Tidal FLAC vs. Qobuz

@gkelly I did demo the Rose 150, but I was in the middle of changing the entire system - amp, pre, speakers, t table etc, so maybe I didn't give the Rose a fair chance.  Since then I have done more research and it seems like much of the hype around the Rose was the screen and there were better stand alone dac's at that price.  In addition, I like the BluOS better than the rose OS.  So now that I have the system i want and have started using both Tidal and Qobuz, I want to start looking at dacs again.

My kids like Tidal better for EDM and RAP.   I also think their interface and song suggestion algorithms are pretty sweet.

They are missing some Dylan albums which is really lamo.  They just don't sound as good as Qobuz.  There MQA was just nasty.  

Tidal has a new high res service which I haven't tried.   I am paying 10 bucks a month on Qobuz, it is $20 on Tidal - BUT Tidal's family plan (up to 6 people) is $30 per month and it appears that you DO NOT have to live in same house.  Qobuz you MUST LIVE under the same roof for their family plan. 

Tough choice.

I have two Node 2i's and one Vault in three different places. I've never known them to be connected via Bluetooth. WiFi, yes, but not BT, I'm currently in front of my Mac Studio which is hardwired into my router, as is my Vault. Just for the fun of it, I turned off BT on my Mac, opened up the Mac BluOS app, and played music via Qobuz. No BT involved at all. 

I’m confused, which is somewhat normal these days, but isn’t the whole purpose of Tidal Connect is that you pass off the streaming URL directly from the Internet to the Bluesound Vault via the Ethernet cable from your modem/router? No lossy Bluetooth should be involved at all. Parker65310 said, "Support came in their 4.0 software release.", so maybe you should look into that if needed.

I mean, if a $219 WiiM Pro Plus can do this task, surely the Bluesound Vault can too. 

a linear power supply (teddy pardo)is different from a audioquest power conditioner. They do two completely different things. Did your dealer, let you take home the rose to demo? I asked this because usually when you go from $1000 product to a $4000 product you would noticed a demonstrative difference in the sq.

@mojo771 

I started with Tidal when Jay Z owned it.  Then I tried Qobuz.  I ran both for a year.  Just cancelled Tidal.  Qobuz has a more diverse selection of jazz, classical, and other types of music.  Many are in Hi Res.  Their version of Aja 24/192 and sounds fantastic.

I still buy CDs, SACDs, and really good vinyl release (Analogue Productions, Atlantic 75th, and UHQR).  So, I use Qobuz to preview new releases that I may buy, and music that I want to listen to expand my horizons.

I get the upgrade bug now and then.  This week I bought a Bricasti M3 DAC to replace my Chord Qutest with SBooster LPS.  I haven't listened yet, but I'm expecting a leap in SQ.

My 2 cents: upgrade your DAC and/or streamer.

@yage Honestly I'm not sure if its wifi or Bluetooth.  But its still wireless flac vs the mqa direct wired streaming when I use the ethernet to the Vault.  So I think wired mqa is still better than wireless flac.  But maybe we need an audio engineer for a definitive answer.

“I know that you can listen to Qobuz and Tidal through the BluOS app”
@mojo771 

Correct and this is the best way to stream music from any of the embedded music services within BlueOS App. As long as you have Tidal HiFi Plus plan, you can stream up to 24-bitt/192 kHz flac files. 

@mojo771 

Are you sure it's sending the audio data via Bluetooth? If you're using TIDAL Connect with the Vault, then it's using Wi-Fi not Bluetooth.

I have F208’s also…using stereo REL subs with them. Don’t want to hijack your thread but are the Studio 2’s profoundly better?

@chocaholic Thanks for pointing out the original question.  I agree that it seems counter productive to use Bluetooth. I know that you can listen to Qobuz and Tidal through the BluOS app, but I think you can only stream mqa through the BleOS app but need to go to the Tidal app to get flac level streaming, and I thought the only way to connect it to the Vault was through Bluetooth.  But maybe there is a wired option?

I just read a bit about the Denefrips you suggested and it sound like a great addition to my system.  I've been looking for a new DAC but haven't found the right one yet.  BTW, what Revel speakers do you have.  I had the Revel F208 and recently got the Studio 2.    I also have the Niagara power conditioner instead of the Teddy.  

OP, if supported by your device (Smartphone, Tablet), you could connect your BS Vault via Toslink or RCA Cinch. Or using a DAP (with Android OS) which offers Line out and/or SPDIF out.

If using Bluetooth, the devices should support aptx HD or similar. Otherwise, I can imagine that lower BT standard would be the bottleneck regarding SQ.

So far no one has answered his question. And I’m not sure I know the answer but I don’t think you should be using Bluetooth at all regardless of streaming source. Via the BluOS app you control Qobuz or Tidal by selecting them within the app.

And as a happy Node user, consider a Teddy Pardo LPS upgrade. Not much $ and a nice little upgrade. I use a Denefrips Pontus ll 12th DAC into a McIntosh MA352 integrated and Revel floor standers that sounds great to me.

@mojo771 I’ve being streaming FLAC files via BluOS for a few weeks now. Support came in their 4.0 software release. The FLAC files sound great. MQA competes, but I think overall the highest bit rate FLAC is better - better separation, soundstage, crispness without being harsh, etc.

+1 sns

Besides the catalog, what about the SQ (hi-res vs hi-res)?

Previously I was with Tidal and I switch to Qobuz when available in Canada re SQ (note : I do not have a MQA dac and when I was with Tidal, I prefer Tidal Redbook versions to MQA versions most of the time as MQA always sound un-natural to me. So, when I said I preferred Qobuz SQ, I was comparing Redbook Tidal to hi-res Qobuz).

Now, as Tidal hi-res is Flac, I was wondering... How do they compare?

Why choose, I run both.

@mojo771 

I really liked the BluOS app. It’s a very versatile app with plethora of options to stream. That’s one thing I missed with current App. By all means, keep the Vault and get a better DAC. As others have reported, you can also improve Vault’s performance by upgrading its power supply plus good quality SPDIF cable. 

As far as picking a DAC, search online and keep an eye on used market here and on USAM. I am confident you can find something within your budget and to your liking. It’s a bit of work but well worth it. 

Good luck! 

For example;  ELP -

Qobuz has 9 HiRes and 21 cd options. 

Tidal has 43 mqa, 23 flac, and 16 cd options

Lately I have found that the high res FLAC files on Qobuz sound way better than MQA on Tidal, for most things.  The "Studio Master" MQA often sound quite good to me, but on most of the classic rock I stream, Qobuz is far superior in my view.  I have both now but planning to move on from Tidal.  

@lalitk 

I  actually started looking for a new streamer but I really like the BluOS so now I'm looking for a DAC.  I test drove the Rose 150 streamer/dac but it didn't sound much different and I like the bluos better.  Many reviews on the Rose talked about the beautiful screen, but I don't need a beautiful screen since I use the Blu app.  I have received many suggestions - ranging from a $600 dac to a 10k dac, but my local dealer only has the Rose.  So I would need to buy some DACs knowing that I'm going to test drive and then return all but one.  I hate to do that.

+1 @carlsbad2 

Qobuz for the huge classical collection and the many hires albums.

Tidal has a better catalog for hip hop, rap, metal, and anything less than 10 yrs old.  Qobuz has a much more extensive jass, classical, rock, country and anything esoteric library.

I found the quality the same and chose qobuz based on library and presentation. Tidal kept trying to change my musical taste.  BS.

Jerry

@mojo771

If you like Tidal catalog better then stick with Tidal. IME, you won’t be able to truly appreciate Qobuz high resolution catalog unless you upgrade from Vault. I used to own Vault, it’s a good starter streamer/ripper with very good app.

MQA is the reason I left Tidal. Once Qobuz was available in Canada I was happy to leave that garbage behind. Don't miss all the rap suggestions either. 

My hope was that Tidal would be the clear favorite now, since they started streaming flac as well, but my question is, is it comparable to Qobuz flac if you need to send Tidal flac wirelessly over Bluetooth from the Tidal app, instead of streaming thru the BluOS like you can with Tidal mqa.

@mojo771 I prefer Tidal as well primarily because of the music genre. I have listened to Tidal and Qobuz back to back on music I like I preferred Tidal.

There are several folks I know who prefer Qobuz for music quality - my take away is go with what works best for you.

Mclinnguy, Maybe it has something to do with genre.  I mostly listen to classic rock, and I ususally see many more mqa and flac options with Tidal, while Qobuz has more flac, but then a LOT of cd options in their catalog.  When offered a choice between Qobuz cd vs. Tidal mqa, I go with Tidal.  

Tidal has a better catalog? Here is what I found: 

Tidal Music Library

For Tidal, it offers more than 100 million tracks and 650,000 music videos in its library. Users can find music on the Tidal sections like albums, explore, and so on. Besides, it offers more than 25,000 Hi-Res audio quality songs.

Qobuz Music Library👍

While Qobuz owns over 100 million audio. It has more than 424,000 Hi-Res tracks and over 60 million tracks in CD resolution. And you can search on Qobuz for the tracks you want to listen to. Yet, you can't find podcasts, audiobooks and other kinds of content on Qobuz. That's because Qobuz is only a music streaming service.

According to the data of the Qobuz or Tidal catalog, it seems that Qobuz and Tidal have a similar number of music library for users to enjoy music. But if you want to stream more Hi-Res tracks, you can go to Qobuz.

https://www.drmare.com/tidal-music/tidal-vs-qobuz.html

I don't know about you, but that 17 times as many hi-res tracks makes the decision easy for me.