The Audiophile Community Has a Problem: Part Deux The Saga Continues?
My original post was just to provoke some thought and to share an interesting article.
Some may have took it personal, your right to do so.
Others had an opinion and that was the idea, here is part 2 .
No comments about Sin as we are all guilty of being a part of the male anatomy from time to time (Pot meet kettle).
Hope this gets us all thinking and conversation continues.
Read the articles.
We need to be polite. Yes, audio breeds strong opinions, but that doesn’t give us the excuse to be rude or snide. One can disagree without argument and even suggest reasons why they disagree without becoming unpleasant.
Do you argue like this with co-workers when you disagree with something at work?
I can suggest a good therapist if that’s the case.
Speaking about tools and toys are indeed 2 different things. While it's OK to argue about the toys and it's prices, arguing about tools and professional work is at different purpose level. To mention about beginner car vs. beginner audio is extremely banal and childish. It's okay to mention that to elementary school pupil, but not to anyone more mature.
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I have observed a broad lack of civility on social media, keyboard warriors and trolls (often posting with pseudonyms) who are rude and aggressive beyond belief over even benign comments. I just left that audio site which does all the measurements, after posting what I thought was a benign observations and then got slammed by multiple people. I messaged the admins to delete my account, and now I will just lurk. |
I still say it's the pursuit of celebrity, which is a fool's errand. We need to stop trying to put lipstick on a pig by sugar coating it so we can be comfortable with it. That link I provided in the original thread kinda spelled it all out. Audio forums are not immune to what befalls every other medium out there. We are not above it and some exploit it at nauseating levels. All the best, |
@roxy54 yep for the most part a good path to take.. it does tick me off to see sheep led down the primrose path by those fawning over gear they have yet to hear…but ? I am having fun today mucking about listening to Norah sing Christmas tunes thru some ancient Mullards…. of course, i measured them with a tube tester….but then i guess that’s another topic…ha i am a coal fired robot in a firewood forest Jim |
As a relative newbie out here, I appreciate the tribal elders' concerns about civility. I can't see that these threads do any harm and they may even remind people that, if we want, this can be a friendly place where we discuss music, gear, and audiophile culture. And as someone who tends to ask very basic, often beginner questions, I also appreciate those who respond helpfully and thoughtfully. This place is absolutely incredible in that sense. |
@roxy54 Nothing just thought this was interesting especially with the other threads in this vane. Appreciate your opinions and if this thread offends…….. Have a great evening. Time spin some wax. I am Robot. |
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@travelinjack, I’m sure you know that the one topic we have to avoid completely if we want to maintain civility on this forum is politics. If you don’t know that, I suggest you lurk a while until you learn the ropes. |
@tomcy6 commenting on what I have seen here, otherwise I don't bring it up. |
@travelinjack How about you just don't bring it up. If you do it what's to stop someone with different political beliefs from replying in kind. Just don't do it. It's not that hard. |
Audiogon forums are just fine. At least 98% of it that is. Much better than some other audio forums. Yes, once in a while you will have sick dudes like the "Cindy" one that keeps getting banned and coming back with dozen usernames for some reason, but that is just and exception. Just a single mentally deranged / challenged dude. Heck, I don't mind Dow Jones and Jason Bourne being here at all. They are real people and having some diversity around is good for the discourse. They are not malicious. |
Being crass, crude and rude is equated by many these days as "telling it like it is" and admired. Those who are old enough will remember the 90's when Fox's format began having hosts talking and even shouting over one another and their guests. TV viewers had seldom seen this kind of behavior on news and talk shows before and it gained viewership. Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh spawned copy cats. At the time I was quite civically active and I recall beginning to see this kind of behavior filter into town meetings where previously civility was expected and decorum maintained by almost everyone. Our previous president was criticized for being crass and crude. His admirers loved and said that is how they knew he was "real" and they could trust him to tell it like it is. So here we are. But I'm glad to see the efforts to restore civility. It is not necessary to denigrate someone just because you disagree. |
I'm on a lot of special interest forums but the only forum I have ever quit posting on is the AVS forum. That was after the site administrator apologized to me on behalf of the entire company. Those guys were ruthless with subjective audio enthusiasts. Audiogon has a few posters that cross the line from time to time but they mostly add a little spice to the conversation. You have to have a thick skin if you want to hang out on the internet. |
All this shows is its individuals not groups. You found a group with the wrong individuals in charge. I had a similar experience. FB turntable group. Hardly anyone ever gets the chance to hear high end turntables, arms, etc compared. Since I had a new Origin Live Sovereign coming I let them know anyone who can make it welcome to come and hear. Post removed, in minutes, no reason given even when I asked. I let them know thanks but no thanks I am gone from this group. Never have gone back. Refuse to contribute. Same exact post, literally cut and pasted into FB Tekton Owner's Group, not one single word changed, whole bunch of people interested and a few even came. Both groups are audiophiles. One just unfortunately infested with and run by the wrong individuals. You say clearly it is a money bias. But who knows? Could be any of a number of biases. Only thing we know for sure, it ain't a audiophile bias. |
It’s actually, historically, the other way ’round. When the forum has political threads..peace tends to break out. Denizens are more respectful and more open to other’s opinions. Audio seems to be infinitely more contentious than politics. funny, dat.... |
Apologies for touching upon politics, as it should not be part of this forum. But this is 100% true. That’s when suddenly rudeness, being crass, crude, and impolite, became mainstream and the norm. Let’s face it. Leadership has an impact. Even if just in subconscious behaviors. |
Here is something I just read today, which I thought it was very relevant to this thread: ———
But, what Trump absolutely did do is drastically lower the bar on what we expect from our public figures. Rather than at least attempting to be a role model, public figures followed Trump's lead: Prioritizing rudeness and cruelty over decency and respect. Role models were once a real thing. A person that, due to success in sports, politics or business, others -- especially kids -- looked up to. And who understood the expectations that such a status in society conveyed. Behavior like that of **** suggests the idea of a role model has been diminished and in its place has emerged the internet troll. I know which one I prefer. The Point: Rudeness begets rudeness. Disrespect begets disrespect. And when someone like **** ignores the societal obligation his wealth and success have granted him, it sets a terrible example for those who look up to him. |
I did not have sex with that woman. Depends on what the meaning of is is. Renting the Lincoln bedroom out for pillow fights. Deplorables. You didn’t build that. You ain’t black. And the, you know, the thing. I’ll take Because you'd be in jail over that any day. All day long.
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Recently, we needed our electrician. He, like many in the trades and in this conservative-leaning County, votes red while I'm at the other end of the political spectrum. As usual, we discussed various issues and as usual, we were able to keep things on a friendly and mutually respectful level. I genuinely like the guy but despite the fact that we are largely in agreement in terms of identifying problems, we do not see eye to eye regarding solutions. So why bother to continue the dialog? Because., despite our differences, our interactions generate good will and connection AND because this, rather than "being right" or "winning the argument" is the higher priority for both of us.
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Read the article and thought it was "spot on". Your county's political situation aside, I love living next to you guys (North) and visit for vacation, at least, one week every year. Please do not allow a few bad apples (some on each side) destroy the Free Society that you live in. BTW, does anyone else here read ASR for the unique mix of information and irony/comedy? Talk about "opionated bullies..." |
The article got my attention, after having tuned out or "tuned down" from most audio blog sites. Most commentary become unreadable. ASR has it's place and so does Darko or the Audiogon starter discussion, each serving a different purpose. Critical reading has become rare, just like critical thinking. People fall into traps feeling compelled to shout out LOUD "I know better than you" and "your comments are outrageous and blablabla <fill in the blanks>" Often missing in the commentary debates, which are (in principle) a healthy method of response: 1) critical thinking and the ability to put one's emotions aside in favor of rational expression. 2) Humor 3) Civility Possible solution is an individual choice to look yourself in the mirror before posting. What do you see there? |
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