Very Bad purchase from upscale audio Acoustic Zen Adagio
This was not my first purchase from Kevin Deal at Upscale audio. I am a entry level audiophile. My PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP and Dialogue Premium Preamplifier have given many hours of enjoyment. I have purchased well over 1K in tubes from Kevin. This purchase took me over the 10K mark with Upscale Audio. I am not a rookie to audio or tube amplification. I have had a successful tube amp repair and design shop since 1993. My concern. Here is the description of the Acoustic Zen Adagio from Upscale audio's website.
This pair of Adagio's from our demo room are also the last pair of
Adagio's in our inventory. The Adagio is such a sweet sounding speaker
and is perfect for those who really like to get inside the music. The
pair we have are in the stunning Figure Red wood finish. The baffle
style is the original (and better sounding) non-tapered baffle, as
pictured. Price $2499.00 plus shipping Ok. I called Kevin and talked to him on the phone. I asked him if he would entertain an offer. I told him that I had seen the same speakers offered on Audiogon and Audioasylum for considerably less. He said I am a retail store and back my products. He also said this and I quote " Those people are just guys in their underwear scratching their asses." I am a store. I trusted the description of the speakers and I trusted Kevin. Total price. $2839. $2499.00 plus $340.00 shipping to NC. The speakers arrived and I couldn't wait to unpack them and hook them up. The packing was great. My anticipation was greater. Left speaker Tweeter DOA. The same speaker had a shameful reject finish. The lacquer was so clouded you can hardly see the wood figure. The back of the speaker was loaded with black specks under the lacquer. These speakers are seconds, rejects. I sent Kevin Deal 4 emails referring to the fact that this really was a bad deal. It has been 3 days and no response. On the other hand Robert Lee ( Owner of Acoustic Zen) responded immediately to my email asking for help with the DOA Tweeter. I sent it off next day air to him and today responded that it is on it's way back to me. Somehow Kevin Deal's Train ran off the tracks so don't ask for your money back
I have dealt with Kevin for over 20 years. NOS tubes to High end speakers and never have I been dissatisfied. In fact, on my last transaction he delivered my very expensive gear double boxed and with free tweak merchandise. Just thought I should balance the conversation a bit.
audiozen, That may be true for tubes, but they are jerks otherwise. They don't say on their website that their showroom is by appointment only, and when I called them on it, they were rude, and reported me to Audiogon (whatever that means).
I neglected to mention for tube buff's that had bad experiences with Kevin, you would be better off getting your tubes from US Tube Audio In Scottsdale, AZ. Call them and speak to Paul. First class service. Been in business for forty one years.
Early last year I decided to buy a used Rega Mira3 integrated and Upscale had one listed for $1100.00 but did not list it as new or used. I assumed it was new since they were selling used online between $600.00 and $800.00 and sold new for $1600.00. I sent an email to Upscale to confirm new or used, and if used, send me pics of the unit. No reply. I called three days later and a staff member confirmed it was used but could not send me pics since it was boxed and sealed and ready for shipping. What a load of bull. I lucked out a week later since one popped up on Gon for $525.00 from Long Beach in perfect condition and I bought it with no regrets. Kevin is the very type of "Businessman" in High End Audio I always advise member's to avoid in my threads. Just in it for the money. I checked out Kevins' factory tour on Youtube and it starts out showing off his Porsche in the parking lot before going into his warehouse. That says it all.
Thanks for saying so hifiman, I believe it's important for customers to be honest about dealer experiences good or bad. HWDsound is fantastastic, Larry and son Marcus spent a couple of hours demoing a trade in table for me. They allowed me to play my table and then swapped my cart to the table that I was interested in. I didn't feel pressured by them and they worked with me on the price.
I bought from upscale because of their rep of being the place to go for the best tubes with garunteed quality. If I had read responses like these I would never have done so. If this thread can at the very least cause potential customers to Way the pros and cons then I think that's a good thing.
I think the best result would be a total sea change in the way upscale does business but I'll not hold my breath.
@joegator81 I must say Mr. Deal is one polarizing dude! There have been a few threads about him and from my observations it seems like you love him or hate him.
It does sound highly improbable that you would break two tubes sent from the same source unless the tubes' structural integrity was in question.
Way too iffy for me to do business with him. Sorry you got the short end of that stick.
I'll bump this just because Uncle Kevin deserves all the bad press he can get. Sent me two pairs of bad tubes, blamed me for installing them too forcefully (b.s. I've never broken a tube during installation and I do it twice with his tubes?), says he won't send a third pair because they are too precious. He's a condescending prick. It's obvious from the level of anger that these aren't isolated outliers, this guy seriously goes out of his way to be an asshole.
Some questions: 1. Didn't Agon used to have a "Disputes" forum? 2. Did the OP ever open up an official Agon dispute? 3. If the OP used Paypal, did he ever open up a Paypal dispute? 4. Opinions on Mr. Deal aside (I've dealt with him twice and he struck me as a brusque but straightforward guy), I don't see why this very public dispute was allowed to progress as far as it did by the Agon staff. There've been a lot of serious accusations and labels thrown around.
For retailers trying to defend Mr. Deal. I disagree on two grounds.
1. It's crystal clear to anyone with functioning eyes that there's a significant difference between speaker A & B. As the purchaser stated, the cabinets are not the same color or quality of finish. These were demo models, previously opened by the retailer. It's hard to fathom Mr. Deal or other staff member didn't see the disparity in these two speakers. It's the responsibility of the retailer to send such flawed merchandise back to the manufacturer upon detection, before trying to pawn them off to a customer. 2. Why ship a speaker with a dead Tweeter? The speakers were already out on the floor, so it would take all of 10-15 minutes to plug them into a running sound system to ensure they functioned correctly.
This is a simple case of a snake oil salesman trying to pass along a flawed pair of speakers. I would have nailed this guy to the wall.
Users and lovers of vintage tubes often don't think of RAM Tubes, but Roger Modjeski not only has them, but tests (200 readings per tube, via an Apple computer with RM-designed softwear)), grades (A, SA, B, C, etc., as well providing exact test number specs) and matches them (pairs, quads, octets) for every known factor----gain/transconductance, bias current, noise, microphonics, you name it. He also selects and matches sets for specific amplifiers, providing them for CAT, Quicksilver, Conrad-Johnson, Atma-Sphere, and of course his own Music Reference. My first choice.
Positive/negative reviews are a god thing to post. I think we tend to forget that there are "flakes" in our hobby and the general Audio industry (unfortunately).
I have dealt with this company purchasing over 800 dollars worth of Tubes. Few came back as noisy and microphonic. I never went back to them. Lost my money bite the bullet and moved on. Regardless of the raving reviewers I apparently did not have a good product in the end. I never ended up using the tubes either.
I've made three separate purchases from Kevin. All good.
The first was a Prima Luna Dialogue HP. I sent an email asking a question about it and he called me the next day. We talked and I bought the amp. It arrived a few days later and I found that when I installed it in my system, one channel was dead.
I called him and he talked me through a number of ways to test it. It was still dead. The replacement was shipped out before I had even packed up the malfunctioning unit.
Stellar service.
I called him again about some speaker cables. He made a recommendation, the cables arrived and were just what I hoped they would be.
Stellar service.
The third time I bought a DAC. Same story.
Stellar service.
I'm kicking around changing out my speakers and he's first on the list to call.
I've obviously had good experiences with him and will absolutely do business with him again.
rbogartr...i am happy for you and if you are happy with the outcome, enjoy and happy listening! I am the first person to say, you address the problem and we all stand by you for what you believe in.
For one thing; whether it was a bad or good experiences that came out from UA, for sure your next purchase from them will make you think twice. Trust me! I dealt with Mr. Balded RedNeck AssWipe before, I live in S. Cali, locally 15 miles away from his home business. Never again, would spend my money on Mr. BRA!
The whole thing’s a bit of a Turkey, and it’s all Greek to me. You’d have to visit an oracle -or at least fall down into a Big Sleep near one at a cliffside holiday inn- in order to navigate these scenarios.
I had a very bad experience with an Audiogon seller a few years back. I purchased an Audio Research CA50 integrated amp. Unfortunately for me, if they had only auditioned it properly over a week before putting it up for sale, they would have noticed a very loud random popping noise. I did a little research and found out it may have been a defective power supply issue overheating the tubes. In fact, one of the tubes had overheated so badly that it melted the hard rubber tube ring around it! I’m not going to name the dealer, but I’ll never buy anything from them again, even though their Audiogon feedback is stellar. I could not convince him to take it back. I subsequently sold it at a loss. It was just my bad luck, I guess. BTW, when I sold it I FULLY DISCLOSED all of the the issues with the unit. That is all any of us want when we buy used gear.
yikes!!! after re-reading my last post I sound like a communitarian. My bad. Thanks cleeds and czarivey! I stand corrected on that post. By all means, everyone involved in this discussion should decide for themselves about their feelings on the Upscale Audio issue. It is the American way.
@knghifi , Good point, Discogs have an excellent policy for sellers that can dispute and remove negative feedback from seller's profile that had been placed without resolving issue first.
Agree with @cleeds -- this is where you can use freedom of choice to its full potential: rare, medium-rare, medium, well done, half-pound, 3/4 pound, pound or even kilo, Technics, Rega, Pioneer, Vandersteen etc...
Otherwise in terms of First Amendment, there should be correction: Freedom of Authorized Choice of...
The issue has been resolved. Kevin again offered to provide a shipping label and pay for the return of the speakers. He also said he would refund every penny I paid. He offered a $300.00 refund if I wanted it instead. I chose not to pack up the speakers and send them back. Kevin is providing the $300.00 credit. I expressed my regret for taking this issue to this forum before exhausting all other avenues. Robert Lee returned the tweeter with some silver solder, and the owner's manual. I installed it and the speakers sound great.
@miko71, if this was an isolated case I would tend to agree with you, but reading through the entire thread here and on AA, this appears not to be the case.
Personal issues does not absolve besmirching a business. It's clear that Kevin has offered to make it right. I find the OP's characterization of Upscale Audio without merit.
Nicely put Tim. Many fellow 'philes feel the same and offer our condolences to rbogartr during such a difficult time. Perhaps we all need to tell our wives how much we love them before our next listen.....and maybe then put this thread to rest.
Previously I had jumped through this thread reading comments here and there..... I just went through and read the entire thread and found where rbogartr posted on the very first page that this was too stressful for him because he recently lost his wife....He lost $500, but was still looking forward to getting the replacement tweeters and enjoying his speakers.... I'm sorry that I missed that portion rbogartr and am truly sorry for your loss... I can't imagine losing my wife.... I do want to encourage you to still contact Kevin and at least take the $300 refund that he offered. I can see you not wanting to deal with it, but it appears mistake or not that the cabinet issue was not exposed. You never know, he just may want to make it right and it would be better for all.... good luck, I hope that you have family and friends around you in this tough time.... Tim
So you spread this "bad deal" all over the 'net without even trying to resolve the problem? I've bought tubes from Kevin and he's always treated me right. Wow.. I feel sorry for your next victim...
Rbogartr, One hundred and forty one (141) Audiogon members have made comments and suggestions regarding the tweeter and finish problems with your Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers. It was an amazing amount of useful information that I hope you found useful.
In summary, I believe the major suggestions included a cash refund, speaker refurnishing or return the speakers to the retailer.
Have you decided what you are going to do? Please let us know.
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