i am very, very, very happy with Hegel H590. it has everything. |
+1 with Tomic601, I love my Aesthetix Mimas integrated. Tube preamp, zero feedback, lots of power at lower ohms. Feeds my Vandersteen Quatros beautifully. I've heard Hegel 390 which also sounded good. More reviewers are saying integrated are just only a shade less amazing than good integrateds. Also has advantages Millercarbon pointed out.
Enjoy the journey, you won't go wrong either way. |
Oppo rtunity stupid smart phones |
This subject hits home for me. I’m going through an audio change to simplify things for my wife whom is much smarter than I with her fancy degree but she can’t operate my setup. She’s actually afraid of it, 4 power switches and proper sequence to turn on and off is to much for her, she is afraid she will break something lol. FedEx is delivering a Hegel h390 today that I’m gonna slide in position where my tube preamp and tube amplifier sit and hear it out. I have an Opportunity 205 does double duty movies and music, Chord Cutest, Lumin U1 mini with power booster, (gonna be fun comparing steamer and DAC capabilities with the Hegel) and a Mobile fidelity turntable and phono pre. I’m looking so forward to this It’s gonna be a fun Sunday! Hmmm I think I’m a promiscuous audio ho |
With a little patience, you can find demos. Nice ones. Check Reno HiFi for Pass. Nice prices. There are several other ones. Music Room, Upscale Audio, etc. Upscale has a 2600 DAC new that is supposed to be awesome. |
As cerrot mentioned about Rowwlands- You could probably acquire a gently used pair of Jeff Rowland Class AB Model 12 monoblocks for a very good price if you search around. Originally $12,000/pr...Maybe $3000-$6000 for the pair used? Not sure.
Your Olympic Nova’s, like my JM Lab Mezzo Utopia’s are 4 ohm speakers.The Model 12’s are rated 350W into 4 ohms. Wonderful amps. The difference being the Mezzo’s are 92.5dB.
Best of luck! |
If you're into this for the music, get an intergraded, if you're into the hifi hobby, get separates and try to spend all 10k on a used 5 star amp (like Jeff Rowland). |
Luxman or Hegel integrated, the rest on streamer if needed after the fact. |
Audio by Van Alstine…the DMA225 monos and one of their pre amps. Backert labs pre also could be amazing. You could go Lumin or Innuos on the streamer. I think they would make beautiful music with the Nova IIs |
Jadis integrated's or pre/powers work like magic with Sonus Faber. I know the UK distributor who does both Jadis and Sonus Faber and this is a combination he loves at whatever budget range you are.
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I don’t think a separate amp,is the best route.
My experience has been a quality preamp accentuates the source. I used to use an integrated amp. I added a preamp (MC 2600) and it impacted my system so much I have replaced the integrated amp with an amp, upgrade the DAC, turntable, speakers and interconnects in order and with significant impact.
The last upgrades were Sonus Sonetto Vs to Sonus faber olympica nova Vs and Kimber Kable loom. |
If you want to upgrade and simplify everything in one fell swoop, find a Devialet expert 200 (dac, streamer, full powerful integrated in beautiful slim package) on the used market and buy some very nice speaker cables. If you want to play the incremental audiophile game like most of us, though, there's infinite options and just have fun with it. |
Some great ones mentioned above. Also Vinnie Rossi or better yet Rowland if you can find a good used one not too old.
Separates may be a slightly higher level of SQ but along with that
your drain off funds to buy other better components.
Not to mention time and energy keeping two components serviced.
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Had Spectral separates for 20 years without a hitch. Downsized toHT and sold the electronics. With covid shutting down concerts and travel, needed music only and expected All in one Nad. Masters. Heard the esoteric integrated into 92db speakers. Very musical, great phono stage and headphone amp. With the build quality, power supplies, and isolation of the phono, there is no need for separates. |
I would put the money in a good DAC before an amp.
Do whatever makes you the happiest. |
Check out The Coda CSIB integrated amp
3 power choices , madeinUSA best of 2020 and review stereo times excellent integrated and beat separates of much more monies$6500 |
I really believe in purchasing lightly used gear. I have two systems that I have put together over the last few years, and almost all the gear was purchased used. With your budget,you can probably get a great amp and preamp going used. That is a very healthy budget,and there are a lot of great values out there. |
I would look at Ayre, as well.
B |
10k, one component, I’d be all over one of Pass Labs or Luxman’s high end integrateds. End game. |
I think given the price range you are looking at an integrated would be a great idea. I really love the Audio Research VSi75 for wonderful musicality, detail, and power. If I was in the market in this price range, this is what I would buy. |
@soix I hear what you're saying and it make sense. I'm at the exploratory phase at this moment so the wide range of recommendations is actually helpful. I wish I could say I'm looking for exactly XYZ but I can't. Actually I don't wish that because I still have some fun ahead of me figuring that out. It's good to hear different perspectives so I don't get sucked into one line of thinking. Again, I don't know what I don't know here as I'm moving up into better equipment for the first time. The Olympica Nova's have not even arrived yet and this upgrade doesn't need to happen immediately. So in the meantime, it's fun to think about and research all the options. |
Basically you are saying the Cambridge DAC/Pre-amp will significantly drag down even a $10K level amp...I wonder if others agree with this? Uh, that’d be yes x 1000!!! NEVER underestimate the importance of a preamp — it can make or break a system. The DAC is up there two so you’d be doing a nice amp a disservice on both counts. This conversation needs to start with what sound characteristics are most important to you and what you’re looking to improve upon over what you are hearing now. Otherwise — and as you can already see happening here now — you’re just going to get a wide range of personal preferences that may or may not have anything to do your own, which is basically useless or even counterproductive. So start by stating your personal preferences and goals and you’ll get much better recommendations here. My $0.02. |
worthy speakers, I'd love to hear them.
I encourage trying tubes, and am always tempted by the Raven Blackhawk millercarbon just bought and recommends after actual listening which is quite an endorsement.
One optional feature is their built-in high pass crossover to move the bass load to a self-powered sub or separate amp(s).
I think the speakers are set up for bi-amp so you have future options. |
Aesthetix Mimas, never look back |
There are many ways to go about this and your preferences should rule the day. With that said....
While every integrated is different, most do not have an active inboard linestage, in other words, they are basically an amp with a volume control.
Consider aquiring an amp and a pre-amp. On the used market, you might even consider a pre-owned McIntosh new/recent reissued version of the C22/MC275 combo. It would match up well with the Olympica Nova's as Sonus Faber worked with that combo when developing the speaker. While not the last word in tube goodness, the McIntosh combo would retain its value and demand when you are ready to sell and move up qualitatively. Your Cambridge DAC/streamer would be fine for now as a source only, especially given the opportunity to not use its volume control, leaving those duties for your C22. This would be a good match with your Olympicas and frankly, your next upgrade could come on the DAC or speaker front as an investment with either of those would probably yield better results in the future as the C22/275 combo can scale up another level or two.
It might come as a shock to MillerCarbon but the gear he owns isn't one size fit all for everyone's application. The Raven's won't drive the Olympica Nova's as effectively as a 275 as the Nova is a solid 4 ohm load.
Disclaimer: I am not a dealer nor do I own any of the aforementioned equipment although I have owned a C22/275 in the past. I have heard a Raven amp but have not owned one. They are fine amplifiers but the 6L6 can run out of gas with some speakers and some volume levels. |
@sbank Your line of thinking makes sense. Basically you are saying the Cambridge DAC/Pre-amp will significantly drag down even a $10K level amp.
I wonder if others agree with this? Is the CA 851N streamer so bad that I'd be better off spreading the $10K around to upgrade the whole system? I don't know what I don't know I guess.
@mesch I only use digital today through the streamer. I also have it connected to my TV but that's not a big concern right now. Thinking of adding a turntable later but that's just for fun to try out.
@millercarbon Thanks for the recommendation. I was worried my current 100 wpc amp might struggle a little with driving these. But I suppose pure wattage is not the only solution. |
Your speakers are 88dB. We had some here only 87dB and they absolutely came alive with the Raven Blackhawk. Played impressively loud too, in my 17x24 room. Unless you have a lot bigger room or listen real loud you will be fine with this amp, which is absolutely magical. Being integrated eliminates the "component synergy" canard entirely. Also eliminates one interconnect, one power cord, one fuse, set of Pods, etc. Add it all up, a Blackhawk with all that will still be well under $10k and sound far better than any separate amp you can find.
Separates only get anywhere by ignoring all this other stuff. The minute
you account for everything the so-called performance advantage
evaporates.
Talk to Dave Thompson, he knows his tubes and will set you up with some great ones. Amp goes from great to magic with the right tubes.
If you do want more power, Audio Hungary.
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I’m getting amazing results for $5,500 in a 2nd system with some great, lightly used gear. Components and their used cost: Leben CS-300xs ($2,700) driving Forte III’s ($2,400) and being fed by an older Node2 ($400/new). For the money, or actually any amount of money, this is a really fun and satisfying setup. Don’t feel you have to spend the $10K. The key is finding fantastic component synergy. |
What sources do you use other than the streamer portion of the Cambridge pre?
Just one thought, start the upgrade path from the source. Separates will allow for this. Replace the Cambridge full function preamp with new DAC and line level Preamp. Providing the Cambridge amp it is driving your speakers satisfactorily use it till it can be replaced. The search for 'the' amp for your speakers can continue. Upgrades in the front end of your system will be appreciated till that purchase is made. |
It would be a shame to drop $8-$10K on a power amp and pair it w/the Cambridge for the next couple of years. While I agree with all the caveats posted above(space, extra cables, etc.) separates are generally a wiser investment.
Are you talking new or used gear? Either way, I'd rather see you upgrade both amp & pre. For example, get a Backert Labs Rhumba for $4K and your fav $4-6K power amp that pair well w/the Sonus Fabers and you'll have a blast instead of waiting 2 more years to hear what your new super-amp can do. Cheers,
Spencer |
I had Mcintosh separates for years, went with a Luxman integrated just last year (I could have gone Hegal and others, but that's another story as to why). I find it sounds way, way better, however to be fair, my Mac was getting quite old. Anyway, lots of pros and cons to going from separates to integrated, less wires, less "what's not working right, easier to operate for the wife/girlfriend/significant other, or all three...There are cons, if you do want to upgrade, then the whole thing goes, rather then just switch out the pre or amp for a better one (although some like the Luxman allow you to bypass the internal amp and use it for a pre only, but I find that silly - you now paid good money for something you'll not use). In theory separates sound better, a $10K amp (which Luxman has in the 900 series) I am sure would sound better then the 590AX II integrated I brought) but that would have double the cost of an integrated once I added in their pre. One other thought, I like to keep things for a long while, I don't have "upgraditist", if I did I would have gone separates again. As always, just an opinion based on my personal experience
Since it seems you would be fine upgrading the amp now and waiting to upgrade the the pre later, that sounds like the route for you.
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