speakers that are a little laid back in the mids

If you list what you have had in the past it would give some kind of reference. 

Looking at your system I’d highly suspect your Mac preamp as they are known to be midrange forward and lush sounding, and that’s been my experience with their gear as well.  Do a demo of the new Spatial Audio Raven or Aric Audio Motherload preamp and your world will likely be completely changed.  I know the Aerial 7B doesn’t sound like what you’re saying, which leads me strongly to your preamp being the culprit here. 

I would look to your room or components first. I also have heard great things about the Aric Audio preamp, but have yet to hear. You could try old stock tubes in your preamp but this is can be an expensive experiment and usually more of a nudge than a push. 

guys, my equipment has change dramatically. I am now using audionet stereo amp with a audionet g2 pre. Speakers I have tried. Totem Wind, the better one, Magico A3, Verity Otello, and countless others. Over the time I have used Bat tube amp and pre and also Cary tube pre and ss amp. I have tried three different Aerial speakers. So you can see I shuffle in and out frequently. I would like to get off this wheel.

You’ve had some excellent speakers, and I’ve heard models from all of them and none sounded like the vocals were too upfront or on top of me. If they all don’t sound right to you I suspect there’s something going on with your room/setup. What you’re describing sounds like it could be that your speakers are too close to the back wall and pulling them out further could achieve a more desirable balance and a deeper soundstage. What speakers do you have now, and how far are they from the back/side walls? Also, are you currently using any room treatments?

QLN speakers are super laid back in the mids, as are Sonus Faber, B&W D series (although the highs are forward) and Spendor Classics. 

I am using room treatment. I have some behind the speakers and different treatment along the side walls. I'll try moving the speakers out from the wall. I've always used them in about the same place. Maybe That's my issue. Currently I use Verity Otellos.

thanks

So how far were the fronts of the speakers from the wall?

So how far were the fronts of the speakers from the wall?

@soix , do you subscribe to any rules of thumb on that subject, with untreated walls?

The reason I ask is that when I posted my ’B Stock Revels’ thread, some of the feed back I received included a link from @james633 , which was a link to a guide from Genelec related to positioning monitors, and it was suggesting the faces of the speakers being max 25" off the untreated all; I believe the rationale was due to interactions with the reflections coming off of that wall, but I’d have to look at the article again as this stuff is not second nature to me.

Anyway, I am not asking because I want to argue with your input, I am genuinely interested in your opinion on this matter.

And I have positioned them both ways, but I didn’t want to get into my impressions just yet.

@immatthewj Yeah, I know Cardas also has their recommendations for placement as well among others. I’m of the opinion these are just guidelines and that every room and speaker are different and need to be positioned best for your specific room and personal tastes. To me, it’s a balance of getting enough wall reinforcement for adequate/balanced bass while giving the speakers enough room to breathe to fully open up to show their 3D soundstage potential. So I used a lot of trial and error until I found the “sweet spot” where the sound was balanced and the soundstage/imaging blossomed and where the speakers completely disappeared as a sound source. Once you get all that I think you’re done and the speakers end up where they end up. My room is about 26’ x 13’ with untreated walls, and my medium-sized floorstanding speakers ended up with their fronts about 5’ from the back wall, 3’ from the side walls, and 6’ apart with the speakers aimed so they point just outside my shoulders at the listening position — not that this has anything to do with your room/speakers/tastes but just for context and as an example. Any closer to the walls and the bass became a little too prominent and the soundstage lost size/depth/3D imaging, and any further out and I didn’t get enough bass. Anyway, that’s how I do it and what’s worked for me in case it’s at all helpful in some way.

Thanks, @soix , I appreciate constructive input from all legitimate sources.  The room I presently have my gear in (and I don't see moving to another room any time soon) is significantly smaller than yours, so I am trying to maximize speaker placement for near field listening.

I did have the face of the speakers probably around 3' from the wall, and what it did "right" (by my perceptions) was that the speakers did actually "disappear"  and although I am sure it was not accurate, what I particular noticed was the auditory illusion of the side walls "disappearing."  And with certain tracks on certain SACDs, I found the vertical sound stage to be incredible--right on top of me at times (as I typed, I am sure it was not accurate, but I enjoyed it).   (All that typed, I always listen in the dark with my glasses off and my eyes closed.)  What I didn't like is that  with certain CDs, is that it didn't take much volume for a trebley ringing sound over head that I could only mitigate by turning volume down or putting on a different CD.  I attribute that to the CD combined with the room.

I moved the speakers back to the front face being 24" from wall, per that guide from Genelec, and that did mitigate the ringing sound and the side walls and the speakers still disappeared, but front to back got smaller and I no longer got that "right over my head sound" on certain tracks of certain SACDs.

So thanks again for your input and I am going to go back to playing around with a few things, including speaker positioning.  I am kind of moody, and for what seems like an extended period, I haven't been in a listening mood, but I am about to start up again.

Revel F208

If you read the Stereophile review you see they have  dip between about 1000Hz and 3000Hz which gives them a slightly recessed prescence region.Imaging is also not as forward as most .They do not really mention that in that review but others have commented on it and that is how they sound to me.Very smooth and rich sounding speakers.

Wharfedale EVO4.2

Wharfedale LINTON 

My Vienna Acoustics Beethovens circa 2000-2004 have that slightly recessed mid from around 6-800hz to around 3khz is a smiley face. I'd owned the Kef R105/3 for around 12 years before buying them (ruler flat response) so when I'd swap the VA's in and turn the volume up so vocals sounded the same the VA's sounded so much more impressive and detailed in the highs and lows specifically because of the recessed mids. I've bought and sold at least a half dozen more expensive speakers since but the VA beethovens stay in my living room.

The key is finding a combination of speakers and amplifier which glorify the midrange not hype it. 

Sophia Electric has some organic sounding amplifiers EL 34 and 300B and more. The devores might be highly resolving and organic. Not a big fan of horn loaded tweeters, they tend not to have the midrange fullness that I appreciate. 

I tried the Lintons, they were pretty bad

@dpm2340 

I've owned Otello's for over five years and your description of their midrange doesn't match what I hear.  I would suggest however that you get them farther off the wall behind them.  In my current room which is 17'x 26' the fronts are almost 6' off of the wall behind them but in the last room which was only 14' x 17' the fronts were 4' off the wall.  If you haven't, look at the placement calculator online in the newest Othello manual and try those calculations as a starting point. 

Sonus Faber Venere is relaxed quiet a bit in the upper mids/low treble, enough so that some distorted guitars for metal sound overly dark imho. Sounds great on other sources though.

+1 for Vienna Acoustics.  I love mine, have owned them for several years and I don’t see myself selling them. They do so much so well, plus they look great.  

@dpm2340 not only the distance to the front wall that matters but also how close the speakers are to each other. Creating more space between the speakers relaxes the mids. Moving them close together will bump up midbass and midrange. You have to play around with speaker placement.

if that doesn’t help, look into what’s upstream - components and cables.

The new SVS Ultra Evolution speakers are VERY laid back. When I heard them, they were way too dead for my taste, but maybe to others...

https://www.stereophile.com/index.html

I had the Otello for about 2 years and would have never called the midrange forward. I'd say if anything, as much as I loved this speaker, I had a tough time making it more aggressive when the music called for it. 

You might have an aversion to digital? If you are using Roon, you can make some EQ modifications to the range that you are finding offensive. 

Also curious if you have any power or cable solutions.

Great speaker don't give up on them because many I've heard are harsh compared to Verity.

Ohm Walsh tend to be more laid back overall. Larger 5XXX models include 4 3-way adjustments including one for midrange/perspective.

DSP or parametric EQ in general is a very effective way to fix the tonal balance as needed regardless of inherent nature of any particular speaker.

OP, did you try pulling the speakers out further into the room?

Toddalin, have you had a chance to listen to the speakers?
 

The stereophile review was over the moon, but looking at the price I have to wonder what they’re being compared to. There’s a 45 day home audition included with the direct purchase. 

Steve59

Yes, I have! I heard them at THE Show in Costa Mesa a couple months ago. When I noted how dead/dull they sounded, even the rep said that SVS strong point is their subs. Maybe they would be acceptable if one were right in the sweet spot and liked the laid back sound..., I wasn’t, and don't.  The graphic does not lie.

As for "Over the moon" they only made "Class B" in the ratings.

I actually had them play this track on them!

https://youtu.be/dqM5L5JQseI

Revel, Fritz, Monitor Audio can all be said to be laid back IMHO and among my favorite listens.  Vandersteen too.

Sometimes the best route is to start upstream...many, not all 300B amplifiers have a wonderful full natural sound including but not limited to the midrange...You might consider the deVore's, The Baby is tempting me...So many speakers today have very irritating midrange which is by many people interpreted as "detailed". They sound good for a while but soon become irritating. 

When I was a dealer I carried the Sophia Electric 300B's. A great baseline for the rest of your system.

b 

Perhaps another way to go at it: equalization. The RME ADI FS 2 includes a five-band parametric equalizer.