Ok GAE owners, now you can sell your turntables, because upcoming Technics 100th Anniversary model will be a new version of the reference SP-10mk3 and they call it SP-10R. Finally!
"Berlin, Germany (30 August 2017) – Technics has today announced the launch of the Reference Class SP-10R, its most premium analogue, direct drive turntable to date, which is anticipated to hit the market in early summer 2018. The news comes as Technics unveils a prototype of the new, cutting-edge turntable with the world’s top-level* S/N (signal-to-noise) ratio and rotational stability for the first time at this year’s IFA."
"Reference Class Turntable Promising Outstanding Results
The SP-10R features a brand new, coreless direct drive motor which, in addition to the two-sided rotor drive system that was used in the SL-1200G, boasts stator coils on both sides of the rotor, for a more powerful and accurate sound."
"The heavy platter features a three-layer structure consisting of brass, aluminum die-cast and deadening rubber, just like the platter of the SL-1200G. By optimising the natural frequency of each layer, external vibrations are thoroughly suppressed resulting in a beautifully clear and crisp audio experience."
"The SP-10R also features a new ultra-low-noise switching power supply, which, compared to a power supply unit using a transformer, is better at suppressing unwanted humming sounds and vibrations. The power supply unit is separate from the main turntable, preventing unwelcome noise from being transmitted to the turntable unit, for a sharper and clearer sound."
P.S. Should we expect $15 000 or more ? And the new plinth comin soon?
Power supply looks funny, but the design of the drive is great, i think we should wait for the new version of the EPA-100 soon. Good news the GAE was not the last turntable !!!
Dear @chakster: That's a very good news for us audiophiles in more than one way.
If Technics/Panasonic decided to " hit " the high-end audiophile market the 10R is a good point to begin with.
This company is part of the gigantic Japanese enterprise Matushita thatis one of the bigger ( if not the biggest. ) electronic corporation in the world. This means endless human resources and money along latest technologies. They are leaders in what they market.
Now, all those resources could means nothing if Technics does not have today the very specific needs in the true and serious high-end audiophile market for each audio item that conforms an audio system but if they make its work/research and develops the TTs with that specific knowledge level then what a great notice we have here.
If Technics discover all the high-end market needs then we can say that the best time for audio is forthcoming sooner that we can imagine.
We have to remember that historical Technics designed every single audio system items where TTs was only one of those products. They designed full electronics line, MM and LOMC cartridges, tonearms and even speakers and all their product always first rate and at the top of the top quality performance.
I hope they can do it again because that kind of action can motivate Pionner or Denon to come back to the today high-end market. Where Pionner and Denon where very competitive against Technics in those old times. We just have to remember the Exclusive line in Pioneer or DP-100 with Denon but both were in electronics and speakers too and we have to add companies as Sony or Yamaha and some other. All great enterprises with huge resources and very competitive in between.
An scenario with all those Japanese companies is and can be HISTORICAL for say the least and between other things means that the today extremely high price tags that every day goes higher then will go lower and lower for the top audio items will be affordable for almost all of us.
People say here in my country: " when you see your neighbour beard to cut then put yours to soak ". So, the Technics annoucement is a very good " warning " for the today true audio high-end industry for they WAKE UP and develops the audio items the market truly needs with the rigth price tags and not following given us " MORE OF THE SAME " at every time higher prices.
As I said that 10R is a great notice for all of us. Now we have to wait a little and see if Technics decides to really stay in our market.
Amazing, if the GAE was just a first step and the next step in 2018 is Reference SP-10R with new Plinth and new Tonearm, i think new Cartridge from Technics is not a fantasy. I was sceptical about GAE, but now i see they are serious and gonna hit the High-End market with something we could only dream about (not so long ago). I don’t think they will pass on the cartridge releasing reference turntable, tonearm etc. Must be a giant killer! Sure shot from Matsushita! It’s a good way to celebrate 100th Anniversary.
Putting other major Japanese based companies in the same "boat" so to speak with Technics in regards to building a new high end table is at the best wishful thinking.
Even back in the day there were few companies that did not outsource a large portion of their product line most notably the top tier turntables and tonearms Technics was one of them. Leaving a handful at best to provide the in house talent on a for hire basis.
I'm excited to see the latest push for Technics in the table market but don't expect to see others rush to compete IMHO.
As chakster stated the resources and money needed are enormous for DD's.
Dear @totem395 : """
Putting other major Japanese based companies in the same "boat" so to speak with Technics in regards to building a new high end table is at the best wishful thinking. """
Well, maybe I just " think " so loud in my post but I think that audiophiles, each one of us, can do something about and this is MOTIVATE those Japanese companies to do it. First step is doings with Technics that already is in that " direction ".
To do that we can, each one of us, contact Technicis corporation to send 2 congratulations " for the development of the R10 and at the same time tell that we don't want that stop there but that we audiophiles needs the tonearm and cartridges for that R10 and tell them that exist a " live market " waiting for Technics quality level.
A mail with something like that ( was an example. ). I think that if all of us are together we can make things happens. If we can really motivate Technics to cope our market then there is a posibility that Sony, Denon, Pioneer or Yamaha go inside the " road ". At the end all these companies are alive, have the human resources, money and knowledge about.
Even some of them have access to technology/parts where almost all of the today audio industry can't.
Technics needs a stron additional true motivation to " hit " the high-end market other than celebrates its 100th anniversary and that critical motivation needs to go from we audiophiles. Some one needs to tell them we need it.
I invite each one of us to contact Technics through an email and tell them our hopes additional to congratulations for the R10.
High-end market exist because audiophiles exist. Products with out audiophiles does not makes a market for it.
LET'S DO IT ! TODAY ! be an " actor in the picture " and not a mere
You will find in Japan, a lot of employees are at a company their entire working life. It would not surprise me at all if one or two of the original SP10 engineers have had a hand in bringing this new R model out. the dimensions are exactly the same as the SP10 mk3.
I was impressed not only by this new SP-10R, but also by the skills of the Michiko Ogawa (Director of Technics Project Panasonic Corporation) when she's on the grand piano https://youtu.be/XRLz6Z6nTNw
"Michiko Ogawa is responsible for the growth strategies of the audio business within the Home Entertainment Business Division of the Appliances Company, Panasonic.
Ogawa began her career at the Matsushita Electric Industrial Company – later Panasonic Corporation - in 1986, having graduated from the Science and Technology Department at Keio University, Japan.
In the early years of her career, Ogawa was part of the team within the Acoustic Research Laboratory that planned, researched and developed technologies for the commercialisation of audio equipment. She was instrumental in developing the world’s first ultra-slim, large-diaphragm speaker, the Technics AFP1000 in 1988.
In addition to her career achievements, Ogawa is also a key figure on the classical jazz scene in Japan. She began studying classical piano at the age of three and learned jazz by listening to records that her father played. At university she formed a jazz band and in 1993, she resumed performing as a solo jazz pianist. She has played at highly prestigious events, most recently with the Kansai Philharmonic Orchestra in Osaka. Ms Ogawa has released a total of 14 CDs.
Combining her love of music and complementary knowledge of acoustics and technology, Ogawa is currently Director of the Technics project in the Home Entertainment Business Division of Panasonic."
Very Exiting indeed, Looking at the video one can't help but to nice that the motor it self look identical to then used in the SL1200 model with some added mechanical isolation and a very robust platter. As it appears they will release this as a drive and hopefully a complete turntable with plinth and tonearm.
Having worked a bit with the SP10MK2 and the MK3 I wish they would make the housing for the drive round on the two back corners as this would allow for the use of 9" arms, the Mk2 and 3 and this one as it appears allow only for 12" arms to be used if a aesthetically pleasing result is desired.
Fantastic news! After two decades of HT DVD, Blu-ray and giant TV screen focus and portable music devices and more audiophile stores closing each year - it is hugely encouraging to see that the industry recognizes there is still a market for reference class two channel vinyl!
Hopefully the industry will continue to put out great quality recordings. When Telarc went belly up it seemed to be the end of the golden era audio but perhaps there is a chance the audiophile market may get out of the Intensive Care Unit. Another encouraging sign is Tidal (HD Tracks was such a rip off - low cost distribution but sky high prices)..
I wonder how Technics are going to distribute this TT - it is not the kind of thing you would expect to find in Best Buy or Walmart? And Amazon is killing traditional retailing.
Perhaps even Jimmy Page will want one - he has an old Technics setup at home.
downunder, one of the blurbs I read when the SL1200GAE was announced mentioned that a couple of the older technicians who worked on the SP-10 Mk 2 and Mk 3 were involved in the new upgraded model. So yes, it seems likely that older talent could well be contributing to the SP-10R and possibly other new designs.
My hat is off to Technics for this! My only beef is that the new SP-10 has the same failings as all the earlier ones: the plinth is not set up right to accommodate a tone arm! So we're back to the same issue of having to build up an aftermarket product to fix this. Hopefully Technics will sort out that their market is not radio stations and they will offer an extended plinth.
My only beef is that the new SP-10 has
the same failings as all the earlier ones: the plinth is not set up
right to accommodate a tone arm!
I'm not sure what you mean, Ralph - the SP-10 was always offered as a motor drive unit (like Denon's DP-75 & DP-80), with the choice of plinth left to the user. That seems to me to offer the most options and flexibility.
I think what Ralph is saying, and I agree, is that the square shape of the escutcheon surrounding the platter makes it nigh impossible to mount a 9-inch tone arm, at least one of the type that Ralph and I are fond of, where the bearing assembly is offset to the outside of the vertical pillar that allows for VTA adjustment. Peter, I have no trouble mounting a 10.5 inch Reed on my Mk3, so at least 12 inch tonearms are not mandatory. But why oh why did they have to retain that idiotic square escutcheon? Marketing... They want to remind us of the SP10s of yore. So, Peter, there will still be work for you to do to separate the operating elements of the 10R from that silly escutcheon. Peter, are you also saying that the motor looks just like that of a 1200GAE? I would doubt they would try to put that one over on us; at least I hope not.
Sunil Merchant. Sunny Components Inc Proud dealer for Technics products.
We are excited to see Technics living up to their commitment on supplying hi end products at reasonable prices. Their tables are built with quality, great parts and work well. We at Sunny's have stock on all models. We even have a GAE left in stock for that lucky guy who purchases a complete system from us. Personally I am in love with the new Technics speakers. AMAZING !
I have been pondering buying a Technics 1200G and asking atmasphere to assist in modifying it to handle a Triplanar 12" arm. Guess that I will be pondering a bit longer. I am waiting for the SP10R.
With regards to Technics retaining the square footprint on their new SP-10, it has been noted that it "can replace previous SP-10 models so a drop in replacement" Makes all those who have Obsidian and custom plinths happy and expands the market.
Seems 9" arm suitability was not a priority.
Side note, even the "round bezelled Victor" can be problematic with short arms especially when they use damping troughs.
No problem with the Technics EPA-100 as you can see on my old picture, but some true "9 inch tonearms are impossible to mount because the spindle to pivot distance is too short and the mouting hole must be too close to the SP-10mk2 metal frame. For example i can't mount my NOS Sony PUA-1600S for this reason. I'm much more comfortable with "12inch tonearms on my teak wook plinth (which is much wider than obsidian plinth). The compromise is my Reed 3P "12 inch for example, so everything depends on the mounting distance of the particular tonearm (and the position of the mouning platform of the arm, the shape of it, etc).
I've seen those ugly modern SME and other short tonearms moved toward the senter, but it's definitely not what i would love to see on my Technics turntables. Aesthetics is always important for me, not just the sound and for this reason i don't like obsidian plinth with its limitations and design (if the tonearm is not EPA). And i agree that round tunrtable drive would be easier to use whatever tonearm on any good looking plinth, but the Technics is a classic in its original form. For this reason i've bought Luxman PD-444 to swap the tonearms, nothing can beat it in terms of usability (imo).
I don't care for the obsidian plinth either but I was actually responding to the question of how to use a 9" arm with the SP-10. The first SP-10 I had came with a 9" Signet arm that worked fine. There's quite a few 9" arms that will. I completely understand your position though Chakster.
Sorry its been a while since my first post here; I was in an accident and only now have had time to respond.
The problem with the machine is that the plinth is so tiny that an arm cannot be mounted without some sort of external device. The photo that chakster put up is an excellent example, in it we see that the 'table is mounted in a base and the arm is mounted on that base as well, rather than the plinth of the 'table.
This means that if there is any vibration, the difference between the plinth and where the arm is mounted will be interpreted as a coloration.
Albert Porter and a few others recognized this problem and produced custom plinths to help control vibration between the base of the motor and the base of the tonearm.
This is a problem area. Plinth is essentially a vibration management system and that is "the" most important aspect of a TT (even more than absolute speed stability). The most widely used method to build a plinth is to stack layers of birch ply or variations around it. To me it is a very utilitarian way to handling an esoteric problem. A company like panasonic/technics are much more well equipped to measure vibrations and build a suitable body around the SP-10R to make it perform well. But they leave it to us !!
In that regards the SL-1200 GAE is much more complete.
Albert says that his Technics' sound is closest to master tape dubs played on his Studer A810 of any turntable he has ever heard. If he is right, and I assume he almost certainly is, who needs Walker, TechDas, TW, Brinkmann etc ? It is also much less expensive.
Albert says that his Technics' sound is closest to master tape dubs played on his Studer A810 of any turntable he has ever heard. If he is right, and I assume he almost certainly is, who needs Walker, TechDas, TW, Brinkmann etc ? It is also much less expensive.
Before now, an SP10 Mk3 complete and in good to excellent working condition would have been worth about $10K to $12K, sans any plinth. I think the introduction of the SP10R into the market place will drive the value of the Mk3 down below the 5-figure level, because the SP10R will likely retail for less than $20K, and with its coreless motor and modern drive system, it has to be at least as good as, and maybe better than, the Mk3. So, in one way or another, we will all benefit. Tweakers apparently can remove the motor/platter from the SP10R for mounting in an aftermarket plinth, thereby eliminating the upper square escutcheon entirely. If I were in the business of selling $50,000 and above belt-drive turntables, I would be concerned. Done right, the SP10R could change the game entirely. (As a Mk3 owner, I can take solace in the apparent facts that the 10R motor has less torque and the 10R platter has less mass than either analogous part of my Mk3. But I will want a 10R.)
Albert may step in here to speak for himself, but if not, he began with a SP-10 Mk 2, mounted in an upgraded plinth mainly of his own design. He found that good enough to replace his reference Walker table and arm. Then he was able to buy a SP-10 Mk 3 which offered even better performance. I suspect that was the one utilized for his comparison against master tapes.
In other regards I agree with Lew's post, except that I own a Mk 2 rather than a Mk 3. :^(
Yes, Albert was talking about his Mk3 with top arms and cartridges. He's got two of them with four arms. Still, the tape rules and it will. I'd rather get Studer for $5k or so, add another $5k to make it near perfect and chase master tape dubs. Studer for the price of a cartridge... Even Otari and some others should be capable of beating almost any vinyl set-up. But if you have thousands of records and listen to most of them then yeah maybe better stay with vinyl. Not my situation.
Considering that they have already figured out the design for the GAE and sp10-R and both of them would share a lot, a big company like Technics would like to play the game of volumes rather than selling few TTs in a year. At $15k and above they will only be targeting less than 5% of the audiophiles. That I dont think they would want to do.
Dear Nandric, Even if I never used the L07D, I would not part with it. However, I am not going to live forever, so perhaps you should become friends with my wife, who does not play LPs and whose mother lived to age 96. She will have a lot of stuff to sell, if she outlives me, as expected.
In my opinion, there is no way that the SP10R will sell for less than $10K, retail. If for no other reason than the fact that it will be viewed as a "bargain" even in the $15K to $20K price range. Further, it will be the flagship of a new high end line of equipment from Technics, as Raul suggested. Speaking of Raul, I hope that he and his family escaped injury and loss of property in the Mexico City earthquake. Raul, if you are out there, please report.
Inna, I share your appreciation of R2R tape recordings, but that pursuit is for the deep of pocket crowd only, not because of the initial cost of the machine but because of the outrageous cost (and paucity) of the best quality tape recordings. A 100-tape collection might set you back $10,000!
lewm, records can cost just as much and more. Tapes too can cost much more than $100. I am very selective and don't need too many, nor do I need to have them all right away. $15k turntable plus tonearm, cartridge and phono is also only for the well-off. We are talking about $100k system, at least.
This Table will be 10K. By Cedia we shall have more goodies to discuss. Till then we must give Technics time to hand craft something amazing. And NO it has a completely re-engineered motor far more complex than the GAE. Yes it's a 10K appox price.
Dear All Don’t forget that it will be 100 YEAR ANNIVERSARY REFERENCE CLASS MODEL from Technics, not just a serial model for mass market. It’s hard to believe that such model will cost less than 15k, probably higher. Maybe lower class model also will be available (who knows).
Inna, Yes, I grossly UNDERestimated the total cost for 100 really good tapes. Likewise, you horribly OVERestimated the cost for a like number of select LPs. I never ever pay more than $25 per, and by far most of my LP purchases are less than $10-$12 each. However, if you think you can be happy listening to the same few tapes over and over again, that's up to you. I could not be happy with such a limited repertoire. Each of us has his own predilections, but I don't see how you can rationalize R2R over vinyl on the basis of lower cost. I see R2R as a boutique endeavor.
Unless I and others grossly misunderstood the grandiose introduction of the 10R by Technics, there is no way it will retail for less than $15K. There is no need for them to place the price any lower than that, because they will sell all they can make, if it is as good as it looks. But the proof of the pudding is in the pricing, ultimately, and none of us really know for sure.
@inna i got reel to reel recorder from my gradfather, i’d love to stick to the R2R tapes, but it’s impossible to find the recordings of my favorite bands, i can’t even imagine how i can find any tapes if it’s not mainstream bands and even vinyl is rare? Only if i could drive with reel to reel recorder to fellow collectors to copy their rare vinyl to my blank tapes, lol.
@lewm the shipping alone cost $22-25 for an LP from USA to Europe, everything was cheaper 10-15 years ago. I wish i could buy all my favorite 60s/70s Jazz, Funk, Soul, Latin LPs and 45s in the late 90s when it was $1-15 in set sales dealers faxed to their customers (but i was too young and in the wrong place), nowadays some rare records i’ve bought 5-7 years ago for $50 cost $500, time to sell some. But still plenty of very good records (original pressings) available for $5, but not in the local stores, so i have to add shipping cost. I know many record collectors worldwide, people with the rarest records never pay attention to equipmet at all, they can play $1000 record on worn needle (the cheapest) forever. Those rare vinyl can be VG condition, nobody cares. At the same time the musical "taste" of many audiophiles does not impress me at all.
Yeah, well, ideally you need a few sources - R2R, turntable and digital, and that's exactly what I am after, only for now it is Nakamichi 682ZX cassette deck for compilations and background music instead of Studer. Taping from friends' vinyl is a great idea. LP shipping from Germany to the US is usually the least expensive, it is $15-$20 registered from Japan. I think, the average cost of my LPs is about $30. But if I wanted some original US or Japanese pro pressings in M- condition or some original UK, this would be over $100 on average. Still less than good master tape dubs.
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