with the high delivery fee, is still an accept I also value and I absolutely love it.. 

just thought I’d give you my experience.

I hope everything turns out ok for you. 
Best

Benj

I bought from Apos who gets from China.  They worked fine and great communication. Find a good dealer here and use them. They were a week late and gave me $50 off. 

Why would you buy any Chinese dealer stuff??

Try and buy a better DAC than from Matrix Audio (based in Xi'an).  Best ESS DAC chip, other parts are top-of-the-line, build quality is perfect, good looking design, all the bells and whistles including balanced connections.  My unit even has the ability to take I2S input!  

Sorry about your experience with them, as with hundreds of others. For me I’ve had nothing but excellent service from the owner, to the point where we became good personal friends. That shipping seems very high (typo?). Personally I always use by sea vs. by air to the US (NJ), which is reasonably priced with no issues. 

I just checked again for that same amp it is $595.80 for Fedex / UPS/ DHL 3-7 day shipping to USA. It weighs 48kg. That may be the real cost. I know international shipping has gotten more expensive. Some of the other amps are $300 to ship but they weigh half as much.

I have read other posts about the owner in product reviews both good and bad. He may be a nice guy and just overworked. 

Yeah it's so much better living in a democratic society like ours, where the people's right to vote is respected, everyone gets a living wage, health care is a priority, large corporations work tirelessly for the betterment of their workers, and all businesses are reputable.

But obviously, if in the interest of saving a bundle, you decide to buy sight unseen from a dealer you don't know in a country where they speak a language you also don't know, well, you takes your chances, no? 
 (Btw, since one poster mentioned it above, yes, I've had good luck and communication with Douk Audio, even when a piece of their equipment went up in smoke well after warrantee expired.)

Thanks for letting us know but this is why it is so hard to order on the internet because you run into these types of things.

And here's a friendly warning about PayPal
I have been double billed by Netflix for a year. I contacted Netflix and they refused to acknowledge this - saying I had two subscriptions. Who has two subscriptions to Netflix? Pay Pal denied my claim.

"Try and buy a better DAC than from Matrix Audio (based in Xi'an). Best ESS DAC chip, other parts are top-of-the-line, build quality is perfect, good looking design, all the bells and whistles including balanced connections. My unit even has the ability to take I2S input!  "

Denafrips Terminator!

(I only have Pontus - not rich enough to pay extra for the Terminator).

$595 shipping?
Were then sending it in a taxi?

Well ... I've had my share of warranty and shipping challenges with "democratic society" buying experiences from 'onshore / nearshore / homeland / domestic / major outlet / mainstream / reputable / regulated / covered / insured / serviceable' (whichever descriptor you wish to use) to describe US-based distribution channels, so this is not a region-specific issue. In today's world any purchase that involves the internet and a warehouse is going to face some % of risk, so pandemic or non-pandemic the only variables are supply chain and shipping times.

@calieng Again, my experiences have proven satisfactory so I'm willing to help resolve if necessary.

Sorry you had a crappy experience. Seems like it got sorted out.

And the usual suspects pipe up of course, and get on their high horses and spew the moral superiority we have all grown accustomed to.   Oh, our lovely neighbors to the south. Kinda got yourself to blame for a certain country being in a position to economically devastate you. Your greedy corporations moved production over there because they could exploit the cheap labor to produce cheap product for the entitled population back home that wanted stuff -  for cheap. Too bad. Perhaps, the manufacturers who make world class product there, might get the respect they deserve had that not been the case.
And thankfully, there is no exploitation of the labor force south of the border. Nor is there any issues with education, healthcare or making it easy for every citizen to vote freely. No human rights issues there.

I’m absolutely shocked how many people in this thread are saying they’ve bought amps from China. I wouldn’t hook up a free amp from China to my speakers (out of fear of damaging them), let alone purchase one. No offense intended to anyone, but frankly standards have to be extremely low to even consider 99.9% of Chinese amps, particularly with the outrageous shipping charges cited that could partially go towards the price of an amp manufacturer of trust. There are way too many quality amps at various price ranges to justify even considering China for anything other than Dollar Store grade throw away items. Start a search with forum recommendations on Audiogon and Stereophile reviews. There is a reason respected publications to my knowledge never even review amps from China. I read the most pathetic sole “review” of the model that started this thread that didn’t even attempt to talk about the most important factor that matters - sound quality. Instead it was Amazon ratings and appearance from a “reviewer” that clearly knew nothing about audio. Huge red flag.

Look folks, there are some simple rules you must always follow when engaging in our hobby:
1. When purchasing anything from anyone you don’t have a good multi transaction history with in the US, always pay with credit card or PayPal/credit card and American Express is the best IMO in standing behind the customer when disputing a charge. 2. When buying overseas, no matter the history or whatever ALWAYS pay with a credit card or PayPal/credit card. 3. Even when paying PayPal f/f always pay with credit card and pay the fee to do so. The peace of mind is worth it. 4. Do not buy from China Hifi and pay exorbitant BS shipping no matter what. 5. Most of the stuff from China Hifi can be bought either from Apos or Amazon. If you don’t like you return it to Amazon. Easy. If you bought it and you need to return it to China well you deserve what you get. You rolled the dice and lost. 6. There are reputable Chinese dealers that you can trust. But still pay with credit card. Normally the shipping from these dealers is either free or reasonable. Examples: Vinshine Audio (Denafrips), and Jay’s Audio. There are others. But still use a credit card always. You need a good credit card company standing behind you.
7. Do not deal with low or no feedback people on eBay, Agon and usaudiomart. They have low feedback for a reason. Steer clear. 8. Does this mean avoid Chinese products? No. Your iPhone is made in China as well as half the things in your house. I bought a Boyuurange A50 Mk3 300B tube amp just for kicks because Steve Gutenberg loved it. I got it from Amazon with an Amazon credit card. As it turns out. I love this thing! Such a deal. But if it hadn’t worked out. I either take it to Kohl’s or UPS and I’m done with it and my $ comes back. That is worth any extra cost. If you don’t take these precautions the money you think you’re “saving” will be spent on your time chasing down the seller, PayPal etc. Not worth it. Be smart. Good luck. 

Bummer to hear. I actually bought a small item on that website and, while the whole thing felt a bit janky, my merchandise arrived and everything was fine. 

Although the USA might not be much better, I have learned NOT to buy from overseas companies.

@mastering92

Woo Audio, is a NY based company 

"By all means let me know which USA dealer has these products or something equivalent for a similar price?"
Decware?

I am not against doing business with Chinese companies or Chinese people. I love Chinese culture, but I am against funding the Chinese government and military. Buying Chinese is funding the world's most dangerous and pernicious surveillance state. For many products it's unavoidable. For HiFi it's highly avoidable. (I know many parts are manufactured there.) Not funding China is helping forestall the day the US will bow to the will of the Chinese government.

It's a gamble ordering anything from China, from audio to fitness equipment. Some consumers make out okay but a lot of them don't. I'll buy Chinese-made goods but only those already in the USA.