Vintage Japanese DD Consult and Suggestions Please

Ba know I. The day I had my choice of Technics or JVC tables and settled on the JVC QL-7. Hands down better tonearm, better motor technology. Also better looking. A Denon DP-80 seemed kina spendy, and there was no dealer within 300 miles. Lots of miles and turntables later, I've got a VPI Prime Scout. It's the only one I thought was the equal of that JVC. I'd buy another in heartbeat if I found one. The biggest difference was in the tonearms. The JVC was simply better in no small part because it was significantly longer and more adjustable. Rumor it was the table used to develop the Shibata stylus whose thin profile made it subject to 'chattering ' on inner groves from tracing error when mounted in the standard 9" (229 mm) tonearm. That geometry was true then, true today. 

PbN built DP-80 motors / incredible plinths for Lyra… as in Lyra Japan. Those are formidable.. I would say before i upgraded my Triplaner to the CF armwand , etc, especially silver wire the 505 was in many ways the equal… nits… 

Armboard with epoxy/bentonite will be too damped.. Frank Kuzma told me that even polycarnonate amboard would suck out LF from his arms.  You can try epoxy/steel balls mixture which would be easier to work with and you should be able to increase loading as balls have much lower surface area than bentonite.

I used polyester epoxy with 1% catalyst and 60/40 bentonite/epoxy  ratio. To get an optimal ratio you should cast small samples and watch for shrinkage, carcks and curing. Once you find  the otimal range it is very easy to cast. 

What do you use on your Technics? Ulike other Denon plinths Dk300 is made from engineerd wood and it is quite stiif. I've tryed to make an armboard  out of Al as that time I had only table saw and it did not make much difference to my ears. Carbon steel or bronze would be probably better options.

"why not buy a new Technics or comparable unit” ..because of x2/x3/x4 price vs well performing/built vintage? Also, some fellow audiophiles want to spend some time building systems, aka hobby. 

JVC (Victor) QL7 incorporates their TT71 motor/chassis, which is their third from the top of the Victor commercial line, which was the TT101. Yes, I think it does use a coreless motor, which I like too, but the DP80 was Denon's top of the line commercial TT (excluding the DP100, etc, which were for studio use).  Its iron core motor was optimized by Denon for smooth running and very stable speed. Further, the Denon has the split platter which isolates the LP from bearing noise. I would not dismiss the DP80 compared to the QL7/TT71 just based on the coreless motor in the latter. I also own a TT101, and I do like it also. I cannot compare the TT101 to the DP80, because the Victor drives my Beveridge system (alternating with Lenco) whereas the Denon drives my Sound Lab system (alternating with SP10 Mk3 and Kenwood L07D).

@laaudionut, "resembling DJ decks, which is not my preferred look, however. "

Yes, that is unfortunate and has caused lots of confusion for those looking at Technics products.  In fact the original SL-1200 was introduced in 1975 as a home audio product.  Through the years upgraded versions were introduced until the time where CDs severely impacted sales.  I've read Technics considered discontinuing that model, except sales suddenly increased because it was discovered by DJs which created a new market.  As a result the SL-1200 family became known informally as DJ tables due to their dominance in that field.  Now many consider it something designed for DJs rather than different purposed home audio applications.

So I considered it very unfortunate when Technics introduced the newly revised SL-1000/SP-10/SL-1200GAE a few years ago that they didn't redesign the overall appearance to differentiate it more from the older AL-1200 series.  That also seemed to drag along the DJ connotations, even while a much different design.

I overcame my own "look" prejudices more than a year ago and bought a SL-1200G.  I'm very pleased with the build and performance.

Dear @laaudionut   : I own/owned the Denon 80/75 several Technics SP10 and JVC.

You ask for better sound but TT per sé must has not any sound, it will be " dead silence ".

Now, the Today Technics motor design is a better design that any of its vintage brothers due that the motor drive is acoreless one that not even the SP10MK3 had.

I can't understand wwhy you are looking for vintage DD  where you don't have any warranty that be in perfect operation condition and where is really a " pain in the ass " fix any trouble on it when a new today Technics  IMHO is a way better option.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

I love my JVC QLY66F.  I bought it a few years ago.  At first, I thought it was horrible.  It howled like a banshee at higher volumes.  I replaced the feet and stuffed as much plasticlay as I could inside the plinth and now it sounds and looks beautiful.  It was my main table for some time and is what I've been using with a Denon DL-301 MK2 for the last two years or so to play grade all of my records.  I've probably played well over 2,000 records on it now and am on my second DL-301 MK2.  When it was in my main system I put some much better carts on it and it responded well to those.  It has great drive and dynamics.

Raul, I more or less agree with your sentiments, but the OP specifically asked about vintage Japanese DDs. Thus he’s receiving opinions about vintage Japanese DDs. As to the SP10 mk3 vs the SP10R, JP Jones owns both and conducted a meticulous comparison test, using measurements not “I like it”. He shared some data with me, showing no significant differences between the two.

@lewm +1 “JP Jones owns both and conducted a meticulous comparison test, using measurements not “I like it”. He shared some data with me, showing no significant differences between the two."

I hear very small, both direction, mostly record and cartridge driven difference, between: SL1200MK4/SL1200GAE/SL1000MK2/SP10R..

SP10R with EPA100MK2 arm wins clearly only on excellent quality records.. for so-so records, there is no difference! as of measurements, it’s the same story, precise/low-noise-dist test vinyls is hard to find, mostly I have are lower quality than best music vinyls..

@alexv Thanks for the starting formula.  i was an indentured servant in a pattern shop, i am fluent in adjusting for shrinkage…

The armboards on my dual arm plinth are 30 mm Aero grade hardened / anodized aluminum. in the well on the plinth i’ve added Kinetic sand. I’ve got a few wood armboard in work including Ebony root and purpleheart and Panzerholtz. i have a lot of respect for Franz as i run his imo lovely sounding CAR-40.

@lewm i believe a good deal of the magic of the big Denon are due the split platter and the magnetic pulse speed control system on the inside rim of the platter. Glad you mentioned platter. I should probably get an SP-10 of some ilk and muck about with that…

best to all in music

westcoast, JP Jones is a professional in the field of electronics. (I don't know exactly his degree level; he could be an EE or a physicist.) Until recently, he ran a business (Fidelis Analog) dedicated to the care and feeding of Technics DDs.  It was my good fortune that he agreed to look at my "broken" Victor TT101, where he found a trivial but near invisible problem (a crack across a tracing in a PCB hiding under a blob of solder and causing a maddening intermittent speed problem) that eluded several other smart guys, and he fixed it. As you may know, he designed and built a PCB using discrete parts that replicates the function of the unobtainable chip that governs speed of the SP10 and lower level series of vintage Technics tables, and yet is small enough to directly replace the chip in the power supply (MN8042 is the chip designation, going only on my memory of the alphanumberic code). Therefore, he was able to test performance of the tables to a level and using methods that I don't completely understand. I bought my SP10 Mk3 in NOS condition, and I did not need to replace the chip, but I did it anyway, because JPs PCB outperforms the OEM chip out at the 4th or 5th decimal place where it probably does not matter much. So I take his comparative analysis of the 10R vs the 10 Mk3 seriously.  He owns both.

Tomic, yes the platter is both a virtue and a potential Achilles heel of the Denon DDs. (If anything should happen to damage the tape glued to the inside rim of the platter, I think it's curtains for the TT.)

lewm, JP may substantiate this but I believe his chip replacement is for the SP-10 Mk 3 and the SP-15.  It is not a replacement for any of the SP-10 Mk 2 series.

Pryso, It was my impression that the MN6082 was used in the MK3 and in many if not all of the original 1200 series TTs, and probably the SP15, as you say, but I am not sure either way about the MK2. I would have thought it was also used there but could be wrong. I think JP has left the building but not on the irreversible path taken by Elvis, fortunately.

Aha! I just did a quick search.  Apparently the MN6082 was only used in Technics TTs that have variable pitch. That would not include the Mk2 but does include the others.

@laaudionut

I have a SP10 Mk 2, PD444, and LO7D and would add simply that all three are great choices.  Each will likely need to be re-capped if not already serviced.  All are satisfying in stock form, but will benefit with addition of modern footers and siting, re-lube, silicon nitride bearing, etc.

Overall the Luxman is probably the most satisfying in terms of reasonable cost, superb vintage esthetic, flexibility in adapting modern or vintage tonearms, and simplicity of maintenance/DIY speed adjustment as per factory service notes with a multimeter.  I found that its plinth design can be improved by substituting thick brass in place of the stock steel armboards.  For a further reduction in plinth resonance, I replaced the archaic stock RCA switch box attached to the bottom of the plinth with a solid wood subplinth that serves as a pedestal for a third arm base out front that accepts standard Micro Seiki cantilevered armboards.  All in all a great piece that is seldom discussed relative to other vintage DD.          

+1 for the Yamaha GT 2000 (L, X). HIFIDO in Japan has them available now and then. And they go through all of the electronics, motor, bearings to assure it is in top form, then double box with injection foam. I have A/B'd with a very well regarded JVC QL-A75 from that same highest Japanese R and D era and the GT is more transparent with finer micro/macro detail. Most all are Japan 100V. But the GT2000 has a DC port on the back to accept 24V dc. I had a power supply built to feed the 24V to avoid the internal power, but a simple step down works fine. It is not going to fit on every stand, and it weighs 61.73 pounds.

As Raul stated, the modern Technics are hard to beat. The SL-1300G is a very fine machine and it should fit the ascetics, but you will be hard pressed to find one for less than $3200. And based on the specs, I would be surprised if it could beat the GT2000.

Dave, Good to hear from you.  Lew

Dear @dgarretson  : I listened the Luxman  444 many years ago and not in my system so I don't have an opinion about other that Luxman was  not the realmanufacturer but only put together the parts sourced by Micro Seiki and Pioneer. I own the P350 and is avery fine TTand parts sourced by MS too.

Btw, the Yamaha GT was sourced by MS too.

Good that yo come back.

Regards,

R.

Lew, look forward to catching up with you personally in early 2026.  By that time I'll likely be in retirement someplace between Fredrick and Front Royal.

Raul, Always good to hear from you.  When listening to a TechDAS at shows I think of the Micro Seiki origin story that branches through some of the best analog.

Best,

Dave  

Still taking in all your comments and suggestions. I believe I have narrowed it down to the Denon DP80, or one several of the Technics models either mentioned in my original post, or that all of you have provided. Still have not ruled out a new Technics, but the DJ look still gives me pause. 

If that is your problem with the G series Technics, you ought to be able to get over it. It's just silly.

https://hifi-wiki.com/index.php/Technics_SL-1200MK4

MK4 was an adoption of verified by DJ's hard usage design for audiophiles, with adding very expensive titanium arm, RCA on bottom of arm, 78rpm option, and heavy mat. end of 90s that table was priced ~ 1200, which is approximately four grand today! Number of units released was very limited..

SL1200G/GAE is nice, but cost is x3 times of MK4..

The main issue in buying vintage electronics is reliability, aging major components in it, and expensive repairs.. there are not many techs left these day, who can help, unfortunately..

The G series is night and day better than any of the 1200 series and its numerical derivatives. This is opinion based on facts. Better (coreless) motor. Better more massive and damped plinth. Improved platter and tonearm. Much better electronic speed control. Technics “mistake” from a marketing point of view was making the early and later G series look so much alike. Yet I’d bet the G series sells very well for them.

So despite my reservations about the aesthetics of the newer Technics, The thought of performance coupled with a turnkey approach has its advantages. If I am able stretch what I believe will be my budget, there are new Technics SL 1200G's on several Japan based eBay sites. Obviously I would need to operate this through a step down transformer...are there any disadvantages to purchasing a unit from Japan and running it in this manner that I should be considerate of?

laaudionut, ls1200g power supply design covers 100..240V 50/60Hz AC, I haven’t found power board difference between diff markets targeted product, in service manual.