OK let's head out into left field. I own a pair of factory custom rosewood Klipsch Heresys. They are very neutral sounding but not very engaging and surprisingly they need a little power to get jumping. So even though they have a high efficiency rating they still need a little power to sound their best. With low volume settings the balance drops away. My favorite tube driven loudspeaker has been the Triangle loudspeaker line. A very easy load. I have owned the Celius and now the Antals. I kick myself for letting the Celius slip through my fingers and I have repeatedly tried to buy them back from my buddy. Hard to find but great with tubes.
Ah the Tekton debate, seems never ending. I’ve never heard them so can’t comment. If the OP is looking for high efficiency speakers Omega’s referenced earlier in this thread are fantastic. The Build quality and cabinetry work is beautiful. Louis who is the owner is extremely knowledgeable and available to direct you to what would fit your needs the best. I’ve heard some of his single driver designs which is his claim to fame, really great speakers. I have a retro designed speaker, Dyna Ten’s. Many would scoff at the simplicity, 2 way design, paper cone, no crossovers but they sound fantastic with my Tube amp and a bonus is everyone comments on how beautiful they are. I’ve had 4 sets of towers prior from some high end speaker company’s and never have gotten a mention on their look unless it was to point out how big or intrusive they might have been. Give the Omega’s a look, extreme value relative to the build quality, personal touch you’ll get.
You have to try a vintage american speaker made prior to 1981 they are the most tube amp friendly speakers on the planet and if you can hear one prior to 1965 you will have even better sound with tube amps and make sure the speakers you are looking at are at least 8 ohms but a 16 ohm model would be even better yet.
I have Tekton Double Impacts as well as Klipsch Forte II.
I have listened to both of them using my Primaluna Dialogue Premium separates.
The major difference to me other than the bigger sound stage that the D.I's project' is the lack of mid bass warmth and punch in the Klipsch by comparison to the Tektons
I use the Klipsch in a second system with Parasound separates.
This is not precise but close on what your experience from your system
Room = 40% Speakers 40% Equipment 20%
Second
if you have heard the klipsch Heritage speakers which are properly setup for the room they are in with its center sound stage and music dynamics and you are still looking for what you want. then Klipsch may not be for you.
I have a pair of 42 year old Klipsch La Scala’s that I bough out of a garage. These speakers were beaten up badly as they probably were bar room speakers of dance hall speakers. Basically they looked like crap.
I brought them home hooked up my system:
Audrivana on a win 10 PC 16/44 Flack files Minidsp SHD - XLR out to a Crown XLI 1500 and RCA out to a 20 year old Velodyne Crown to la Scala’s And YES Klipsch Heritage speakers needs a sub
There was a Wow moment, even my wife noticed it, as well as everyone else that hears them, for me they will be my last set of speakers
Everyone is different, every room is different, when it is right you will know it,
Hello Tim, thanks for taking the time to address my inquiry with such a clearly written explanation. I have been told by some that with a series crossover the drivers are more directly connected to each other in terms of their contributing influence or sonic character. In contrast when using a parallel crossover it is easier to separate / isolate the innate characteristics of each driver.
Or in other words less of an interacting relationship between the drivers. I don’t know if that is a practical reality or just theoretical. Charles
@charles1dad Hi Charles, you are correct and we don’t see much discussion either. The truth is, I really don’t believe most designers have delve deeply into series crossover networks.... I’ve done a fair amount of work and have come up with Truth’s of the differences. So, why use one or the other? Normally a designer uses series or parallel because they are more familiar with one over the other, but in reality depending on the drivers used, a series or parallel could be better than the other. So why? In theory there really is no difference, say using a speaker that has perfectly benign load, say a ribbon could get there, but in reality: Resistance and inductance...... Think of an impedance compensation circuit in a crossover....In a parallel crossover, we series a combination of cap, resistor and/or coil to flatten out a speakers impedance bump. Now on the crossover itself in a low pass on a woofer depending on first, second or third order, we would already add a combination of these parts in series. In parallel vs series, the part would be somewhat reversed. So, in one case or the other, the crossover part would work differently toward the natural inductance and resistance of the woofer itself. So depending on the woofers natural resistance and inductance, the odds are that with one or the other design, we could cut down on the parts by needing less compensation or a better impedance or phase with this driver vs the other type crossover. In my experience, its the drivers own impedance, inductance and capacitance that dictate which type crossover to use, just as frequency response dictates which order we would use. So one would not necessarily sound better than the other, but could depending on the drivers in a speaker in their entirety. I hope this is written in a way that makes sense for all, Tim
My Viking 62 is class one fishing machine. It weigh close to 100,000 pound and go 42 knot. Quit dilly dally with say this speaker so much better than that at bargain price point. Built the best and stock holding Putz thinking about value nobody but cheap or can’t afford stress about value. Who wants echo chanber big refrigerators box for ding dong. I have big Maggie in my gym and looking to get smaller Maggie with rel woofer for boat salon. Happy fish
While I have not heard the Tekton, I can say that matching components to speakers is a big deal, and there is probably a combination that will make them sound subjectively good.
My current journey started with Heresy IIIs and a McIntosh integrated… sorely disappointing. Moved those out of the way for Cornwall IIIs and was only a little happier. A friend found a pair of 300b SET monoblocks for me, and “that has made all the difference” with the Cornwalls. A second set of 300b monoblocks are driving the Heresy IIIs in my dining room/office, and they are doing exactly what I hoped for from the beginning. Many will say, “duh.” But tuition is part of the deal.
@timlub, Given your expertise do you have any thoughts on the theoretical or practical advantages of utilizing series crossovers? They are definitely less common than their parallel alternatives. Charles
I came very close to producing a speaker for production, a 95db 5 ohm 15 inch 2 way. I wanted a very high value speaker and I looked long and hard at producing high quality sound while cutting cost where I could. I built 4 different prototype cabinets trying very hard to get the cabinet stiff and inert while keeping cabinet weight down. Everything is a balancing act. I've sat in front of a couple of Tekton speakers, he does use cheaper parts and he does cut cost on cabinets, but they are well thought out, well designed speakers. I'm sure that if you wanted to drop and extra grand or two into a given model that Eric would beef up the cabinets and improve crossover parts for you. I doubt that he would change drivers, that would require a whole new design, but if you would want to pay it, I'm sure its worth asking. I hope this explanation might help a few of you out there. Tim
@missioncoonery “Facten....You argue the fact there are a lot of Tekton speakers for sale?..but my statement "they are junk,..poorly designed jinky cabinets with lousy bracing,big,butt ugly,loaded with cheap off the shelf drivers...all they do is go loud!.".....you say nothing about,lmao...I think that speaks for it self!!”
Nope they do more than go loud they sound very good and much better than most anything if not everything in their price range. They also have probably the highest raw parts cost to retail cost in the industry. Yes cabinets are not crazy high tech but are sufficient. They could make Magico bomb shelters for a small improvement with a triple cost maybe.
Hi @dsper, The Fritz crossover is absent capacitor and resistors to the tweeter driver so probably very minimalist compare to the Thiel speaker crossover layout. No doubt that the builder can provide additional detail beyond my limited comments. People report Fritz speakers pairing well with Dennis Had 10 watt SEP amplifiers in addition to 300b SETs. Charles
Thanks for the comments. Probably makes sense to call Fritz. Based on the extensive number of parts in my Thiel crossovers and their hard load, I expect the series crossover approach makes a lot of sense.
Apparently Fritz speakers utilize a series crossover as opposed to the more common parallel crossover design. It’s my understanding that series crossovers are generally simpler circuits and require fewer parts. This could be responsible for an easier speaker impedance curve and thus more compatible with lower power tube amplifiers. L
Based on testimony from others on this thread this might explain the reported good sounding results with tube amplifiers of modest power. So most likely complex crossovers probably siphon off more amplifier power. Charles
I heard the Fritz Carerra also off the flea powered tube amp and was amazed at the results. That was in a typical size hotel room. I was ready to buy if I could justify another pair of 4 figure speakers which I could not at the time. Maybe someday still.... THese are not very efficient speakers but look at Fritz website and see how the crossover is designed to provide a very smooth and easy load which helps smaller amps to overachieve compared to the alternatives. I would expect them to go loud enough for most listeners off a decent size and quality tube amp. You could email fritz and get more details. I have inquired in the past and he was very responsive.
Klipsch are quite a bit more efficient in general and I would expect will go louder BUT probably not as easy a load as Fritz from what I have read, so exact sound might vary more amp to amp as they interact with varying load at various frequencies.
On paper, Tekton is somewhat more efficient but I’ve read with at least one monitor model the efficiency may be overstated (not uncommon) and from what I have read typically not a hard load on the grand scale of things but not the easiest either. Fritz in fact may own that title, along with a few others I know of, like Daedelus.
missioncoonery "Facten....You argue the fact there are a lot of Tekton speakers for sale?..but my statement "they are junk,..poorly designed jinky cabinets with lousy bracing,big,butt ugly,loaded with cheap off the shelf drivers...all they do is go loud!.".....you say nothing about,lmao...I think that speaks for it self!!"
Well , missioncoonery, unlike some folks I don’t speak positively or negatively about equipment that I have never heard. Since I have never heard nor seen firsthand any Tekton speakers I am not in a position to contradict nor support your commentary on them. However, just looking at the listings I could comments about your exaggeration how there are "tons for sale" ; 6 do not make a ton.
I had a pair of GoldenEar 2+s. I didn’t particularly like the tone of the midrange and the powered bass was a bit distracting and not totally integrated into the sound. I would never go with a speaker that has a built in powered woofer again. I sold them and bought a pair of Tekton Electron SEs that are similar to the DIs but a bit shorter.
All in all, I do like the Electrons - very balanced sound, and as many have commented, any change you make upstream will be clearly heard. Also, the build quality and finish is outstanding (I purchased the standard finish and it looks great). I'm still looking for the perfect amp to drive them with that fits my budget - presently have a Willsenton R8 with EL34s... not bad, but not what I'm looking for. Think I'll try an Elkit 300b amp kit next.
Fritz Carrera B's performed splendidly with a Modwright 300B HEADPHONE AMP. That should tell you all you need to know w.r.t. their driveability with the kinds of amps you're looking at. They also sounded great.
@mapman I’ve done a lot of research on what speakers I would use were I to tackle a tube amp in the last few years. Have pretty much narrowed it down to Klipsch Heritage or Fritz, not sure which yet for sure.
The Fritz monitors have been on my radar as well. Seems to be almost universal postive comments.
What size room do you think they can fill? I have my rig on one end of a 32 X 22 foot room. This allows me to place the tweeters three feet from the front and sidewalls with another ten feet to the listening position. I have about twenty feet of open space behind me. I am thinking Fritz speakers would get lost, especially coming from Thiel CS5i's.
fritz carrera's are worth consideration for a very sweet sounding standmount with a good balance between lively yet dimensional sound, and easiness to drive with modest tube amplification
Facten....You argue the fact there are a lot of Tekton speakers for sale?..but my statement "they are junk,..poorly designed jinky cabinets with lousy bracing,big,butt ugly,loaded with cheap off the shelf drivers...all they do is go loud!.".....you say nothing about,lmao...I think that speaks for it self!!
My Heresy IIIs (with a couple of REL subs) sound flawless with my tubed system. Great coherent mids and just clean all around. Again, trust your ears with speakers as it's about personal taste.
I'm driving the Fortes with a 40 w pair of Quicksilver amps and it is a great combo. ... Cornwalls are even more efficient . I heard Cornwall IV with the Luxman 10 watt integrated and it sounded awesome. If I had the space I would have bought Cornwalls but I am loving these Forte
I don’t think you can go wrong with the speakers from either company but I would try to audition before buying. For Tekton speakers this might be an issue as they are dealer direct. I would consider doing another posting to see if anyone near you owns the speakers you are interested in and let you listen to them although for Klipsch if you are lucky there may be a dealer near you.
I’ve done a lot of research on what speakers I would use were I to tackle a tube amp in the last few years. Have pretty much narrowed it down to Klipsch Heritage or Fritz, not sure which yet for sure. Would depend on budget, which room, and suitability to get set up properly in there.
Klipsch ! My new Forte IV kick ass ! Cornwalls kick serious ass. Tekton speakers are hideous looking. Their designs look like prototypes rather than a finished product. Plus who in their right mind markets a 2 Ohm speaker?
I could care less about Tekton, but stating " tons of Tekton up for sale going no where" seems a bit of an exaggeration - 6 pairs listed on USAudioMart - one pair listed 5 days ago; 3 pairs listed in April; 1 in March and 1 in January. Overall on USAudioMart there’s 846 pair of floorstanders ; 430 pairs of "bookshelf; 47 pairs of planars listed for sale.
Yet another Tekton post,geeeeez...they are junk,..poorly designed jinky cabinets with lousy bracing,big,butt ugly,loaded with cheap off the shelf drivers...all they do is go loud!.how many times does this need to be said...look at US audiomart listings..tons of Tekton up for sale going no where..get clued in!
Thank you for your response. It was the sort of info I am seeking.
I may be in the "hate the Cornwall sound" camp. After hearing the 4's, I noticed the dealer had a used pair of Maggie 1.7i's set up in an open area on one end of a roughly 60 ×40 room. Now those sounded good.
So what speakers sounds like a combination of Thiel CS5i's and Maggie 3.6's, both of which I know intimately, but are efficient enough for a 50 watt tube amp?
i have been at this pursuit since the early 80’s... after university, making some real money -- always been attracted to the sound of tubes, curing the harshness of cd and solid state electronics, making music sound harmonically rich like real music played live - excited about the possibililties of super sweet flea watt tube amps driving the right speakers - in fact i still have from the 00’s lovely wavelength cardinal xs’s, and cary 300b sei amps that i just won’t sell, not giving up hope entirely...
so it has been 35-40 years, been through many many high efficiency speakers - cabasse, klipsch, zu, jbl, audio note (lesser model), ref 3a, even had avant garde horns for a while -- i simply have never been able get fully comfortable with either the horn or paper driver colorations, or the tonal imbalance (bass lightness) of these speakers
the impact, speed and ability to project and get loud on a dime were always impressive, but to my ear, in my rooms/homes over the years, i could never make it work well enough, especially lacking in truth of timbre of vocals and piano, reeds... esp. when there are more instruments and dynamics in the mix, so to speak
on the to do list now are higher devores perhaps (and do i want to wrestle with newest cornwalls? -- cw3’s did not do it for me, not even close...)
got spatials recently, which are excellent but still not really proper flea watt amp candidates... ugh...
I had both Double Impacts and Triton Ones. I have to say I enjoyed the Double Impacts more. If you move around the room a lot when you are listening they may not be the best. Kind of weird sound when walking around from the tweeter array. Was not ever a problem for me but worth noting. It would be a tough call if I was choosing between Tektons and the Cornwall 4. I’ve never heard the Klipsch but really want to! Love the look and they seem to hold their value very very well.
Hi @dsper, I believe that your interest in tube amplifiers and higher efficiency speakers is a good direction to pursue. With this category of speakers it allows you to focus on the all important "quality " of the tube amp and not be overly obsessed with the wattage it provides.
larryi in my opinion offered a very good assessment of the Tekton Double Impacts that closely match my listening impressions. I heard them in a friend’s audio system driven by his Linear Tube Audio amplifier and my 300b SET mono blocks. I find them to be solidly ’Good' sounding but not ’great' sounding. Certainly competitive in their price range.
I disagree with the comments suggesting they’re outstanding and trounce the competition . I disagree with the comments that say they’re junk. Hyperbole in both cases.
My friend really enjoyed the Double Impacts for a few years. He now has Omega speakers which he prefers due to (In his opinion) better midrange and more refinement. He acknowledged the Double Impacts have deeper bass with more impact. For his taste the Omegas were better overall. So Cornwall IV, Double Impacts or possibly Omgas, all worth consideration. Best of luck, Charles
I’ve heard a lot of Klipsch and could live with many models. Have almost pulled the trigger on many occasions. Also classy looks...not for everyone but nice!
Limited exposure to Tekton, but not likely to buy. Not crazy about big boxes with lots of drivers.
Big boxes also are a hindrance for me with Klipsch. I’d prefer to downsize. Very efficient Class D amps have helped keep me clear of larger speakers these days in that it is easier to get more out of smaller boxes. But.....
I’ve liked the small Goldenear Aon monitors when heard but have not yet taken to the Triton line in limited exposure. Possibly bad setups.
I've heard the current as well as a much earlier version. I liked both. The settings were different, so it is hard to make a comparison.
I am not a bass freak so it does not bother me that the Cornwalls do not do ultra deep and tight bass (I tend to like bass that is not has tight as is the case with most modern speakers).
A. I asked a Facebook forum to compare the O/93 to the Perfect Set. I never got an answer but got accosted. Zero interest in being part of that "community" of charming open minded intellectuals. The arrogance around some brands is truly bizarre. 2. I'm making arrangements to hear the CW's. My curiosity was piqued when some members that I've know and traded with began embracing this particular speaker. I wish it wasn't such a monster but at least they have a classic look that I can put a plant on or something like we did 20 years ago. and D. Can dsper compare the CW to the GE? I'd imagine the CW to be more lively and textured but with less low end and smoothness? How am I doing?
Good luck on your journey- always fun to get out and listen.
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