Leaving your system on all the time can dry out the electrolytic capacitors (even on tube equipment). I would say this is not advisable. You can leave it on if you want, but you'll wear out your caps in a few years or less. On solid state stuff, I usually need about 45-60 minutes before it sounds best. |
Mine is an all tube system and it comes alive after about 25 minutes and really shines at 45 to 60. |
Sounds great from the start
Alan |
I have a tube preamp and a SS amp I turn them on an hour before I'm ready to listen. |
The only virtue in leaving tube equipment on all the time is you'll need more frequent tube replacements. Complete waste of money and energy. |
My manufacture recommends 30 minutes for optimal performance and I agree with their assessment. Both my pre and power amps also have a standby switch which I use for short periods when away from the system.
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My system seems to takes 30min-1hr. It is left off and unplugged much of the time between listening sessions. Not sure what each component contributes to this need, DAC, tube pre, SS amp, speakers. No one seems to mention speakers however I can't help but believe they also sound best once driver elements reach thermal equilibrium. Not sure of the temporal requirement for this. |
While I agree that some warm up time is good, especially for tubed equipment, I think the major factor in improvement of sound over time is the human hearing and recognition ability. |
I keep on SS gear all the time for best sound. This is especially true for digital front ends and class D amps. |
I have a class D amp. The NuForce technician told me something very interesting: He said it's not good for a switching amp to be on without being connected to a running pre-amp with a source playing. Therefore, when warming it up I have the tuner playing at very low volume.
i have a tube pre-amp (Conrad-Johnson) which also benefits from the warm-up.
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It takes about an hour for my all SS system when "cold", meaning unplugged. My gear has a standby setting which dramatically reduces the warm-up time, but there still is one. |
I find that the phono section of my pre-amp is warmed up only by playing records
at fairly loud volume. Just keeping the pre-amp on for a period of time doesn't do the trick. |
I know I contradicted myself in the last post. When I got to think of it, the phono section of the pre-amp required separate warm-up.
Sorry!
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auxinput is correct.
All solid state devices consist of metals, metal oxides and binders to bond them together. Overtime the solvent in the binders begin to evaporate and contributes to the resistor, diode or what have you, deteriorating.
I have mostly tube equipment, so I like to play a recording at low level, to put all electromechanical, and electrical functions of all components in a working state for 10-15 minutes or so (sometimes less), before I sit down to serious focused listing. I feel there is advantage to allowing the processed signal from you cartridge (or other source) to complete transmission thru your speakers, where the signal is processed thru the tube grids opposed to the tubes in an idle state, speaker motors in a working state warming up and working the surround material, interconnects transferring signals, etc.
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I’m running a Class D Taranis by Merrill Audio. Got a bit concerned by rvpiano’s tech’s comment about "on with no input signal" being bad for Class D. Checked with Merrill W., the designer of the Taranis, since my usual practice is to power down all gear except the Taranis. The Taranis does not have a conventional on/off power switch. Merrill assured me the Taranis will not suffer from being powered up though receiving no signal. Worth noting he did NOT say this might not be an issue for other designs.
The OP topic has been covered previously, never the less things sound better to me after 30-60 minutes playing music even if gear is turned on to warm up prior to that. Agree with those who speculate this might be a psycho-acoustic effect as much as hardware related.
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I turn my system on about an hour before listening. Three hours later it is swinging. But I do keep it on for full weekends at times. I have found in my case my solid state amp and ancilarys improve in sound up to the next day after turn on.
I know, that is what I was thinking to. |
My system takes at least 45 minutes to warm up and sound correct. Turn it on once if Im going to listen then I turn it off once.
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In response to ghosthouse, the psycho-acoustic effect is enhanced even more with a glass of Scotch.
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I’m running a Class D Taranis by Merrill Audio. Got a bit concerned by rvpiano’s tech’s comment about "on with no input signal" being bad for Class D.
There is absolutely no reason why running without input signal would be bad for any class D amp. This strange advice was given by NuForce technician? Are they still in business? |
Starting with the sources...
VPI recommends turning on the table 30 minutes before use (VPI Aries)
AT-OC9/II phono cartridge usually takes one record side / 20 minutes to sound "right"
Herron VTPH-2 comes up the same time as the OC9/II -- 20-30 minutes
Transport takes zero time
DAC takes about an hour though I often just leave it on
Herron VTSP-3A about half an hour
Herron M-1 amps varies so I leave them on 24/7
Speakers need time depending on how long they have been idle. Anything more than two weeks takes as much as an hour, maybe more.
My typical listening session starts an hour or more before I actually start listening. I power up the entire system and start playing music through the DAC. If I'm going to listen to vinyl, I play one record side while I listen to a CD through the DAC. I do not leave the turntable playing a record unattended.
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The original NuForce is not in business, but there exists a technician who worked for them who is in business (called TDSS) repairing and upgrading NuForce equipment.
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rvpiano, I second you on the Scotch - very effective. |
I third you on the scotch and raise you on a fine French burdeux
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My preamp 24 1/2 min amp is 31 1/2 min then they sound way cool. |
Leaving your system on all the time can dry out the electrolytic capacitors (even on tube equipment). This statement is incorrect. Usually filter caps have the longest life if kept charged. However, they don't like heat, insofar as long life is concerned. |
Atmasphere, thank you for your post. That is how I understood it also. Heat is the enemy really. |
It is simply drying out of electrolyte. Every 10 degrees Celsius temperature increase cuts capacitor life by half. Presence of voltage on capacitor is beneficial since it is rebuilding dielectric layer (aluminum oxide). Without voltage electrolyte slowly eats up this layer. |
Well, maybe it's all in my head, instead of my ears, but it seems like my Kell FPB 400cx "comes in" after it's been on all day. That's when I really think it sounds great. |
My Gato Amp-150 has a "warm-up" feature that brings the amp to optimum temps in 15 minutes. My other amps take about an hour or so. |
My Accuphase E600 sounds fine after 20 - 30 minutes. Sure, it gets better after awhile but that could also be attributed to a second cocktail. I used to sweat this stuff but not anymore. I just sit back, off center, and listen to all of my music. Don't sweat the small stuff. As long as it sounds great after it warms up you're in better shape than all the people that can't part with money for room treatments. |
Class D 'warm-up' depends on the loop design. Bruno's work is quicker - think 1/2hr to 1hr. IR based amps can take several hours. Others like ICE probably should be left on. 'Warm-up' is an asymptotic curve, so there's no absolute # - these are just guidelines. Longer the better.
All audio electronics have 'memory' issues thanks to physics of the materials. Caps, resistors, wire, all dielectrics, active devices - all that stuff. Even speakers (mechanical equivalents of previous). SO any warm-up or low-level maintenance for sonic quality should be driven with an 'AC' signal with load(s). Static 'warm-up' has value, but won't provide complete results.
Caps failing under continuous bias is a design issue. Electrolytics are a special case as they do have (xxxx)hr ratings. If your equipment does not have these things (look for cans with polarity indication), run as long as you can prior to use. Infinite is good.
Tube amplification w/o 'standby' are incomplete designs. Tube filaments benefit from not being flipped on/off all the time. Commercial tube equipment (like in radio/tv stations) were always left on - standby off while the stations were off air. Studios, same deal. |
I do worry about the lights being on all of the time and burning out prematurely. My concern is always about the power surge. Turning it on and off is probably the most stressful challenge to the capacitors, tubes, bulbs, etc. Any thoughts about this? |
My system takes 30 to 45 Minutes to sound great! |
Great posts! My Don Sachs preamp takes few minutes to sound its best and my McCormack DNA .05 Deluxe SS amp clearly takes a 30 minutes to sound optimally. "Ear-lube" attributed to a beer or two might bias my impressions as "donjr"suggests above. As a green-leaning guy, I can't bring myself to keeping my gear powered up 24/7. |
"allowing the processed signal from you cartridge (or other source) to complete transmission thru your speakers, where the signal is processed thru the tube grids opposed to the tubes in an idle state, speaker motors in a working state warming up and working the surround material, interconnects transferring signals, etc."
- say whut? |
Once turned on my tube amp takes 60 seconds before sound can be heard. That is for amp protection. Just enough time to pour the Jamison. Sounds great from the start and better every sip. |
I'm not a scotch drinker, but my tube system sounds better after a couple of beers. Seriously, I think both the amps and pre-amps are in their stride after a half hour's running from a cold start. Leaving the pre-amps on 24/7 is just a waste of electricity and more importantly, a waste of those priceless electrons. When I hit the feathers, everything's off. |
Everyone is basically correct here. Solid State equipment usually takes about 30-60 minutes to get warm and stable. Electrolytic caps don't like heat but like being charged all the time. Tube filaments should always be on for a at least 30s before HV is applied. Using tube rectifiers automatically fixes this issue as they don't put out any HV until they themselves are warm. This BTW does not only apply to HiFi equipment but also to e.g. microwave ovens and radar transmitters. They need about 5 minutes to get warm since the magnetron is a big solid lump of metal. The ideal solution for tubes would be to have a low voltage pre-heat applied to the filaments all the time that keeps them warm but not glowing.
So what should one do? Leave equipment on or switch them off? Well, It comes down to for how long time it will not be in use, the amount of energy it consumes when idle vs in stand-by or off and if you want to wait for it to warm up... |
keeping your equipment on 24/7 is the best way I know of to decrease the life expectancy of your equipment, big time! Heat is the killer of electronic components. Heat is generated by tubes, high wattage resistors, high current output transistors etc. This is why fans / heat sinks etc. are incorporated. If you have ever looked at a PCB with high wattage resistors attached you will see darken areas where they are, plus cold solder joints forming.
The electrolyte paste in power capacitors, will dry out if just setting on a shelf or in equipment not being utilized. Sometimes you can bring a electrolytic back to life by reforming it with a voltage source that is regulated.
Bottom line , to turn your equipment off when not listening is the best service you can do to your equipment. But don't just let it set for months on end without operation.
All audio equipment electronically speaking, will be up to full reproductive audio response after a minimum of ten minutes. Resistors, capacitors, diodes, solid state devices, etc. do not have a warm up period or break in time. The only component that can benefit from time on is a valve tube. because of the electrons boiling off the filament, increase conductivity with longer on time.
Tube equipment will begin to degrade over time do in part to an oxide coating that develops on the filament, not allowing for full conduction of the electrons to the grid and plate of the tube. |
There are many "authoritative" answers here.
i wonder which ones are right.
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The designer of my tube integrated said that it's fully warm and stable after 15 minutes. I'll give it at least 5 before starting any playback, and 15+ before sitting down for a listen.
My DAC/Pre (no tubes) stays on 24/7.
My office system has a Yamaha 2-ch receiver I bought in 1996. I've only turned it off about seven times, ever -- and it still sings. |
I believe rvpiano said it best. There’s been lots of threads about this already. One member mentioned awhile ago that a SACD player needs to be on for about 2-3 days to sound its best. Others have stated that SS gear needs to be on 24/7 unless not listened to for several days to a week. As much as I listen, I leave it all on 24/7. Everything is barely warm, at best. In fact, I can hardly feel the difference.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Leave it on for extended life in many instances. My Class D amp runs very cool so heat is not an issue. Small preamp signal tubes last longer on as studies and real life experience show. Turning the tubes on and off often reduces tube life faster than just leaving them on. As always it depends on the design with no blanket statements applying to all gear. |
I leave it all on, even my Lampizator stays on(read manual). I turn them off if there is an electrical storm in the area or if I am leaving home for several days. I've had some SS devices that take 3 days to really come alive and do what they are capable of. Try it and hear for yourself, it won't hurt them. If leaving it on is going to harm it, you don't want it anyway.
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Tube pre and power amps - turn on - warm up - turn off after you finish listening
Solid state - leave on 24/7 for best sound
Everything has a warmup period, regardless of what you do, when you start your listening period.
The higher the resolution of your system, the more noticeable the warm up effect.
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I have a bel canto power amp.
Instructions say 40 hours for complete warm-up
from a cold start. So, I leave it on unless I leave town.
Any advice from those with bel canto experience? |
Tube should be designed with an "idle circuit" - if not, I'd wonder about the designer.
While heat can be a killer of electronic components, the real killer is voltage spikes. They can happen from turn on.
Electrolytics from about 20 years ago or so are well known for some longevity issues. Dunno if they changed the paste or what -- or if so, when... |
I've got a Simaudio 700i amplifier and if I unplug it from the outlet it takes several days before it sounds like magic again. Using the standby switch on the front panel only mutes the inputs and turns off the front panel display. The amp stays just about as warm in standby as it does when it's turned on without music playing. I've heard it draws around 70 watts or so in standby and 90 idling. They must have a reason for designing it in this manner. I never unplug it or use the rear panel AC switch unless I'm going away for longer than a week or so. |
reality is your brain ......'psycho - acoustical' part takes longer than most of ones gear. First half hour for your components, the second half our for the brain to 'accept it' !
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What are all you guys smoking? With SS equipment, it only takes a fractions of a second to reach stability, with tubes it might take a few seconds only! How can you prove that what you hear 45 minutes later from the same source and media sounds any different? |
