I also saw the Dead at Englishtown, NJ in '77.
SVS or REVEL Subwoofer
Hello all. I have a HT set up. I use it for two channel music, multichannel music and movies/tv, in that order.
After 20 years, my Velodyne (1250 watts RMS ) sub blew yesterday and I’m looking for a suitable replacement. I have B&W 804 speakers and a B&W CC speaker which are driven by a Rotel Power amp, 200w x 5.
My room is 14 ft. long by 12 ft. wide. I use Anthem’s ARC Genesis room correction software. It works great.
My dealer carries a full line of both REL and SVS subs. I would like to buy from him. Looking for thoughts and recommendations from this group. I’d like to keep the cost around $2K.
Thanks!
63 responses Add your response
drlou77 I don’t’ doubt your description of that comparison. Sadly, it’s now quite obvious how it came to be. Please read REL’s actual free trial policy from the link below.
https://relsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000466808-60-Day-Free-Trial-Free-Returns |
You helped yourself. After which ever Velodyne you were using you"ll see soon enough. Is there a REL free trial period? All the best. |
Re: high level inputs vs low level-- I would check some hifi blogs about this. On whatsbestforum.com, the suggestion is that low level might be the better way to go. Personally I have not tried this out, but Kal Rubinson, who is a senior editor at Stereophile, says that low level inputs are better to use. And again, personally I am no longer interested in spending >$2K on a sub that might die in a decade, like my last sub. That's why I'm suggesting the HT-1205 @$699.
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@rwwear The servo mechanism failed. It served me well. My REL S/510 arrives next week. A new chapter begins. Thanks. |
@fastfreight I made the comment up the thread that the REL HT series does not have the high level inputs. One has to go up the line to the REL T series to have that input option.
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I would check out REL's HT lineup. Obviously great subs, at a very reasonable price. After my Paradigm sub ($2000) died, I decided that I didn't want to spend that much (just like you apparently) on something that might die in a decade. The subs cannot be repaired. The REL HT/1205 MkII (get the newer MKII, not the original version 1), which just came out within the last year, can be found on sale, new, for $699 (from $849 list). Personally I think that it's a fantastic deal. Driver: 12 in., 300mm long-throw, CarbonGlas cone structure, inverted carbon fibre dust cap, steel chassis Amplifier Type: NextGen5 Class D Dimensions (WHD): 16.25" x 15.25" x 17.25"
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B&Ws DB series woofers are excellent. As you know they have sophisticated and highly effective digital room compensation adjustments which are accomplished via your Bluetooth connected smart phone. The series includes the smaller DB3s in their top group. A pair of these fine subs is most certainly all you need for music reproduction. I use them to supplement my Wilsons in a large room. The fake home theater soundtrack noise isn’t present in music reproduction. |
Just added the Rel T7x to my LRS pluses. I drive these with a Rogue Sphinx3. I was able to compare the SVS with the REL side by side in a controlled switchable environment. The test song I use for bass is "Sixteen Tons" by Geoff Castellucci. My experience would define the SVS as a rock and roll speaker, in the sound room environment it had tremendous bass, yet lots of overhang that muddy the accuracy. The Rel was as stable as the rock of Gibraltar. My take is if you are listening to stereo, that is simply compilations on the left and right side. They are different, so technically you need two woofers. I bought one, because that is all I could afford $990, this new hi-fi biz, is far more expensive than when I was in the business 50 years ago. And pricing is not relative to the years that have passed. There was no such thing as a $100,000 turntable, cartridge back then. I was a hi end dealer, Mac, Magnapan, Yamaha, Advent etc. I had to retire to live a real life (kids, family, college). Loved hi fi then, love it now. Just cant afford it now either. Two woofers, starting at a T7 like product and up. |
Have 2 SVS subs. 2 channel only, Rock and Roll only. Sb3000 in smaller room, and SB4000 in much larger area. Both do their job very well. I would agree with another post that the SB4000 is really quite a step up. Front LED of settings, plus both are blue tooth adjustable from your listening area, which is quite a blessing. SB4000 also offers a balanced set up, where the SB3000 does not. They also have a open box page or something similar with some really nice discounts, which I took advantage of both times. Great return policy if not pleased. Robert TN |
Congratulations @drlou77 ! don’t be afraid to move it around to what may seem non standard positions. I first placed my REL Carbon Limiteds in the very standard, ‘just inside’ my main speakers. Looked good, sounded boomy due to reflections of my back wall very close behind my listening couch. I moved them outbound, off to the sides, pointed at an angle inward. Bass boom improved 100%. I actually run them with REL wireless, so moving and adjusting them was super EZ. |
Room size does not have to limit number of subs (sonically) unless you literally have no room. My 4 SVS subs measure roughly 14" on every side. They're small, but the combined 4 allows them to be individually quick but collectively powerful. Not overpowering. Bass response is perfectly smooth and tight throughout the room. And my room is quite small. |
Since you already have bass traps, I would recommend the SVS SB 3000. I have a larger room (12 x 22) and after fine tuning placement, crossover and level by ear, the integration with my Dynaudio Emit 50 floor standers is spot on. I listen to a lot of two channel as well as home theater. The SVS can handle anything I can throw at it. |
SVS is primarily sold directly from the manufacturer. They can easily be adjusted and or positioned to sound less desirable than a REL. The REL is a -6dB sub-bass speaker equipped with only basic crossover, 2 position phase switch and volume. Because its low frequency roll off is so dramatic it simply does't excite a rooms standing wave modes and can be located most anywhere and often next to the speakers. The SVS is an actual -3dB DSP equipped subwoofer. If its not located in the rooms standing wave mode it can over excite the rooms modes and possibly sound boomy. If the SVS is demonstrated in line with the speaker and the REL its likely out of its optimum position in a null. DSP is not intended as panacea for null or poor positioning rather to better match a speakers low frequency presentation. If this looks to be the case and you find the REL to be more appealing to you, I'd suggest a dealer is pissing on your shoes.
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rick_n offers sound advice. Let your dealer help you without bullying you. Giving him/her the measurements of your room, treatments, type of equipment you have, tastes, stereo vs HT listening, etc. They are the most experienced at these kinds of decisions. And if he/she is a GOOD dealer, you will be allowed to test drive any unit in your home. Don’t forget to ask which brand will back up service and support the best. That can be a crucial consideration that many audiophiles overlook. Also Nemo Propaganda does comparison videos which are also informative. Ultimately it's your call... good luck. |
@2psyop I watch the video tonight. Impressive. Now I'm leaning toward the HT/1510, I think. Or maybe the T/9x . . . ? |
@2psyop Thanks for the heads up on Nemo Propaganda for sure. @rick_n Thank you for your feedback. I'm going to give the REL T/9x's a good listen tomorrow. Same with the S/510's. Given the magnitude of the discount the B&W DB2D's (retail $4,499.00), I will give them a serious listen too. Listening to music now without any sub and I'm just, depressed. LOL. 😐 |
I do support the REL T/9x given your original posted budget. When you go up the line, subs will generally dig deeper with clarity. Good brands, up the line, will have better constructed drivers, more inert cabinets and more power. You have excellent speakers and really just need to augment the bottom octave. In real world use this I see it as the 25-50hz range. The T/9x will do this and the S/510 will do it better. The S/510 will roll off lower and give your system more weight. It would be unfair of me to speak about the B&W sub since I've not heard it.
When you meet with your dealer, make sure they are familiar with your room. If they haven't see your room, bring some pictures to share. Also, be sure to talk about the structure of the floor and what's below it. This is important to how the sub will play in the space. Good luck and cheers |
Not sure why people are making comments about two subs being "too much for your small room". I suppose if you turn the volume up on both, then the two would overpower the room, but two subs are only as loud as you want them to be. It's like saying a Porsche Spider has too much horsepower to drive the speed limit. Makes no sense. The reason to have two subs is because two subs sound better than one and will give you smoother low frequency response regardless of the size of your room. |
drlou77 The point made about 2 subwoofers being too much for your room is a very valid point by rick-n There is a guy on youtube who reviews many, many subwoofers. He reviewed both the SVS and REL. His review of the HT/1510 is one that should be informative. Name is Nemo Propaganda. Check him out... |
The Dynaudio 18s is under $1799. Dual opposed 9.5 in drivers, no port. 500W amp. https://dynaudio.com/professional-audio/subwoofers/18s#product_downloads Very controlled and musical and gets down to <~20hz The Dual opposed drivers mean there is zero vibration: all the sound comes through the air rather than the floor. It has some built in EQ settings to match them to various Dynaudio monitors: both these can be bypassed and you can set the crossover point directly or my pass the setting complete and mage the bass with room correction software I use it with my ATC SCM 19s and Dirac Room correction. Very happy with teh result. There is also a shinier version the "Sub 6". More expensive but functionally identical except that built-in EQ settings (which you would not use anyway) match Dynaudio home speaker models rather than their studio monitors,
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OP already has bass traps....good man! RELs are favored by many for two channel listening. They have a reputation of blending more seamlessly with the mains then other brands. REL subs have a unique input that taps into the speaker output of the amp and allows REL to do its mix blending magic. The REL HT series does not have this, its focus is home theater and uses an LFE or low level input only. |
Thank you for your excellent input. Great observations. I am going to my dealer tomorrow and looking at the following models: Within my budget: - REL T9x $1,299 - REL HT/1510 $1,699 (leaning towards this one) Above my budget: - REL S/510 $2,749 - B&W DB2D. $2,700 (floor model) The B&W appears to be the best of the bunch and offered at 40% off retail. I'm concerned that the B&W and REL S/510 may be too over powering for my room, which is 12' wide and 14' long. Bass traps are installed in all four corners of the room. If you care to weigh in, please do. My appointment is tomorrow at 1:00 pm. Thanks to all! |
I think many of the responders didn't fully read your query. Your room is small and stuffing in two subs is going to be challenging. I have two SVS SB4000 in my H/T room and they sound great for H/T but it's a much larger room. The SVS subs are nice but they are down the performance chain from your main speakers. Trying to get two subs for your $2K budget won't work. You will be too far down the model lineups. I would get the single best sub you can afford (now) and put bass traps in the necessary corners. This will likely be the best bang for the buck and should sound very good in your small room. If you're dissatisfied, you can always add a second sub later when funds permit. I vote for a single REL T/9x and bass traps. Good luck and cheers. |
I don’t own Rel, but I’ve heard them in a set up running magnepan. The dealer was running 2 t5s and the bass was awesome. Not super low into 20 hz, but unless you plan on playing pipe organ or synthesizer music, I’m finding most times my own sub, which is rated down to 12 hz, never goes that low. The stuff we feel in our chest from subs is in the 30 hz range anyway. Rel does this well, and 2 subs is better than one. |
I’d think hard about this one. A lot of people here have said two good/smaller subs are preferable to one great/bigger one, and in this case you’re looking at dropping I assume around $3k - $4k on one sub when you could have two good subs from the likes of SVS, Rhythmik, REL, etc. for about half that price. As far as meshing perfectly with your 804s, lots of subs can mesh very well with your speakers if set up properly, but one sub won’t mesh nearly as well with your room as two can and that’s not a small consideration. Personally I’d go with two good subs at considerably less or even the same cost as one B&W DB2D, but that’s me. Just my $0.02 FWIW. |
@drlou77 that is a hell of a first show! My first were the two at the Fox in Atlanta in Oct. 1985.
Regarding the subwoofer question, I think SVS is the best choice in your budget. The SB-2000 Pro is hard to beat for performance and value especially if you can get two. Buy direct and see if they have two available in the open box area.
I use the older SB-2000 non-Pro with Revel F36 and it works well |