Upgrade to McIntosh

Get separates.    You will thank me later.   

The C-8 is a great value in the mcintosh line. You can also add the dac 2 which will give you arc and digital inputs. Last it sounds fantastic.

Your local dealer might let you demo them in your home before purchase. 

I have some Sonus Faber Concertos that were linked to a McIntosh C220 along with a MC7270.  Sounds wonderful.  Did the same and swapped the MC7270 for a Audio Research VS55.  I personally liked the tube sound much more.  Did the swap with a Threshold Cas2, and while the McIntosh in so many ways blew the older cas2 away, I thought the cas2 was more musically pleasant.  The Audio Research was the overall winner for me.  That said, I would go with the separates as recommended by  @oddiofyl.  This will leave your options more open.  It can be amazing the difference of sound when you start amp rolling. 

Thank you guys for all the replies! This has been a disscussion in the forum before. Tube in the input + SS output power amp vs Tube in the input + tube power amp.

I was wondering if the MC275 would lack solid,tight and controlled bass due to its all-tube design(tube output) at different volumes?

@wolfgangamadeusaudiophiliac 

I have a C2700 feeding a pair of MC611s. To my ears, it sounds like a 600W tube system with the ability to power anything out there. I love the idea of a tube preamp and SS amp. It gives you the best of both worlds.

One year ago I went with the MA12000. I believe that separates and great interconnects will better this. Once you are in the $1500 range you can better  the DAC2. I gave up separates for the convenience of the all in one, but soon replaced both DAC and phono section.

@vonhelmholtz 

+1

I was going to recommend that as an option to the OP. I still am gobsmacked by the quality of sound produced by the DA2 module, though. I also have a separate DAC, and its cost is roughly 15X the cost of the DA2; it is glorious, but not 15X!

A friend has the MC275, C22, Linn Sondek driving Sonus Faber Cremonas. It sounds truly wonderful. And there is nothing lacking or wrong with the bass.

I have Vandersteen Model 5s and ARC tubes for power.

It's all up to your taste and your room. Good luck!

I have always liked McIntosh and have had McIntosh solid state Integrated amps. I have never been a tube guy. Not necessarily because I thought solid state was better but I didn’t have the opportunity to demo separate tube preamp and amp nor the funds or space, and was concerned about the power output of tube amps.  I recently traded in my older MA 6900 for the MA352.  I was thinking that a tube preamp section was better than a ss one and then the ss power section would give me plenty of power. Plus, I have always liked the equalization knobs on McIntosh equipment.  I have been happy with it but never demoed the tube setup.  I don’t know if my aging ears could discern enough improved SQ to make the extra expense. I checked out the 225 and the C8 online. The 225 is highly favored and C8 seems to have plenty of power.  So the combo looks pretty good and I would go with the recommendations of the other commentators here with experience with tubes.

I moved from a McIntosh solid state multi-channel amp to a 275 for the front L and R speakers (Klipsch La Scala's).  The bass was MUCH better, in every way, with the 275.  I was quite pleasantly surprised!

I don’t think you can go wrong.

1. Room size - take into consideration. Could the C8 + MC275 maybe be more than you need?

2. I have not heard your Sonus bookshelf speakers but do they need that much (C8 + MC275) to drive them?

3. I have the McIntosh MA352 (driving Revel F328Be speakers) and have never been happier. While I might change other components, the MA352 & Revels are the last amp / speaker setup.

Good luck!

Not really an apples to apples comparison. The MA352 is a hybrid integrated. Tube preamp, solid-state power amp. The MC275 is a true tube amp and probably more closer to the McIntosh sound than the MA352. I owned an MA352 for a while. Wasn’t crazy about it. Found it a bit harsh in the midrange and lacking top end detail. I ended up replacing it with McIntosh separates. If you demoed the MC275 and fell in love with it, you will not likely be satisfied with the MA352.

There are many better quality products then McIntosh.

I used to sell them before they sold out to a Asian company 

and some of their products now made in China which is sad .

nice looking meters though . It’s whst inside for parts quality that count most .

for a tube amp Ayon is much better in every respect ,the transformers and chokes 

are the heart of any good tube setup Ayonuse world class Lundahl 

McIntosh nothing special . And inside Ayon uses Mundorf ,Mc maybe wima still.

Ayon machined cases , this is one very good example  sadly McIntosh  is way overpriced for what they provide do your homework. The mc275 is very respectable 

but there are much better out there I just mentioned a few items .

Trust your ears. 
 

If you like it - that’s what matters. I’ve owned a C2600 and MC 302 with Sonus faber Olympica Nova Vs. 
 

Mc stuff has a strong secondary market. 

If you’re unsure experiment - Rogue makes some excellent hybrid and tube stuff for a great value  

 

I love the MC275 it’s a workhorse and a tank! I wouldn’t pair it with a Mac pre however as the sound is on the dark side I much prefer a CJ like a ET5 is a steal used for the $ and hard to beat. Also tho are you doing the MC275 because it will be on almost all the time or ? As way better soundstage with a CJ amp also but not made to run 8days a week like the MAC. I’m closing do separates but not mono blocks imho I’m very happy with my VTLS200 (another versatile well priced used amp🌟 but if you have efficient speakers and love the MC275 go with it my Uncle loves his and I do to for what it does it’s truly a gem

Ayon IS great stuff, but not always easy to find or contend with receiving those beasts on a pallet.  I too have an MA12000, but find it more than awesome in my setup.  Both units are beautiful in their own way and a joy to be around.

Even the McIntosh SS amps are warm sounding. If I ever go back to tubes, it will be only in the preamp section, I never got tight bass with tubes.

Check out the new McIntosh gear, they are hybrids with tubes for midrange/tweeter and large SS for woofers in 1 chassis. 
As for a built in dac, these are always a compromise over a separate dac. I used to have the McIntosh c47 preamp with phono and dac. I played this dac for 5 minutes and never went back to it, my standalone psa ds sr dac sounded much better.

FWIW, MC275 has a very low output impedance for a tube amp, so its bass is plenty tight, so much so that some tube aficionados don’t consider it “tubey” enough!  That said, you may want to look into a VTL ST150 and TL2.5i for a comparison if you can find them. Very high quality and great sound that might surprise you.

I auditioned the Olympus Nova V with the MA12000 and it sounded quite musical with a great soundstage. In the end I went with Wilson because I thought that the Wilsons were less likely to be knocked over. It is easy to find a dealer that represents McIntosh and Sonus Farber. I wanted the McIntosh resale value, but I know that they carried other amplifiers that would have improved upon the MA12000. You best A/B Sonus Farber with the equipment you are considering vs buying based upon our suggestions .

Mc275 is a nice amp! Not sure how many watts you need. McIntosh mc30 monoblocks are nice or marantz 8b. 

I have owned the Ma275, Ma252, and Ma352.... If I were considering sound and price, I would buy the Ma252 but if I didn't care that much about price then I would buy the Ma352. Don't get me wrong they all sound really good and you can't go wrong with any of them.

@audioman58 

 

McIntosh is producing product in China?

Which models are being made there?

I agree with separates.  Gives you wiggle room down the road. I currently have a MC2105 paired with an Odyssey Candela tube preamp, and Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M's. Sounds really great. My room is 11x20 and the little 2105 rocks it. 

I think you’ll be very happy with your mc275. In my vintage system I have an mx110z with two mc30s driving Sonus Faber Venere S speakers and the sound is wonderful. My main is a c2300 with an mc500 driving Tannoy Churchill’s and I couldn’t be happier. Go with separates and you’ll have more flexibility in the future should you want to upgrade. 

You cannot go wrong with McIntosh separates. Ignore all the ridiculous naysayers on this site that claim otherwise or who make up rumors they cannot defend. I have a C2700 with the DA2 module feeding into two MC275s for my LaScala speakers. It sounds fantastic for everything I play on my system, and I play almost ever genre of music out there. The bass with the MC275s are great. You do not need a SS amp for good bass. However, if you really desire that deep heavy bass, get a subwoofer to supplement. 

Vintage is the way to go! Marantz tube gear is great! mc30 and mc225 are my favorite Mac amps. I’m tinkering with HK citation 1 and 2 sound really good too! 
 

@audioman58 I’m not surprised! I don’t like how McIntosh uses circuit boards in mc275. That type of money should be point to point. They must get parts from China because most manufactures do. Assembled in the us. 
 

glowing green leds under the tube are kinda silly. My wife didn’t like that at all. Happy wife happy life lol
 

overpriced, McIntosh vintage gear sounds good. Mx110, mc30 mc225 mc240. Not my favorite can’t beat it if you get a good price for it.  

@perkri 

I don't think any of the McIntosh amps preamps power conditioners receivers cd/sacd players are made in China. It is only their small powered speakers and some speciality items. 

McIntosh has been having their hybrids made in China and  then reinspected in the U.S and  some amps That Don’t have the autoformers .  It’s now more about business and $$ profit  the original owners were Audiophiles 

now I believe S Korea owned .

My two cents: My instincts are to go with the separates in this case and, for that matter, in most cases, in general. However, either of these 2 power sources would me more than adequate for the speakers involved. I haven't heard the MA352. However, a friend and I spent approximately 4 to 5 hours of contiguous, concentrated, serious seat-time with the MC275, critically listening to several pairs of tower speakers I was in the market for at the time. I can't recall what pre-amp was being used but it was a MAC. There is no question, IMHO, that this is an outstanding sounding amp. I would expect that the MA352 would be just as impressive with the speakers involved. In the OP's position, I would plan to schedule some serious seat time A/B'ing both power sources and insist upon doing this with the speakers involved (e.g.  not something similar).

You guys rock! priceless input from all of you.

I was wondering if the general consensus about the ideal setup is tube preamp+solid state power amp, among Audiophiles, for reaching a warm,tuby sound without sacrificing controlled,tight and fast bass? Bu the lack of bass can always be compensated by a pair of subwoofers when running tube power amps?

On the other hand , a combo like C8/C22 tube pre and MC275 tube power amp seems to make many happy. I like listening music loud. I am eclectic.I love the 80s like Alphaville,Depeche Mode. I also listen to Jazz,Blues and Classic.

If only I could hear the MA352 tube pre+power amp hybrid. They dont have it where I am located at. @bjp9738 mentioned they found it a bit harsh in the midrange and lacking top end detail.

Should I hang up on the notion of tube pre+ SS power ?

 

 

All Mac. amps are U.S. hand made in Binghamton,N.Y. Parts are probably made in china and places around the world. But thats with every stereo manufacturer. As for your post . I'm using MC70 tube preamp thats a reintroduced MC22. Power is a SS MC452 and it's a beast. Soundstage is huge and crystal clear. MY speakers are Cornwall IVs and  I'm very happy. My only change to my setup would be to BI-AMP with a MC275VI tube for the uppers and the 452 for bass. Good luck

@wolfgangamadeusaudiophiliac This is most definitely a great conversation from everyone.

I play with vintage gear all the time. I prefer warming sound, I also like fast detailed tight bass.

I’ve bought new gear solid state power amplifiers and preamplifiers. What I found is I’m not a big fan of modern solid state amplifiers, I don’t like class D which is where the industry is going, due to cost savings.

Preamplifiers have improved low noise floor. Modern Solid State preamplifiers have that quality.

I have two very good vintage tube preamplifiers recapped restored. Marantz 7c & HK Citation 1. 

Both tube preamplifiers sound very good.

I’ve tried Marantz 7c tube preamp with Marantz 15, Marantz 16 Marantz 250. All solid state with Marantz sound. All been recapped bench tested. Marantz 7c took it to another level with them.

Mixing Mcintosh would be the same thing,

I’ve also tried Citation 1 preamp tube with HK Citation 16 150 watts Solid State amp. That combination sounds very good as well.

All tube amplifiers are not the same as like solid state amplifiers. Some are warmer tube sounding others can be cold and harsh.

Marantz 8b tube amplifier and solid state marantz amplifiers sound very close. Marantz 8b in its power range 35 watts, almost solid state sounding, tight bass, fast response, detailed highs etc.

If had power hungry speakers and wanted high volumes. Marantz 7c tube pre and marantz 250 or 500 amazing fit. But I only need 35 watts, sounds little more airy detailed to me.

Harmon Kardon Citation 2 tube power amplifier sound more like a tube amp to me. Still very wonderful. I would say If I need more power Citation 16 with 150watts fits the bill!

Now Marantz tube pre amp and power amplifier have a lower noise floor then the HK Tube system. I have La Scalas speakers, you will hear noise with tube period.. HK system I can hear hiss, completely normal.

I have a modern rotel RC-1580 preamp "wonderful preamp" sounds very good! Cheap, doesn’t add anything and it doesn’t subtract, Has tone controls, remote etc. One big positive it is silent, any amplifier i connect to it is silent or almost silent. Great with horn speakers.

If you want a low noise floor modern solid state preamp way to go, match it with vintage or new tube amplifier great results.

Based on what you want to do, what speakers you have. Mixing tubes and solid state have there benefits.

Mcintosh is great! I’ve had mc275 wasn’t for me, older McIntosh amps great midrange. I did a complete restoration on Mcintosh MX110 Jason Momoa has it now lol. Did a restoration MC240 and MC30. Build quality is wonderful! But wasn’t the sound I was looking for. Roger Russell is an amazing guy at Mcintosh.

Don’t be afraid to branch out, I have 1952 Pilot amps AA-901 sounds amazing, tried them with the rotel and Citation1. Wonderfull wonderful amps.

Back to new amplifiers, If I was going with new one it most likely would be tube.

Cheers

 

Casey

Dang it wrote too much lol.

 

 

 

I have a c2700-275 combo and its quite nice. I'd definitely move up to the c22 or c2700 over the c8 unless you really like that look.

dac2 board is quite good for the money as well. ARC in the dac 2 board is also very handy if you have a TV in the same room. the options on the c2700 make it the best preamp I've used for options and flexibility.

The 275 runs hot.

both need better tubes then the JJ's ( i believe they are JJ's) MAC supplies as OEM tubes not bad for new tubes but lacking in so many ways. almost every negative I've read above for the mac tube gear can be related to those tubes IMO.  

EH tubes are much better 

Mc 611 monos work very well with a tube preamp.  Monos a lot better due two separate power supply and more power.

@wolfgangamadeusaudiophiliac and @glennewdick

I swapped out the JJ tubes in my MC275s with Gold Lion and Mullard. Nice improvement all around, but especially in the mids range and bass. I changed the tubes in my C2700 with Telefuken and Mullard. Good improvement on the upper range with the Telefuken tube.

I demoed the MA325 prior to getting the C2700/MC275 combo. It’s a really good hybrid integrated amp. If you pair it with some decent high efficiency speakers you will not regret it unless you want the flexibility of separates. I listened to the MA325 with Cornwalls and it was a great setup.

No right or wrong answer on pairing Tube with SS or Tube with Tube. It all comes down to personal preference. I will say that adding subwoofers will also provide better bass than what you can get out of typical speakers.

@wolfgangamadeusaudiophiliac 

I stayed with a tube preamp (C2700) and SS power amp (MC462) setup when I upgraded to separates.  I'm very happy with the combo.  Best of both worlds.  The C2700 is a fantastic pre, IMO.  Regarding the MA352 - To be fair, I think it just wasn't a great match with my speakers.  It's a nice, solid unit, and most owners are very happy with it.  I definitely seem to be in the minority with my experience.

Very new to Mac. I brought home a pair of 611’s and a c49 this weekend to drive my Kef blades. These are the store demos and I expect are indicative of what a run in system will sound like. The system has exceeded my expectations and I’m buying them. My Mc dealer says I’ll like the tube pre better, but he also says I’ll get full future trade value so I’m going to keep enjoying the c49 awhile. I expected the amps to sail through chili peppers turned up to 11 and they do. What really surprised me is how open, detailed and dynamic they sound at low and moderate volume. I just need a couple bases to get them off the carpet and I’m set. 

@jumia Wrote:

Mc 611 monos work very well with a tube preamp.  Monos a lot better due two separate power supply and more power.

I agree. I will also add that monoblock amps have better left and right channel separation and the ability to keep the speaker cables very, very short plus each monoblock amp can have it's own AC dedicated circuit. Lastly, the mono blocks do not take up any real estate in my listen room as I have each monoblock amp under each speaker. 😎

Mike

I, like @styleman went from a 6900 to a MA352 and really love the sound of the 352. I have rolled a couple of tubes in it. Currently using some Tung-sol’s and they have added a thickness to it in the best way possible. I like the combo of SS amp and tube preamp. I feel like the MA352 gives you a lot of flexibility. The MA352 is a winner in my book. I haven't noticed any harshness in the mids. I'm running mine with the JBL L100 Classic 75's. Amazing combo. Let us know what you end up doing!

@willg1985

 

Can you be specific on the Tung-sol tubes you replaced the stock tubes with.  I'd like to try it.  Thanks

@styleman @glennewdick @femoore12  So the stock JJ tubes in MC275 better be replaced? Do you guys purchase those tubes online usually? 

@dreas I hear hear great things about the Revel F328Be speakers though I haven not auditioned them. How is the soundstage and imaging ? Would you say the sound is on the euphonic and dynamic side than accurate ? Three 8" woofers must be giving you a big, full sound I guess?

Wolfgang………. Yes many of us buy online. I usually stick with a couple bigger ones. Tube store. Tube depot. Are two I’ve used often enough with no disappointment from either. 

@wolfgangamadeusaudiophiliac 

You don't have to replace the stock tubes. They are good stable tubes that will last thousands of hours. I decided to swap mine out after roughly nine months of listening with the JJ tubes. I was curious if a higher grade of tubes would make a difference. I learned that it did make a difference. I purchased mine from Tube Depot and Upscale Audio. Good experience with both stores. 

@wolfgangamadeusaudiophiliac Admittedly it is hard to answer your question re. the Revel F328Be (I initially owned the F228Be but after about a year, upgraded to the F328Be).

I have a smallish room 13’ x 13’, well treated with panels, diffusers, and small bass traps. Additionally, custom length bluejean speaker cables, after market power cord, dedicated power to my room, power conditioner... The F228Be bass port is in front; the F328Be in the rear. You can surmise the rationale. Interestingly, (using the Wilson placement process AKA the mirror reflection) I’ve found I have to be closer to the "center" to have optimum sound stage. 99% most likely my room, not the speakers. Imaging is incredible. At times, I hear the drums "on my right knee" and others there is no L or R depending on the music source/recording, etc. Re. your questions of euphonic / dynamics, all I can say is that the power match with the MA352 (integrated / tubes) creates a wonderful warm presence. I hear things I've never heard with these speakers. Fine nuances, Goldberg "humming" as he plays, the singer's breath... I mean at times, it seems better than if I'd been in a symphony hall. Bottom line, these are my last speakers and will likely move homes in the next few years hoping to have a bit larger listening room. As I noted, these and the MA352 are my anchors. I may upgrade other components, but not the amp or speakers. Sure, there are better options but for my budget and enjoyment, I could not be happier. BTW, shop around. The Revels weigh in around $16-17K for the pair but you can find sources that are closer to $10K if you’re patient.

Good luck and as Hans says, whatever you do, enjoy the music.

Separates are always better sounding than Integrated amps.....because everything is not being stuffed into a single box...Physics. Tube pre with SS power amp is always the most effective way to go....That gives you the Best of both worlds... MAC amps are ALL assembled in NY.

Those of you who have the DA2 did you upgrade from the da1? I ask because my dealer is offering the da2 upgrade, but with all my digital sources being redbook cd or a max of 24/192 streaming. I would like to know if your impressions are of A clear upgrade in sq across the board and what you like about it? Day 5 I’m streaming brain salad surgery and pushing around 5-10 watts (luv the meters) it doesn’t stop getting better.

Now that I’m hearing what these blade’s can do I’m a little embarrassed that I waited so long.

@wolfgangamadeusaudiophiliac    I was referring to the change in the stock tubes in the MA352 hybrid integrated amp, not the MC275, as  mentioned by willg 1985. I assume one changes the same type of tube but of a different brand.