Sub $1k Power Conditioners? Any Assistance Appreciated...
Hey guys,
I’m not new to the hobby but am getting back in after a decade or so hiatus. Two channel guy looking for a sub $1k power conditioner for my system. Have used multiple PS products in the past and loved them but their offerings today are too rich for my blood at the moment.
I’m seeing a lot of positive reviews on the AQ Niagara line and the 1200 falls into my fiduciary wheelhouse. It seems to me there’s much more movement these days towards plugging the amp directly into the wall vs any sort of power conditioner except the top of the line units, presumably to avoid limiting current. I’m using, at the moment, a Krell S-300i integrated and would prefer the peace of mind of surge protection.
I’ve always liked the component style aesthetic but, of course, performance and value first. Any recommendations aside from the Niagara or is that where I should be looking? I’m not at all adverse to buying used.
Maybe I'm using the wrong term. I'm looking for something that offers surge protection and, presumably, cleans up the signal. I'd heard good things about the AQ Niagara 1200.
You could consider the APC H15. It has some transformer-based isolation, voltage regulation, and surge protection. And is relatively inexpensive. There is also a battery-backup version at a slightly higher price point in case that would be useful.
Looking at your Frugal dual zone approach, I see 2 power strips plugged into 1 duplex power outlet. You say that makes a clean zone and a dirty zone. I thought the 2 zones meant 2 different circuits. But you have both of them on one circuit. Is this really 2 zones? Are 2 different circuits better? Can you explain in layman's terms? Thanks
The issue with a lot of inexpensive strips (including Furman) is they have 1 set of filters. So:
Wall power = D------ < Filter > ----- (outputs)
The problem is that the output can be polluted by other noise generating devices. That is, on the same strip you may have a linear amp, and a switching wall-wart type power supply. That filter only cleans up power from the wall, not from other devices placed after it.
More advanced power conditioners will offer multiple filter banks, to help reduce this problem.
Does this help??
Is it better .... honestly depends on a lot of things. I mean, yes, you could test it and prove it's better, but would you hear it?? That's another story. :)
@OP, I use the AQ 1200. It definitely does a good job for me. When it comes to surge protection, your best bet is to install a whole house surge protector at the mains-That is if you own your own home. Bob
I have Furman Elite-20 PFi. I bought it used for $650 many years ago. It has good filtering and very tight non-sacrificial over/undervoltage protection. PF in the name stands for power factor correction. Typical gear draws current from mains in short spikes of high amplitude. Furman has built-in huge inductor and capacitor that store energy and delivers it when needed (during spike). It is filter for power outputs that can momentarily deliver 55amps and present itself to power outlet as resistive load. Filters, without this energy storage, often strip dynamics from music.
Personally I do not use any of them but I have heard the AQ Niagara-1200 in 4 different systems recently. It did make each system quiet, blacker background, more air, more details and more open. The price seem right also.
CleanSweep AC EMI Filter AFN515FG or AFN520FG
(depending on your outlet) -
https://www.onfilter.com/ac-emi-filters-af-series
Filters EMI in common and differential modes, and separately in ground. Provides non-MOV surge protection
https://www.onfilter.com/protection-from-transients Built for high-noise industrial applications; installed in the factories around the world. Works well for audio - low output impedance does not limit dynamic range and does not add intermodulation distortion. ETL/CE listed. Made in U.S.A. US$589.00 ea.
I had the same question. This was suggested by Almarg on this forum. Total cost: $622 Audience Adept Response aR2p power conditioner used, $326 Wiremold UL210BC Power Strip (w/tax, shipping) new, 91.63 Porter Port Audiophile electrical outlet audiogon, new, 44.30 Shunyata Venom Defender AC Line Purifier noise reduction used, 160.50
If you live in area where lightning strikes are common, get a lightning rod. If get hit by lightning your equipment will be fried regardless of your protection. My advice-put the money elsewhere.
After using a 2000W toroidal balanced isolation transformer designed for recording studios to lower the noise floor of my stereo system, the background was quieter, music were more three dimensional, bass response and high frequencies extended. According to experts advise, the transformer should have higher capacity than the actual power requirement of the entertainment system e.g. 2 to 10 times and much higher capacity is better for the output dynamics and stronger bass. In my opinion, a 2 to 3 kW toroidal balanced isolation transformer should be a good size for most home entertainment systems. In addition, using good power cables between the power conditioner and sound system will further enhanced the audio output. https://toroid.com/sku/BT2000E/ $891 ea.
Purchasing new: Furman Power Elite series with power factor technology. Used: the Reference series 15 would be an excellent choice. I own a big Mac and I notice no compression with the Ref 15: The Ref series has an isolation transformer for 2 outlets and 4 power factor outlets so it can deliver more amps on demand that the elite series so your krell amp won't be limited. The eliite 15 has been around for 12 years so you should be able to pick a used 1 up for your price range. You can consider the higher end Monster Power units like the HTPS 7000: Level 5 noise reduction and 4 high power outlets: New it listed for $1300. Used I am sure it would be $600 or less . The Niagara units and Furman pieces are designed by Garth Powell who is 1 of the leading design engineers for power products so Furman would my 1st choice.
I’m liking my AQ 1200 as well. As someone stated before, it seems to give me a quieter, blacker background. It is rather large and heavy but it is hidden behind a couch. Also using the AQ thunder cable to my amp, as well as several AQ X3’s for sources. To run the 1200 from the wall I’m using an AQ Z3 cable. A cheaper option but seemingly very good is the Furman PST-8. I'm using that for my tape deck, dac, phono stage etc....
I have the Furman ELITE-15 DMi. My power is really stable at house but I just wanted to have the peace of mind with protection in place. I been running this unit for years and its a solid piece of equipment. It’s only been tripped/shutdown twice. Once I came home and it was tripped so not sure what caused it. The other time I was having some work done on the house years ago and crew caused some kind of surge and it tripped. I have done multiple tests with my amp plugged into the wall and the Furman and I notice no degradation by going through the Elite - 15. I think you could purchase any modern Furman product used and if you are not satisfied , easily sell it for not much loss.
When adding the AQ Niagara 1200 to my system there was an immediate difference in blacker background on all music and added depth & slam in the bass and sub-bass range. I use AQ Monsoon power cable from the wall to the Niagara 1200 and AQ Tornado power cables for my main electronics. That said, keep in mind that the Niagara requires you to also buy the AC power cable from wall to unit. It does not come with a power cable so the user can choose the level of quality as well as length for their needs. I also highly recommend that you replace your wall outlet with an AQ NRG Edison Duplex wall outlet. The $2 outlets that homes are built with is a weak point for connecting/delivering all of the current from romex to the connected device.
Can anyone tell me what the difference between the Furman Conditioner Power HT 15A Power Factor and the Conditioner Power HT 15A Dual Meter is? All I can tell is there's a difference of about $150. Their website isn’t a lot of help.
I have asked a question above about the Dual zone approach on your blog. It is a sincere question because I don't know. Power conditioning is my next step in my system/. Can you please elaborate? Thanks
Furman Elite 15 - multiple sets of banks. I think it lists for $8XX. I got mine used for like $400. Rock solid. Get one used without stratches on it and save yourself some $$. All you need is about a $100-$ 130 power cord with it and you're in business.
Forgot to mention - before I got the conditioner, I had a very slight buzz coming from my speakers when nothing was playing and the volume was a little higher than normal. Furman got rid of it - that was my original reason for the purchase. It has shut off when the power has gone out (obviously). Not sure about lightning strikes, but something did go in my amp when there was an electrical storm (I wasn't home so don't know if there was a direct strike). I didn't notice any sound difference in my system, but my ears are not as good/sensitive as some of the contributors I am sure.
I sent my reply to the OP and didn’t tag you. I replied on 06-17-2020 2:18pm
The issue with a lot of inexpensive strips (including Furman) is they have 1 set of filters. So:
Wall power = D------ < Filter > ----- (outputs)
The problem is that the output can be polluted by other noise generating devices. That is, on the same strip you may have a linear amp, and a switching wall-wart type power supply. That filter only cleans up power from the wall, not from other devices placed after it.
More advanced power conditioners will offer multiple filter banks, to help reduce this problem.
Does this help??
Is it better .... honestly depends on a lot of things. I mean, yes, you could test it and prove it’s better, but would you hear it?? That’s another story. :)
This just now: In the grocery store down the street and its storming outside. BOOM! grocery store goes dark. I see the registers blink and come back up. I ask how much battery they had for the registers and the response was "about 20 minutes" . I grabbed a gallon of milk and a bag of Chicka Pop and just as I checked out the register goes dark. Headed home in driving rain with all the signal lights either out or flashing red. Fully expected to return home to a darkened home and/or a tripped Furman. Opened the door and I could here the sound system still cranking Radio Paradise. I still amazes me how stable the power is in this 60 year old neighborhood. Even got a fiber trunk at the end of the street :) .
The reviewer now uses a Yeti 1200 on his Pass XA250.8 as well for even better sound. The big Yeti has fan noise so he puts it in his closet.
You don’t need to use all in ones......you can use separate low distortion sine wave inverters and batteries......using separate charger, as well. You can buy a 2000 watt inverter (4000 watt peak) for $400 or less, a 100 amp hour battery for $150 and a charger for $75. Will power your whole system for a several hours or longer if you leave the charger on when listening (will degrade the sound when you leave the charger on when listening). Depending you your current demands you can get many hours before recharging or you can up the hours of use by paralleling batteries. You could have one battery bank and run separate inverters for each component....therefore isolating each one for even better sound. Generally the big separate inverters will not turn their cooling fan on unless they are running a lot of current. The all in one units need more cooling as they are self contained and have zero external heatsinks. The separate inverters are all heatsink....therefore they rarely turn the fan on.....and you could always get a super low noise fan and blow some air across the unit to keep it cool enough so the fan will not come on. We have brains...we can use them.
Every person I know who has tried this....either the all in ones or separates has the best sound they have ever had.
We are talking OFF THE GRID here. Glorious sound (better than line conditioners by themselves on the grid) and you have the same sound day and night and you never get a power surge (batteries don’t surge....he he).
Yes, industrial inverters and batteries don’t look cool, but if you are smart (and I know you are) you can figure out a way to cover them/hide them/shelve them, etc....or arrange it so there is good WAF.
Better than power regenerators, better than isolation transformers, better than anything......and cheaper.
You might get even better sound by using a super line conditioner after the inverter (the inverter is not perfectly noiseless....nothing is). My friend is using the Yeti 3000 with a 3000 watt Topaz isolation transformer after it. He already was using the transformer and has super wire and multiple Furutech sockets so he just kept using it. He does not know if it would sound better or worse with out the transformer. He went with the Yeti 3000 because he wants to use it as house power back up when the power goes out (in California....when the wind blows above a certain speed then PG&E shuts off power....too many lawsuits after all the fires a couple of years ago). He puts the fan noisy Yeti 3000 in the room next door and runs a cable through a hole in the wall....therefore eliminating the fan noise......like I said before, if you use an industrial separate inverter than you will have less or no fan noise.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
