Vintage Japanese DD Consult and Suggestions Please

Isn’t “GT5000” a reference to Yamaha’s latest TT (not vintage) which is belt driven? With respect, none of the TTs on your list is top drawer among vintage Japanese DD TTs. Here’s my list of the best, all of which are still worth north of $4000:

Kenwood L07D

Technics SP10 mk3

Pioneer Exclusive P3 and P3a

Sony PS-X9

Yamaha GT2000X

Denon DP100

and probably one or two others.

I used to collect Japanese direct drive tables but sold them all off to a vintage collector a few years ago.

JVC QL-y66f great sounding table with a very nice tonearm/wand combo.

Mitsubishi LT-5V great table for show and tell but a pain to set and keep tracking force accurate.

Sony PS-x75 very good table once I changed out the electrolytic capacitor tied to speed stability,

Yamaha PX-2 "Guns of Navarone" turntable

Two I had my sights on acquiring before I gave up the Japanese DD fetish:

Nakamichi Dragon

Yamaha GT-5000

Yes, a discerning ear would hear differences between 301 and DP80. The 301 is noisier. The DP80 would likely measure better in every way.

Well done. That is a great choice.

Hello again. First, I would like to extend my most sincere gratitude for all who have read and replied to this thread...the information was instrumental(some pun intended) in my due diligence and selection process. For the last month or so, I have been enjoying my Denon DP80 with the DK300 plinth, DA402 12" tonearm, and the modest Denon DL103 FL cartridge. I was able to find the piece, said for the cart, on a Canadian listing site, but the transaction and experience was far from enjoyable, unfortunately.

I will state that I do greatly miss my Garrard 301, but I am more than pleased with the looks and performance of the Denon. I know the audio purist and someone with a more discerning ear than I have would easily hear the differences, what is important to me is that it sounds sublime for the modest price that I paid. At some time I will explore different cartridges, and welcome any suggestions, at the moment I have found solace in my turntable transition.

Again, my many kind thanks!

Brian

laaudionut, ls1200g power supply design covers 100..240V 50/60Hz AC, I haven’t found power board difference between diff markets targeted product, in service manual. 

So despite my reservations about the aesthetics of the newer Technics, The thought of performance coupled with a turnkey approach has its advantages. If I am able stretch what I believe will be my budget, there are new Technics SL 1200G's on several Japan based eBay sites. Obviously I would need to operate this through a step down transformer...are there any disadvantages to purchasing a unit from Japan and running it in this manner that I should be considerate of?

The G series is night and day better than any of the 1200 series and its numerical derivatives. This is opinion based on facts. Better (coreless) motor. Better more massive and damped plinth. Improved platter and tonearm. Much better electronic speed control. Technics “mistake” from a marketing point of view was making the early and later G series look so much alike. Yet I’d bet the G series sells very well for them.

https://hifi-wiki.com/index.php/Technics_SL-1200MK4

MK4 was an adoption of verified by DJ's hard usage design for audiophiles, with adding very expensive titanium arm, RCA on bottom of arm, 78rpm option, and heavy mat. end of 90s that table was priced ~ 1200, which is approximately four grand today! Number of units released was very limited..

SL1200G/GAE is nice, but cost is x3 times of MK4..

The main issue in buying vintage electronics is reliability, aging major components in it, and expensive repairs.. there are not many techs left these day, who can help, unfortunately..

If that is your problem with the G series Technics, you ought to be able to get over it. It's just silly.

Still taking in all your comments and suggestions. I believe I have narrowed it down to the Denon DP80, or one several of the Technics models either mentioned in my original post, or that all of you have provided. Still have not ruled out a new Technics, but the DJ look still gives me pause. 

Lew, look forward to catching up with you personally in early 2026.  By that time I'll likely be in retirement someplace between Fredrick and Front Royal.

Raul, Always good to hear from you.  When listening to a TechDAS at shows I think of the Micro Seiki origin story that branches through some of the best analog.

Best,

Dave  

Dear @dgarretson  : I listened the Luxman  444 many years ago and not in my system so I don't have an opinion about other that Luxman was  not the realmanufacturer but only put together the parts sourced by Micro Seiki and Pioneer. I own the P350 and is avery fine TTand parts sourced by MS too.

Btw, the Yamaha GT was sourced by MS too.

Good that yo come back.

Regards,

R.

Dave, Good to hear from you.  Lew

+1 for the Yamaha GT 2000 (L, X). HIFIDO in Japan has them available now and then. And they go through all of the electronics, motor, bearings to assure it is in top form, then double box with injection foam. I have A/B'd with a very well regarded JVC QL-A75 from that same highest Japanese R and D era and the GT is more transparent with finer micro/macro detail. Most all are Japan 100V. But the GT2000 has a DC port on the back to accept 24V dc. I had a power supply built to feed the 24V to avoid the internal power, but a simple step down works fine. It is not going to fit on every stand, and it weighs 61.73 pounds.

As Raul stated, the modern Technics are hard to beat. The SL-1300G is a very fine machine and it should fit the ascetics, but you will be hard pressed to find one for less than $3200. And based on the specs, I would be surprised if it could beat the GT2000.

@laaudionut

I have a SP10 Mk 2, PD444, and LO7D and would add simply that all three are great choices.  Each will likely need to be re-capped if not already serviced.  All are satisfying in stock form, but will benefit with addition of modern footers and siting, re-lube, silicon nitride bearing, etc.

Overall the Luxman is probably the most satisfying in terms of reasonable cost, superb vintage esthetic, flexibility in adapting modern or vintage tonearms, and simplicity of maintenance/DIY speed adjustment as per factory service notes with a multimeter.  I found that its plinth design can be improved by substituting thick brass in place of the stock steel armboards.  For a further reduction in plinth resonance, I replaced the archaic stock RCA switch box attached to the bottom of the plinth with a solid wood subplinth that serves as a pedestal for a third arm base out front that accepts standard Micro Seiki cantilevered armboards.  All in all a great piece that is seldom discussed relative to other vintage DD.          

Pryso, It was my impression that the MN6082 was used in the MK3 and in many if not all of the original 1200 series TTs, and probably the SP15, as you say, but I am not sure either way about the MK2. I would have thought it was also used there but could be wrong. I think JP has left the building but not on the irreversible path taken by Elvis, fortunately.

Aha! I just did a quick search.  Apparently the MN6082 was only used in Technics TTs that have variable pitch. That would not include the Mk2 but does include the others.

lewm, JP may substantiate this but I believe his chip replacement is for the SP-10 Mk 3 and the SP-15.  It is not a replacement for any of the SP-10 Mk 2 series.

westcoast, JP Jones is a professional in the field of electronics. (I don't know exactly his degree level; he could be an EE or a physicist.) Until recently, he ran a business (Fidelis Analog) dedicated to the care and feeding of Technics DDs.  It was my good fortune that he agreed to look at my "broken" Victor TT101, where he found a trivial but near invisible problem (a crack across a tracing in a PCB hiding under a blob of solder and causing a maddening intermittent speed problem) that eluded several other smart guys, and he fixed it. As you may know, he designed and built a PCB using discrete parts that replicates the function of the unobtainable chip that governs speed of the SP10 and lower level series of vintage Technics tables, and yet is small enough to directly replace the chip in the power supply (MN8042 is the chip designation, going only on my memory of the alphanumberic code). Therefore, he was able to test performance of the tables to a level and using methods that I don't completely understand. I bought my SP10 Mk3 in NOS condition, and I did not need to replace the chip, but I did it anyway, because JPs PCB outperforms the OEM chip out at the 4th or 5th decimal place where it probably does not matter much. So I take his comparative analysis of the 10R vs the 10 Mk3 seriously.  He owns both.

Tomic, yes the platter is both a virtue and a potential Achilles heel of the Denon DDs. (If anything should happen to damage the tape glued to the inside rim of the platter, I think it's curtains for the TT.)

@alexv Thanks for the starting formula.  i was an indentured servant in a pattern shop, i am fluent in adjusting for shrinkage…

The armboards on my dual arm plinth are 30 mm Aero grade hardened / anodized aluminum. in the well on the plinth i’ve added Kinetic sand. I’ve got a few wood armboard in work including Ebony root and purpleheart and Panzerholtz. i have a lot of respect for Franz as i run his imo lovely sounding CAR-40.

@lewm i believe a good deal of the magic of the big Denon are due the split platter and the magnetic pulse speed control system on the inside rim of the platter. Glad you mentioned platter. I should probably get an SP-10 of some ilk and muck about with that…

best to all in music

@lewm +1 “JP Jones owns both and conducted a meticulous comparison test, using measurements not “I like it”. He shared some data with me, showing no significant differences between the two."

I hear very small, both direction, mostly record and cartridge driven difference, between: SL1200MK4/SL1200GAE/SL1000MK2/SP10R..

SP10R with EPA100MK2 arm wins clearly only on excellent quality records.. for so-so records, there is no difference! as of measurements, it’s the same story, precise/low-noise-dist test vinyls is hard to find, mostly I have are lower quality than best music vinyls..

Raul, I more or less agree with your sentiments, but the OP specifically asked about vintage Japanese DDs. Thus he’s receiving opinions about vintage Japanese DDs. As to the SP10 mk3 vs the SP10R, JP Jones owns both and conducted a meticulous comparison test, using measurements not “I like it”. He shared some data with me, showing no significant differences between the two.

I love my JVC QLY66F.  I bought it a few years ago.  At first, I thought it was horrible.  It howled like a banshee at higher volumes.  I replaced the feet and stuffed as much plasticlay as I could inside the plinth and now it sounds and looks beautiful.  It was my main table for some time and is what I've been using with a Denon DL-301 MK2 for the last two years or so to play grade all of my records.  I've probably played well over 2,000 records on it now and am on my second DL-301 MK2.  When it was in my main system I put some much better carts on it and it responded well to those.  It has great drive and dynamics.

Dear @laaudionut   : I own/owned the Denon 80/75 several Technics SP10 and JVC.

You ask for better sound but TT per sé must has not any sound, it will be " dead silence ".

Now, the Today Technics motor design is a better design that any of its vintage brothers due that the motor drive is acoreless one that not even the SP10MK3 had.

I can't understand wwhy you are looking for vintage DD  where you don't have any warranty that be in perfect operation condition and where is really a " pain in the ass " fix any trouble on it when a new today Technics  IMHO is a way better option.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

@laaudionut, "resembling DJ decks, which is not my preferred look, however. "

Yes, that is unfortunate and has caused lots of confusion for those looking at Technics products.  In fact the original SL-1200 was introduced in 1975 as a home audio product.  Through the years upgraded versions were introduced until the time where CDs severely impacted sales.  I've read Technics considered discontinuing that model, except sales suddenly increased because it was discovered by DJs which created a new market.  As a result the SL-1200 family became known informally as DJ tables due to their dominance in that field.  Now many consider it something designed for DJs rather than different purposed home audio applications.

So I considered it very unfortunate when Technics introduced the newly revised SL-1000/SP-10/SL-1200GAE a few years ago that they didn't redesign the overall appearance to differentiate it more from the older AL-1200 series.  That also seemed to drag along the DJ connotations, even while a much different design.

I overcame my own "look" prejudices more than a year ago and bought a SL-1200G.  I'm very pleased with the build and performance.

JVC (Victor) QL7 incorporates their TT71 motor/chassis, which is their third from the top of the Victor commercial line, which was the TT101. Yes, I think it does use a coreless motor, which I like too, but the DP80 was Denon's top of the line commercial TT (excluding the DP100, etc, which were for studio use).  Its iron core motor was optimized by Denon for smooth running and very stable speed. Further, the Denon has the split platter which isolates the LP from bearing noise. I would not dismiss the DP80 compared to the QL7/TT71 just based on the coreless motor in the latter. I also own a TT101, and I do like it also. I cannot compare the TT101 to the DP80, because the Victor drives my Beveridge system (alternating with Lenco) whereas the Denon drives my Sound Lab system (alternating with SP10 Mk3 and Kenwood L07D).

"why not buy a new Technics or comparable unit” ..because of x2/x3/x4 price vs well performing/built vintage? Also, some fellow audiophiles want to spend some time building systems, aka hobby. 

Armboard with epoxy/bentonite will be too damped.. Frank Kuzma told me that even polycarnonate amboard would suck out LF from his arms.  You can try epoxy/steel balls mixture which would be easier to work with and you should be able to increase loading as balls have much lower surface area than bentonite.

I used polyester epoxy with 1% catalyst and 60/40 bentonite/epoxy  ratio. To get an optimal ratio you should cast small samples and watch for shrinkage, carcks and curing. Once you find  the otimal range it is very easy to cast. 

What do you use on your Technics? Ulike other Denon plinths Dk300 is made from engineerd wood and it is quite stiif. I've tryed to make an armboard  out of Al as that time I had only table saw and it did not make much difference to my ears. Carbon steel or bronze would be probably better options.

PbN built DP-80 motors / incredible plinths for Lyra… as in Lyra Japan. Those are formidable.. I would say before i upgraded my Triplaner to the CF armwand , etc, especially silver wire the 505 was in many ways the equal… nits… 

Ba know I. The day I had my choice of Technics or JVC tables and settled on the JVC QL-7. Hands down better tonearm, better motor technology. Also better looking. A Denon DP-80 seemed kina spendy, and there was no dealer within 300 miles. Lots of miles and turntables later, I've got a VPI Prime Scout. It's the only one I thought was the equal of that JVC. I'd buy another in heartbeat if I found one. The biggest difference was in the tonearms. The JVC was simply better in no small part because it was significantly longer and more adjustable. Rumor it was the table used to develop the Shibata stylus whose thin profile made it subject to 'chattering ' on inner groves from tracing error when mounted in the standard 9" (229 mm) tonearm. That geometry was true then, true today. 

I agree that the DK300 plinth is holding back the DP80 a bit. I use a custom made slate plinth. But the nicest plinth on the professional level is the PBN Audio version. It ain’t cheap however. What one could do with the DK300 is to brace it along the bottom with heavy pieces of aluminum and replace the armboard by all means with something stiffer and with more mass. Here is the PBN Audio plinth.

I happen to have a Triplanar mounted on my DP80 but I would not short change the DV505, which is one of two tonearms mounted on my Lenco.

Understand. What ratio are you using and resin family ? i might cast a trial armboard … fun. The Triplaner is significantly better than the 505 and should be… the 505 is an amazing headshell arm imo… 

Best to you in music

@tomic601 This is why I suggested DIY epoxy bentonite plinth. Epoxy+bentonite has much higher damping ratio than treated wood of DK300. 

Does triplanar sound much better than DV505?

@llg98ljk This is certainly a consideration as well. Technics appears to offer so many turntables in their current lineup that it is a bit overwhelming. Most resembling DJ decks, which is not my preferred look, however. 

Instead of all the fretting and worrying about parts availability and service on vintage, why not buy a new Technics or comparable unit. I tend to favor Technics as they have proven to know a thing or two about turntable building.

Well within your budget is the Technics SL-1200GR. Available from numerous online sellers for $2200 delivered (plus tax). No fuss. no bother and will likely last practically forever, given the history of the previous 1200 series.

@westcoastaudiophile I appreciate your contribution to the thread and will consider all suggestions as I perform my own due diligence and cull down my list.

@tomic601 Agreed! Far too many times as late have I seen posts on this forum go off the rails and off subject and devolve into some grade school behaviors. My only concern is that this conversation hasn't piqued the interest to the point where gear that I might consider is quickly taken off the market.

Nice to see the vintage Japan DD fans weighing in here….this IMO is what Agon is for….

@lewm Ha…i knew you and i shared that. I worked at a Beveridge dealer during the end of the golden years. We carried KEF and i’m definitely a fan of the B-139 in Cantata an IMF alignments..i expect your TL is fantastic. I also knew RM and hold everything he touched in high regard. i hope to be back in SE PA for a reunion in June… will yell if that planetary alignment happens ! best in music to you.

@laaudionut from your list I would recommend to look at sl1000mk2. Without tonearm you may find one in good shape, with clear dustcover, fitting into your budget. There are plenty relatively cheap arms’ easily adoptable to it’s original plinth. Advantage of this approach is excellent reliability+performance of SL100MK2 deck! 

Smaller (similar to DP80 setups) excellent ’n’ "audiophile rated” DD oldie deck is Technics SL1200MK4, which definitely will be in your budget range. Advantage of that deck is in titanium tonearm, which I think is still one of the best for SL1200 platform. MK4 is capable 78/45/33rpm speed, and nice RCA connectors on the tonearm base helping to check phono cables.. MK4 was sold only in Japan, and you may need small step-down transformer (such as inexpensive TP-811 japan made one), or replacing original power transformer with any SL1200MK2/3/5 US 117V transformer (obtainable). 

Come on over, Tomic.  I am running a pair of Beveridge 2SWs in my second system.  Same size as the model 2 and still direct driven by the built in amplifiers but designed for higher SPLs than the 2, so they go down only to 80Hz and require woofer augmentation.  For that I use a pair of full size transmission line woofers that I myself built 50 years ago to match the specs published in Wireless World for a functional TL using the KEF B139 woofer.  A la the IMF Monitor speaker. I daresay that after 10 years, I have dialed in and stabilized the Beveridge direct-drive amplifiers.

@lewm ah we all have a white whale… mine is the Big Beveridge….  on a private pirate audio board my moniker is

callmeIshmael

ha…

@alexv has the formula and order correct but depending on room and system bandwidth / SPL ( the op has at present 2x JL subs ) i would add isolation. my plinth is 70# on a 300# rack, speakers in room flat to 20 and spring isolation require d at moderate spl. 90 db peaks. i’ve got 4 arms to choose from on the DP-75 tables, Triplaner Ultimate, Dynavector DV-505, Ortofon 309 Japan geometry 12”, and Infinity Black Widow. Does OP have a target cartridge in mind to steer our inputs ..?

i don’t necessarily agree w shop cosmetics… some parts are as Lew said unobtainable.. PbN charges $75 for platter and about $700 for recap and chip preservation wizardry. I know Peter and always include some beer $$$… hence my fuzziness on pricing.

Yes Japan is supercool. used to get there for work and visit my Sensei… Sounds to me like a sorted or high functioning TT from @alexv is a prudent course…

@laaudionut  When it comes to turntable SQ it depends on 1)cart, 2) tonerm, 3) motor, 4) plinth. 

I've seen a few comparisons when people did it right and matched all components. You can make an educated guess by comparing published specs.

Below it the link to the table that I made a while ago with the spec comparsison of some DD motors that you are considering. 

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/technics-sp-10-mk-ii-and-denon-dp-80-vs-yamaha-gt-2000-kenwood-kp1100.985266/

@laaudionut In Japan they often mate DP75&80 with SME or SAEC and from my experience both are decent choices. There are other choices and it also depends on what cartrifges you have or planning to use. I like FR arms but they have resonance issues so they need some modifictions. PM me and we will talk.

I would seek a seller who is willing to provide a history of service and to guarantee that the DP80 is in perfect working condition. Second, bear in mind that most likely any DP80 you find will have been built for 100V AC supply.  That is zero problem here in the US. Just buy a 120V to 100V step down transformer of which there are many suitable ones on eBay.  50W capacity is more than sufficient.  I think I paid less than $100 for mine.  I actually have two such step down transformers; the Kenwood L07D also requires 100VAC input. Do not try to operate a 100V TT off our 120VAC mains without a step down.  That leads to burning up unobtainable chips inside.

Lewm, I used to travel to Japan for work at least twice a year and I had a customer in Kyoto (I don’t think it could get better than that :) who was an audiophile and he introduced me to a to a friend, used equipment dealer/collector in the area. I was offered P3 at least on 3 occasions and I pulled the  plug twice, unfortunately the  first  time UPS totally trashed it so the second time I took it with me on the plane. Unfortunately, my employer exited electronics business and it was not done gracefully so I'm no longer in contact with these guys. I had some other contacts so I will try to find them and PM to you.  When I was in Japan after Covid in 2023 I did only vinyl shopping in Tokyo  and it was not the same: the selection and the quality went down big time. It probably did not help that it was August, but I did vinyl shopping in summer before.

One thing that I actually never saw in Japan was L07D. One day we should do a shoot out between your L07D  and  P3 as I think we live within 2 hour drive.

@tomic601 Thank you for the kind sentiments regarding my system. However, it is going through a bit of a metamorphosis at the moment, and I am hoping to retain as much of its sonic bliss.

@timlub The SP 10 MKII is certainly in play...the MKIII is out of my budget at the moment. Micro Seiki DD8's are available out of Japan for less than $1K...what are your thoughts on the MS DD 100 listed here domestically?

@billstevenson You are likely correct, but fussing is part of our esoteric hobby.

@alexv I have seen a few DP 80's listed on eBay/Japan that look like good candidates, and there is a gentleman out of Ontario, Canada that has some listed as well. Is there a particular tonearm, Denon or otherwise (SME for one), that are great pairings for this table? I will likely reach out to you privately to discuss matters further, if you are not opposed. 

Alex, the Pioneer Exclusive P3 is my great white whale. I’ve always wanted one. We visit Tokyo annually because our son lives there. I’ve never seen one in the flesh and for sale even in Tokyo. Even on Hifido. If you have an idea where I can find one, I’d appreciate it.

Meantime we completely agree on the excellence of the DP80.

At $2500 or less, from your list, I would go for the SP10 MKII. Very enjoyable table. If it were me, these days I think I'd just chase a Micro Seiki DD8 in the best shape that I could find. That's maybe $800 and drop a great cartridge on it. This table performs excellent at its price.