Vintage Japanese DD Consult and Suggestions Please

The G series is night and day better than any of the 1200 series and its numerical derivatives. This is opinion based on facts. Better (coreless) motor. Better more massive and damped plinth. Improved platter and tonearm. Much better electronic speed control. Technics “mistake” from a marketing point of view was making the early and later G series look so much alike. Yet I’d bet the G series sells very well for them.

If that is your problem with the G series Technics, you ought to be able to get over it. It's just silly.

Dave, Good to hear from you.  Lew

Pryso, It was my impression that the MN6082 was used in the MK3 and in many if not all of the original 1200 series TTs, and probably the SP15, as you say, but I am not sure either way about the MK2. I would have thought it was also used there but could be wrong. I think JP has left the building but not on the irreversible path taken by Elvis, fortunately.

Aha! I just did a quick search.  Apparently the MN6082 was only used in Technics TTs that have variable pitch. That would not include the Mk2 but does include the others.

westcoast, JP Jones is a professional in the field of electronics. (I don't know exactly his degree level; he could be an EE or a physicist.) Until recently, he ran a business (Fidelis Analog) dedicated to the care and feeding of Technics DDs.  It was my good fortune that he agreed to look at my "broken" Victor TT101, where he found a trivial but near invisible problem (a crack across a tracing in a PCB hiding under a blob of solder and causing a maddening intermittent speed problem) that eluded several other smart guys, and he fixed it. As you may know, he designed and built a PCB using discrete parts that replicates the function of the unobtainable chip that governs speed of the SP10 and lower level series of vintage Technics tables, and yet is small enough to directly replace the chip in the power supply (MN8042 is the chip designation, going only on my memory of the alphanumberic code). Therefore, he was able to test performance of the tables to a level and using methods that I don't completely understand. I bought my SP10 Mk3 in NOS condition, and I did not need to replace the chip, but I did it anyway, because JPs PCB outperforms the OEM chip out at the 4th or 5th decimal place where it probably does not matter much. So I take his comparative analysis of the 10R vs the 10 Mk3 seriously.  He owns both.

Tomic, yes the platter is both a virtue and a potential Achilles heel of the Denon DDs. (If anything should happen to damage the tape glued to the inside rim of the platter, I think it's curtains for the TT.)

Raul, I more or less agree with your sentiments, but the OP specifically asked about vintage Japanese DDs. Thus he’s receiving opinions about vintage Japanese DDs. As to the SP10 mk3 vs the SP10R, JP Jones owns both and conducted a meticulous comparison test, using measurements not “I like it”. He shared some data with me, showing no significant differences between the two.

JVC (Victor) QL7 incorporates their TT71 motor/chassis, which is their third from the top of the Victor commercial line, which was the TT101. Yes, I think it does use a coreless motor, which I like too, but the DP80 was Denon's top of the line commercial TT (excluding the DP100, etc, which were for studio use).  Its iron core motor was optimized by Denon for smooth running and very stable speed. Further, the Denon has the split platter which isolates the LP from bearing noise. I would not dismiss the DP80 compared to the QL7/TT71 just based on the coreless motor in the latter. I also own a TT101, and I do like it also. I cannot compare the TT101 to the DP80, because the Victor drives my Beveridge system (alternating with Lenco) whereas the Denon drives my Sound Lab system (alternating with SP10 Mk3 and Kenwood L07D).

I agree that the DK300 plinth is holding back the DP80 a bit. I use a custom made slate plinth. But the nicest plinth on the professional level is the PBN Audio version. It ain’t cheap however. What one could do with the DK300 is to brace it along the bottom with heavy pieces of aluminum and replace the armboard by all means with something stiffer and with more mass. Here is the PBN Audio plinth.

I happen to have a Triplanar mounted on my DP80 but I would not short change the DV505, which is one of two tonearms mounted on my Lenco.

Come on over, Tomic.  I am running a pair of Beveridge 2SWs in my second system.  Same size as the model 2 and still direct driven by the built in amplifiers but designed for higher SPLs than the 2, so they go down only to 80Hz and require woofer augmentation.  For that I use a pair of full size transmission line woofers that I myself built 50 years ago to match the specs published in Wireless World for a functional TL using the KEF B139 woofer.  A la the IMF Monitor speaker. I daresay that after 10 years, I have dialed in and stabilized the Beveridge direct-drive amplifiers.

I would seek a seller who is willing to provide a history of service and to guarantee that the DP80 is in perfect working condition. Second, bear in mind that most likely any DP80 you find will have been built for 100V AC supply.  That is zero problem here in the US. Just buy a 120V to 100V step down transformer of which there are many suitable ones on eBay.  50W capacity is more than sufficient.  I think I paid less than $100 for mine.  I actually have two such step down transformers; the Kenwood L07D also requires 100VAC input. Do not try to operate a 100V TT off our 120VAC mains without a step down.  That leads to burning up unobtainable chips inside.

Alex, the Pioneer Exclusive P3 is my great white whale. I’ve always wanted one. We visit Tokyo annually because our son lives there. I’ve never seen one in the flesh and for sale even in Tokyo. Even on Hifido. If you have an idea where I can find one, I’d appreciate it.

Meantime we completely agree on the excellence of the DP80.

Cost is one reason why I recommended a Denon DP75 or 80 instead of an SP10 Mk2 or other, and in this case I would additionally recommend to this OP that he purchase from a reliable source who is willing to guarantee operating condition and shows a history of prior service or restoration. In fact, I would check out PBN Audio, although the cost of one of their DP80s may be out of reach for the budget.

Lenco made belt drives at one point in its existence, just to say the Bogen may be a re-badged Lenco belt drive, or not. (I just cannot recall for sure.)

Mea culpa. See here.

The TTs on your list above are all belt driven types. In my opinion if you want to get closest to the idler drive sonics of the Garrard 301, direct drive is your best bet. Another option is Lenco, which I happen to believe can be made to sound as good or better than a 301 for less money. In my opinion also, the Lenco idler design is inherently mechanically quieter than that of the 301. Re the Denon, as far as I was ever able to determine, the DP75 is not different from the DP80 in any important way, and those two are the models worth seeking.

Chakster had a wealth of opinions that would not let facts stand in their way. But I miss him too and hope he’s ok.

I currently own and use four different Japanese DD turntables (Kenwood L07D, Technics SP10 Mk3, Victor TT101, and Denon DP80), and in the past i owned a few others (especially Technics SP10 Mk2 and Mk2A).  Since cost is an object, I would recommend the Denon DP80 as best bang for the buck. It has two Achilles heels. First, there is a chip that governs speed.  That chip is rare if not unobtainable, so make sure the sample you buy is working well. Push come to shove, I have a few spare chips that I bought several years ago and would part with one.  Most were built for 100V for use in Japan. It is my impression that the chip was damaged in many units used in the US due to running at 120V; it's just a guess. The DP80 also used some discrete transistors that are known to be problematic, but there are modern equivalents that work much better. Best to find a tech with some experience working on them.  Sadly, Bill Thalmann, who lived in my area and was in my opinion the best of the best, passed away a year or two ago.  You might contact his business, Music Technologies in Springfield, VA. Maybe they still have a guy for DD TTs. With any of these TTs, it is wise to have help. In my. opinion also, the SP15 is not in the same league with the others discussed here. I am not saying it is a bad unit, just not as good as the others mentioned, which are all among the best of that era.