Its a very complex equation to hear subtleties in a strange room with different gear and so on.
Some of us are wired to do this as a profession.
Eg, Taras, the other half of Teo Audio, his job has been to do exactly that thing. To be one of the best at it, the one called in when all the other pros fail. He’s the only one who give guarantees in the contract. all the others are so nervous about their skill set that almost no acoustics firm at the high end pro level will give guarantees and refunds on paper. They simply walk out the door and refuse the contract. Taras is, IMO, the ultimate acoustics ’cooler’. Hire him if you want the best. He’s not getting any younger and the skill set is not transferable. Peak skill is like that.
Anyway, his job is to analyze the acoustics of any space and convert it to the perfect soundstage for human speech intelligibility, for the myopic and idiotic microphone. Which just happens to be perfect for high end audio acoustics and systems.
To explain the whole envelope or complexity of issues at hand with where one heard a difference in the Axpona room - or not, we enter not just into the science of the complexities.... but we also enter the area of strong potentials in personal butthurt... regarding ego and clan position. Emotions, on the personal level and how this colors thought. And more. Extra ugly bonus points: Music is about emotions so we process down in the animal levels on this one, the coloring and filtering area of the mind, the animal baggage, the fundamental filtering (of all in/out) areas.
It becomes a ’why am I not smart?’ kind of issue. It goes deep into human psychology with all of the complex mess in earlier posts as part of the equation. Hearing is not perfectly equatable to general intelligence, as variants exist like a smart person being physically weak or vice-versa.
eg, to go into the room at Axpona and hear nothing is not all that surprising.
To go into the room and train one’s ears over a few days, then one hears it. One might hear it minimally, vestigially, or even grossly or intensely.
Then... as one spends months at it, like working out at the gym, one end up with what is perceived as a ’great difference’.
Or one might not have the physiology/psychology to get ’bulked up’ in one’s hearing ...or has a different cognitive direction, or hearing design and physical package.
Then... at that point ...one might deign to decide if that difference, in level of intensity or type/nature... is important to a person.
Me? I’ve done this so long and in so may directions and ways, that when I’m peaked out, like an athlete at perfect prime, who is fully prepped to take on the most strenuous task possible (which ain’t all the time!).... I can generally tell what kind of speaker is in the given room at the show (crossover type, box type, ported, sealed, panel, single full range, etc), what kind of amplifier/system, tube or solid state, feedback or not, what kind of acoustics are in the room, etc. All that from outside the room, near the doorway.
Like learning to see waldo quickly in the given image, it’s a skill. The kind that people can learn. We can each complete tasks to various levels and so on. Learning. Retention. Capacity.
Individualism. Humanity’s curse and most potent savior/future.
Back to the partial reviews again Doug? I keep reading how "Your Way’ is the right way. Is this another hook up and listen for a night or two and move the cables or product to another system?
Doug your way, is you way. That is all it is... I don’t think it’s a GREAT way or even a GOOD way to listen to equipment.
49 years of listening for a living, not for FUN, or because I was interested, BUT because it was how I put food on the table.
I learned there is a right way, the wrong way, your way and my way. BUT there is still only one correct way. You or I don’t have to do it either.
AS a professional listener and one that had to make 100K equipment repairs and all the time DOWN is paying 30-40k per day in liquidated damages. You better be able to HEAR the difference and make a good call on part. It is not a subjective thing at ALL.. you’re either taught by someone or you don’t learn the skill.
The same with critical listening and music..
SR has a money back policy. Why would a owner of a 12 million dollar a year company let a person review his product when in reality he KNOWS (not wonders, or is even deluded into thinking) ANYTHIG favorable would come out of it.. How could YOUR ideas of testing help (understand the word HELP) his company?
I admire one thing Doug, you got some HUGE BALLS... Brass I suspect. Your legs must be as big as my waist carrying those big ol sucker around.. :-)
"eg, to go into the room at Axpona and hear nothing is not all that surprising."
To go into the room at Axpona and hear what others do not is not all that surprising, either. Once you are trying to sell very expensive things to them. It is a skill, too.
OMG I went to that Gene creeps website, like when you turn over a rock, no wait rotten log, no wait dead animal in a swamp, every creepy slimy icky thing you need for a lifetime of nightmares, there they are. Wow. I mean, wow.
This will never happen. Gene will not accept this challenge. Mr. $37,541 GOFUNDME will come up with some bullsh*t excuse to try to save face. At least with SR if you spend $5000 you get a top quality cable in return. The guys who donated $1000, $5000 to Gene, what did they get in return? Bupkis... Who's the real snake-oil salesman here...
@douglas_schroeder Your comment has given me the opportunity to once again point out how the vast majority of audiophiles, and even many reviewers, do not use superior methods in establishing and evaluating systems. :)
Haruuumph! You minions of audio. Bow down to he who must rule us all.......
Gene’s comment was totally rude and uncalled for. He is not the end-all grandaddy of audio measurements...and even if he was, the tone of his message was deliberately impolite.
If he had simply asked for some products to test and shared verifiable test results, that would have been fine. I certainly hope Gene doesn’t chicken 🍗 out. He must take this challenge. Else his reputation will be at stake along with the validity of the Audioholics YouTube channel and website.
This challenge is perfectly reasonable. He’s even willing to pay for air travel and accommodations! "I'll give ya some money so you can go out to eat, pay for Uber, hotel" - like Gene is his Son 🤣
I think Gene should take Ted up on his offer. Otherwise, Ted will end up with every dollar that Gene owns. Well-intentioned criticism is one thing ... but falsely disparaging products and threatening the lively hood of another by trying to ruin a business with negative, bull-shit phone calls to Ted’s dealers is beyond the pale. If you’re reading this Gene, wake up man, you are about to get your ass sued off.
About time some companies call the naysayers out in public. After all if you really make a product that does what it claims why should you not be willing to prove it?
About time some companies call the naysayers out in public. Way to go SR!
How much more public do you want!!! Here is about as good as it’s going to get.
We’ve been asking SR themselves to come onto these forums and back up what you fusers say about their "snake oil" mains fuses and their inserted direction for ages. And not one of them responded. Some of us "naysayers" have even emailed them to come.
Like I said, they are "snake oilers" and the audio equivalent of real estate or used car salesman
Again, Georgie ... follow me around for a week as a real estate salesman, and I'd have you reduced to a pool of tears within days. You wouldn't be able to stand the rejection that has to be eaten for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
PS: If lifting wire off the floor really affected the signal going through that wire, then anyone who lived in a house with a basement and had their speakers on the main floor wouldn't need them. Because the floor is already decoupled from the ground.
I have a feeling that it is already decided in the most of this group that whatever that Ted does will be correct and that the other guy will be humiliated.
According to one poster earlier, what Ted hears is not exactly what multiple other people hear.
Instead of offering whatever to the other guy, why not offer it to some impartial observers with no vested interest?
At Axpona 2019 Ted himself put on a demonstration of his products then took them out of the equation....sorry but didn't hear the improvement he said he heard. Others in the room when we left said they were baffled as well.
I can hear a difference between sheets of paper on the platter. I was there too and did not hear a difference.
PS: If lifting wire off the floor really affected the signal going through that wire, then anyone who lived in a house with a basement and had their speakers on the main floor wouldn't need them. Because the floor is already decoupled from the ground.
You can't seriously expect us to believe that wood flooring has any effect on the ability of wire to transmit electrical signals, or if it does, then somehow raising those wires two or three inches off the floor would then defeat that effect?
@jerkface, who said anything about wood flooring? Anyone with carpeted floors, no matter how many stories up, will hear a difference when the cables are raised.
Oh wow, so this is an old thing around here about synthetic carpets somehow affecting the signal in the copper because they were the same material as the plastic insulation on the wire? Also not at all how electricity works. The damn wrap has nothing to do with anything!
douglas_schroeder, I always thought you were a fair and honest reviewer but based on you comments on this thread you seem to have an axe to grind with Synergistic and anyone who disagrees with you.
Why can’t you just buy the items or ask dealers for loaners like the rest of us have to and then test them yourself? Why do you require "freebies" or special attention to trial?
If I had put the pumpernickel on some kind of elevation device, the salt wouldn't have gone all over the place. A riser perhaps, so the salt maintained a greater uniformity when it made contact with the grain.
And calling yourself jerkface because of someones yeast infection, is a bit harsh. I would certainly never use such harsh language should you not agree that raising the pumpernickel would make a difference to the salt flow.
I thought the measurement BS and no listening went out of fashion with Julian Hirsch, apparently not. Ted Denny is willing to put his money up to back his claims not only with Audioholics but us consumers as well with the Synergistic Research 30 day trial. I will be very surprised if Audioholics even responds to this challenge let alone shows up. If they do accept the challenge ( extremely unlikely) ; Ted should hire Michael Buffer to do his boxing announcer routine and then have three scorekeepers such as writers from Stereophile, The Absolute Sound and What Hifi or 6 Moons keep score. It would be great theater !
I think for the good of the hobby somebody needs to step up. I’ve always respected Bob Carver and Ethan Weiner. These constant scuffs that everybody gets into is getting old. Are used to look forward to reading in the evenings what was going on but it’s the same old same old. I can’t remember the last time I actually learned some thing. It seems like every time I am on either I offend someone or they offend me. It’s a bummer really
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