@mattmiller
I don't believe Wilson Benesch advertises in TAS. At least, I never noticed them And I have their speakers so I would think I would.
The majority of their business is UK, Europe, and Asia. If you look at their distribution map, North America is tiny. I do believe they would like to penetrate the market and they had a good presence/room at the most recent Axpona. They've also recently replaced their American distributor. I'm sure they would like more visibility but I don't think they get it through advertising in any magazine in the past. Perhaps they're starting now.
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People here saying they'd buy that stuff if they could afford it. Just goes to show how anti-audiophile they are. Kick physics and the science of sound to the curb, because it must be better since it costs more. Those are the same people buying super expensive cables instead of just standard 12AWG OFC. Amatuers. Sheep. All of them.
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@tony1954 Your banana example is also a text book example of the term…’easy come, easy go.’
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@asvjerry
Anyone considering such lives in a well-heeled 'hood, likely gated. A high-rise domicile would be another site for such
As @tcutter points out, their current market is focused on Europe which seems vastly different from the US market, both in terms of musical tastes and technical solutions. The WB owners are a husband and wife team, while marketing is looked after by their son.
WB has been very successful in tapping into the UK Government's funding models.
Australia has similar grant schemes at both state and federal level. I ran a 12-man project for a very small company and applied for, and got, three R & D grants and one commercialization loan totaling nearly A$2-million.
When we applied for our first grant (which we had to match dollar for dollar) I suggested we look at the average grant value, where the agency would be most comfortable. So we did, and we got it!
On a larger scale, the federal government ran an A$18-billion "Nation Building" grant program to fund railway and road projects managed by state governments. I consulted to provide a management tool to consolidate five separate databases so that overall progress could be monitored.
What struck me most forcibly was that the major imperative was to get the money out of the door!
Government grants - I love them
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I was to meet the Competitors of above mentioned Companies in the Hallways of Hotels at large UK based commercial orientated Audio Events.
There is nothing remembered as endearing about the encounters, the sale was all that mattered, the interaction in the Hallways were almost a press gang activity and when one was guided into a Room with wares for sale, the room was to be closed until the full sales spiel was given. Not only one unwanted stay was to be endured.
The Zeitgeist at the time was where the UK was under remaining heavily under the shadow of a particular Government that was very liberal towards very aggressive marketing and closed won sales. Those who missed the main party and exploitation of the markets, were wanting their piece of the pie.
The ego of the sales person was everything, the better they blended the Company Sales Spiel with their own additions, was where the closed win sales were sought, it was a huge group who were aware of the BS to be endured at such events and at sales outlets in the high street. The proportion of Sales individuals who were not loyal to anything but the sale, were able to filtrate into particular areas where sales were strong and be hit an run as they migrated across many markets from Car Sales to Window Sales, Pension Sales, Mortgage Sales, where ever the best buck was being made known to be extracted they were to be found.
To Companies sales are their lifeblood, which left them having to absorb such a presence which might not have been most desirable to them.
For myself and I know of quite a few other as well, walked away from meeting such faces of a Business and met those who were much more hands on with the products produced as well as being the face of the business, the fork in the tongue was not a concern when having changed how I discovered audio equipment.
Being in a Room with Tim De Paravicini was an education, and meeting small turnover Businesses was a joy.
It does seem the Sale is no longer King, the absurdity of the Sale price is now King. It looks like the expected customer count to buy is a guaranteed realization.
Those who spend monies like this, are paying others to purchase on their behalf. This is the sort of product theses hired services seek out, especially where items are limited, can be personalised and are pricey with a name that is known in small circles.
To the average Audio Enthusiast and one with substantial disposable income for their hobby, Wilson Benesch is a remembered name, not something looked into to see what is in their pipeline, this can only really be because the pricing is expected to be way beyond what is usually deemed expensive.
Maybe £10 000 000 is the sales forecast by 2030 and the investors passing on monies like the returns over the next five years.
How many Investors parted with funds?
How many does one think owns a Vinyl LP?
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I can’t even come close to affording one, but I spent several hours listening to the WB TT at Axpona as well as listening to the designer discuss the features, benefits and journey of its creation. Additionally, I listened to Michael Fremer play and discuss a number of recordings. Although he probably got a significant discount on it, he bought one. All I can say is that it sounded extraordinary. It rivaled the best reproduced sound I have ever heard on any system using any format. If you have a chance, you should at least listen to it to hear what is possible when money is not a constraint.
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@richardbrand ...and 'serial' government grants seems to echo a vampire hitting an enlarging artery, but that's just the major cynic lodged above and inboard of my left ear. 😏 I'd like one of those to go....
Europe...don't like 'EU' in speech, always sounds "Ewww"....Doesn't deserve that...
Has long held mho the gleam of 'refinement' the States keeps missing for the most part. Better roots of culture, which got mostly left on the pier not so long ago.
That 1M$ turntable exists awhile back, we sent 2 out with Voyager 1 & 2.
According to some, 'they're' listening to them now... If 'they' ask for Elvis, someone's' going to respond with NIN and cat vids. If the some are right enough...
'They're' coming here because 'they' can't believe 'some' of what 'they're' hearing and seeing in the fashion done back home....(...and I'll stop 'that' as well)
Back to ttables, I'd like to see a non-contact version of arm with a sorta stylus that reads the tracing with the accuracy of a disc drive. An attempt was made awhile back with a laser version. Pricey then, a mil now?
How accurate is enough? When can we argue over the 'interpretation' of the 2 laser readers' alignment/read pair axial calibration isn't as good as the X-Plott VinyMaster 2b2? (...the competition is Obviously tectrash.... *sniff* )
...and I'm rambling on a Sunday morning,,,, ;)
@pindac Nothing like getting sealed into a pressure cooker... ,;]
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@asvjerry
I'd like to see a non-contact version of arm with a sorta stylus that reads the tracing with the accuracy of a disc drive. An attempt was made awhile back with a laser version
I believe vinyl groove modulations make significant contributions at wavelengths below visible light so lasers well into the ultraviolet spectrum would be needed. Rather like those used for SACD, Blu-ray and Ultra Blu-ray disks which can be read error-free by transports costing a few hundred bucks ...
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@richardbrand Wonderful, I hope Strong Caffeine Coffee in excess is responsible. My own moments of abstract are very much a case of Coffee being freely flowing.
As for non contactless, I'm almost there, I've successfully encouraged a think tank with very knowledgeable individuals about my proposed design for an anchored Micro Drone with a undercarriage that is a Cartridge.
The Micro Drone will be laser aligned to an Off Board sensor that reads its tracking and the ultimate goal is keeping it at a Zeptosecond accuracy to the selected RPM.
I'm struggling to decide if the Diamond Stylus will be bettered by an Optical Modulation reader. As the Optical will detect and read all contaminant.
Where as the Stylus is not effected too much by low micron dimension contaminant. The Stylus friction will be a concern for maintaining Zeptosecond accuracy, but this may be the compromise for the tradition of Gem Contact on a Modulation within a LP's Groove.
The traditional need for accuracy for SRA - VTA - Azimuth - Zenith - Tracking Weight will be corrected on the fly and tweaked on the fly literally.
Disclaimer: This is not entirely my idea, It has been communicated to me through a Parallel Universe, I occasionally find myself in a communication with.
In modern times it is inevitable the World has a future where humans are heavily populated, Drones Tech' will replace multiple traditional mechanical devices.
How much power is required and how they are powered is the concern, once they are proven as safe, more efficient and sustainable, the technology will commence to be the forefront of designs and force the obsoletion of older tech' designs.
Not so conceptual any more, A City Vehicle that does the following:
Drive for short periods on a tyre that is totally recyclable
Cruises on a Waterway on a foil that has zero impact as a wake that damages banking is not formed.
Flies over both Road and Waterways as the main intention of the design.
Drone Tech' carrying up to two passengers as a means to carry out local runs within the City, which is able to achieve 40 Knots per hour and have a 4 Hour Fuel Store.
Almost silent in use and for most of its time in transit is not in contact with a a Road or Waterway.
The question is, would a collision with a Pedestrian or Cyclist when on land be a higher risk of being fatal if the Drone dropped from 10ft - 3metres and collided with a individual.
If the Drone was limited to a 3ft - 1metre fly height when on land, the risk of Pedestrian Cyclist collision is a much increased likelihood, and frequency of collisions would be typical to regular vehicles experienced at the present.
At a 3 mtr Fly Height and roads prohibiting usual vehicles, there is the likelihood areas will be fully Pedestrianised.
The concepts of inner city transportation seen on Blade Runner and Star Wars are not too far into the future.
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@pindac ....I’d be concerned by a runaway microdrone armed with a diamond tip running amok in a home. No telling what other grooves it might find groovy....*ouch*
Personal Transit Drones (PTD’s) are already here for those wanting to try to avoid hitting the local oaks & pines, hedges, and major windows....
"Another commuter found lodged in backyard trellis...." Can’t wait...:(
"Manufacturer sued over Impact Response Unit ( the IRU....pun?) supplied that responds like an air bag flooding the ’seating’ (?) in a foam cloud that prevents injury but smothers the ’pilot’ in the process...." Ditto on waiting...
Space-rated leisure clothes...Satellite debris lawn art....Surgically implanted cell phones (a big NO from yours unruly)...Barcaloungers that take ’vibrations’ to a uniquely personal level that you hope it reads your sex right....
The Future: Live it or live with it.....
Seoul, N. Korea just held a ’space-out’ competition and "The stresses of competition hit a new low...."....
Yes, rancid puns...but let’s chalk it up, as suggested, to a SCC event series.....
Any other explanation will involve drug inter-reactions that are free the first go-round but trigger the ’demand/supply’ sideshows....and a Torx screwdriver up your nose or worse....
I like ’tech’.....I just hope IT likes Me...
@richardbrand
Precisely....but having your TT acting just like your CD player portends the inevitable which is better and why.....when the gear is available to make your SET sounds like a D amp (or a ’G’....G whiz, I wonder where it is and how do I touch it?....) *deep 😏 strike*...and at what cost for a recycled concept done 🤷♂️ right?
Pro gear allows an amp to sound like it’s tubed; the reverse seems unrequired but doubtless there’s an artist that would embrace it like a porn star....
Born like this, I always wake on the wrong side of bed....if I haven’t found the floor more comfy.... *L* ;)
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@asvjerry stated " I’d be concerned by a runaway microdrone armed with a diamond tip running amok in a home. No telling what other grooves it might find groovy....*ouch* "
This is already with a proposal for the mitigation,
As stated " As for non contactless, I'm almost there, I've successfully encouraged a think tank with very knowledgeable individuals about my proposed design for an anchored Micro Drone with a undercarriage that is a Cartridge. "
One of the think tank is a neat whisky sipper, the idea of an alien object ending up in their Dram, was not to be tolerated, they would only continue with their contribution if the Micro Drone was tethered.
Tethering was deemed to be a little loose as control measure and was replaced with the anchoring concept as this gives a much improved control of a movement. iBut it is again proven - "Great Minds Think Alike", or "Birds of a Feather Flock Together".
It was not expected but requests for the Crowd Fund Link are now being sent 
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Better to just have a chip imbedded in your auditory cortex that directly receives a signal coded for those neurons to interpret as music, so as to dispense with an audio system entirely.
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@lewm
I already have a memory system that replays music in my head ... and it seems to be entirely composed of neurons!
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@asvjerry
I'd like to see a non-contact version of arm with a sorta stylus that reads the tracing with the accuracy of a disc drive
Hard drives like those found in personal computers do indeed have a read-write head that flies aerodynamically above the disk surface, kept there by the airflow as the disk spins. Would need to replace the magnetic field sensor with two distance sensors. I feel an R & D grant application coming on.
As an aside, in counries like Australia venture capital is like unobtanium so governments step in to fill the financing void!
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@pindac ....but AI wants to be free!
...since it's already expensive anyway....using us as Beta's to achieve it's goals....
Find the TT on the floor, tugged off the stand by the tethered drone, buzzing around like a po'd wasp.... "See! Lookit the scar that lil' sob left me...."
@lewm , @richardbrand ...Cell implants 'sound' cool, but I defy...
"Runs off your body heat! Automatic updates! Always 'in touch'!
That last part is the issue in the rumours....
Don't Forget To Pay Your Bill Online Promptly....I'm not DOS'ing you.
Wake up where you've never been, surrounded by others just as clueless as you, doing Something in Some Fashion to an object you don't recognise the purpose of.
Whatever you're doing, it's done very well very fast as you feel Great, even though you don't know how you know what you're doing....
When you're done, you lapse into gray....awakening to the Task in the next 'morning' since all you know now is artificial lighting....
Life as a Cellzombie isn't bleak.
It's just Endless.....
...and you still have to pay the bill....
Worse than a college loan on a PhD.
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...been working on funding that.....
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Any government subsidies of late here benefit the Orange Nightmare to the exclusion of any thing or potential step forward in or for others.
Since Twitwit only likes 'music' that allows pumping his hands in a suspect fashion and can be co-opted without any royalty payments to the set-upon 'serf sets' that grovel under his spikey boots....that keeep walkin'.... ( Begging pardon, Nancy S.).
Thinking of a remix of Gabriels' "Shock the Monkey".....
" Doncha' know you gotta,
Snuff the Orangutan...."
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First, I wonder if I would hear the difference between the $302K turntable and my VPI Signature 21 at less than 1/30th the price. Second, I'm pretty sure that it's a kind of retailing law that the higher the retail price, the higher the margin. On a $3K turntable, perhaps 30 or 40% is profit. On a $320K turntable, over 50% could be profit since obviously money is not a consideration.
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I would think you would instantly hear the difference. It has been my experience very expensive turntables make a shockingly noticeable difference.
Second… not profit… most covers investment in R&D… all these costs come out before profit. I doubt with the number sold it is very profitable… but hopefully it increases the volume of lower end models,
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I interpret "they should charge more for it" to be a compensatory device attempting to assuage, justified in my opinion, criticism of the outlandish price. I mean the criticism of the price is justified not the assuaging.
It certainly is not worth the price charged nor more. No matter how good it sounds.
To those who can afford it and buy it: Good Luck.
To those who cannot afford it and will never buy it: There is no need to lose sleep over that decision.
Everyone should understand that there is a market sector which is no longer about the 'what' which is being bought, but about the Pissing Contest. Unless one is enlivened by pissing contests one needn't feel left out.
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@psnyder149
It rivaled the best reproduced sound I have ever heard on any system using any format. If you have a chance, you should at least listen to it to hear what is possible when money is not a constraint
Thank you for your thoughtful contribution. I suspect you are the only one here who has actually listened to one!
In terms of value for money, I suspect this mega-expensive table, which has been subject to very extensive (and expensive) research, is far better value-for-money than stupidly expensive power cords and Ethernet cables that I read about. Anyway ... thanks again
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@theophile ...Well put; at the end of the day. Just because you can own a full-tilt Bugatti doesn't mean you've the skill and snap to employ it without becoming another tragedy for the news @ 6. 👍😎
'cuse...
@richardbrand , for consideration...
"I believe vinyl groove modulations make significant contributions at wavelengths below visible light so lasers well into the ultraviolet spectrum would be needed. Rather like those used for SACD, Blu-ray and Ultra Blu-ray disks which can be read error-free by transports costing a few hundred bucks ..."
...a 3 laser head that tracks height above surface feeding the position (groove 'follower') 2nd to the reader 3rd. Arm beam c/f tube w/sorbothane coating, and maglev X/Y drives....B/T counter weight, lose the wires.
Or go direct to optical in some compelling fashion.
Anyway, start a gofundus, mess with some old BR players...rewatch this....
"...accounts' Got to have Soul!"
Give up, give in, get down.... ;) *L*
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@pindac - no flying cars yet, but where I live they do have a LOT self-driving Jaguars (Waymo) that are completely autonomous and have nobody in the driver's seat. I trust them more than I do the cars WITH somebody in the driver's seat.
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I sense there is enough discussion had in the past few days for WB to use and achieve another 0.5 Mil funding.
Has a Driverless Vehicle been convicted of a motoring offence or a Faulty Tail Light ?
That will really really P off the Court Houses - What No Cash Cow Motorists to feed the machine anymore, who are we going to send to be Cheap Labour to the Prison Businesses, Ah Cyclists will do.
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I don't even equate this to a full fledged supercar. More a over-hyped car obscenely priced.
It's more a story about a vast amount of Government Grant money spent(ie) someone got rich developing this. Now they need to price it into the stratosphere to justify where the money went. At 320K they'd break even by selling less than 20 of them.
So this is the great value of the 5 million grant. Less than 20 people get a turntable arm and cartridge. More sales if they want to make a profit. Do I envisage $100K turntable owners moving up? Not really. 320K is a different sector. 320K(for now) watch this one spiral in price. I'd be surprised if this thing is a hit. I think they'll sell their 20 because it isn't that big a number to break even. I don't see a 320K product for minimal people as a great use of millions of grant money.
If they really have developed a new standard, watch the Chinese tweak it enough to get around the patents and sell their version for one tenth the price. It might be good but next to no-one will own one so what was the point?
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Secondly, it might be excellent. Standard setting in fact but Fremer will be gifted his. In return, his true testimony will sell at least 50 of them. Good for Fremer. Good for WB. What did the government grant buy the populace at large?
They openly state that this is but the first and there will be more to follow: A 500K model? WOW we'll all be waiting anxiously for that.
For 99.9999999% of the world's population nothing to see here folks.
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@dayglow "In transportation is a new Ferrari a better value proposition than a new Cirrus SR20?"
At least when the Ferrari stalls it doesn’t need a parachute. (Just kidding).
Seriously, I’m a boring aerospace engineer working as a mechanical engineer and almost ready to retire.
I look at anything that moves with an eye to whether or not it is doing its job via physics. Holding a spinning piece of plastic up to a diamond stylus and doing it silently isn’t rocket science these days and hasn’t been in decades. You can spend $2000, $4000, or in this case $302K and pretty much accomplish the same thing. For those with such deep pockets, more power to them. When they make such a purchase it ripples on through the economy, so it is all good.
At some point these products become "lifestyle" products, purchased not based on performance but merely to separate yourself from the great unwashed who couldn’t dream of buying one. Fair enough.
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@ghdprentice
Thank you for the good laugh of the day!
"If I had the means, I am sure my system would cost... well commiserate with my wealth."
1. "To feel sorrow, pain, or regret for"... Yes I'm sure your wealth would have a bad day.
I know you meant "commensurate".
Its all good.
Regards,
barts
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@theophile The money from the government grant didn't go to develop the turntable, but the technology used tin the turntable, i.e. bio composites, which can be used for a host of things, mostly non-audio related.
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