Speaker Width?

I would move the speakers in as close to the sides of that cabinet as possible, but more importantly, I would toe them in to the point where I could see the outside edge of the speakers when sitting back in the main listening position.  In other words have the tweeters facing a point about 12" to 15" in front of your head when reclining back in the sweet spot.  From my experience, the image snaps into focus more precisely and the area between the speakers is filled more completely, especially when the speakers are sitting on the long wall of a room.  Try it.

On the other hand his speakers are 12 feet apart. So, his living room cannot be too small. Besides, as I’ve oft commented, 12 feet is waaay too far apart. Perhaps if the room was 50 by 50...

OK.... so I have read all the posts so far..... It's a small LIVING room for gosh sakes!!  This guy is NOT going to pull the speakers 2 feet into the room.  Any he's NOT going to ditch his hot and/or rich girlfriend... what are you nuts?  And you see that spectacular view?  I'm an audio nut, but there is more to life (please, please let there be more.....)  And yes, maybe it's a bit TOO much speaker for the room, but nothing is permanent.  The #1 thing I thinks you can do now is get some nice looking absorption panels to go directly behind the speakers.  I have built my own, and I've also had some made with custom fabric that looks cool.  Being the bay area, there must be a local company that makes sound panels.  I used LA Sound Panels here in LA, and have some with a foliage patten fabric.  They can be made any size, look great, and will dramatically improve your imaging!   

It’s hard to generalize because different speakers produce different radiation patterns, the same speakers generate different acoustic patterns in different rooms, the listener position is variable and rooms without quite so many acoustic anomalies have a better chance of finding ideal locations. Rooms with no acoustic treatment have almost no chance, forget about it. But for those in a hurry try 5 feet apart. That should get you pretty darn close. No toe-in. 

I don't think anyone is reading any of the previous posts.

Speakers are too wide apart, 6-8ft
from midrange/woofer and 4-6 ft. backwall
8 ft.listening position 
slightly toed in.
keep it simple 

+1 for erik_squires

Too wide should be at least 6-8ft apart 
and 8ft. where you sit.
when your speakers are too far apart you are decoupling the speakers from each other-mid bass,when you don’t have midbass you don’t have rhythm.
speakers should be slightly toed in 
unless you are using your speakers as headphones.

@bclark,
Just how attached are you to this girlfriend? ;^)

Seriously, are you asking about speaker placement because you are unsatisfied with the sound, or just curious how much it can improve?
All the "rules" about speaker placement are to help you predict how speakers MAY sound best; they are not guarantees by any means. My speaker manufacturer recommends the back of their models be no MORE than 20" from the wall behind them. ( I think they sound better at 32") There are CDs that can help You test locations, such as the one by IsoTek. (No affiliation)

https://www.isoteksystems.com/product/essentials/ultimate-system-set-up-disc/

But the best bet I can see from the picture is to get the speaker to your Right further away from the side wall. This would probably improve symmetry a lot.
Best of luck.

The responders are being nice to you. For good sound, you want to start with your speakers 1/3 from the back wall of the length of the room and 1/3 from each of the sidewalls to start. Check out speaker positioning from Cardas, Vandersteen and guy smith. Ultimately you don’t want anything that’s big between the speakers and if you have too, the cabinet should be way behind the speakers and sitting low. Why compromise good equipment

I knew better than to even open that one.

commercestuff,

You do not like wordsmithing contest thread?

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/arguments-devolve-on-threads-to-wordsmithing-contests

Just saying, I've been lurking on this site for a long time, and this is the best, most helpful, and the funniest, thread ever. Greatly appreciated, thanks to you all.

Move them out from the wall.  Closer listening position is better when environment is a problem.  Equilateral triangle is good start, but closer than width isn’t necessarily bad.  

Just looked at your pictures. Nice apartment, nice furniture, gorgeous view! Unfortunately, none of that helps you with how your system should sound. If you really want to get the best from your investment, you will need to:
1. Use a dedicated listening room
2. Use Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound
3. Use room treatment
4. Set up your speakers and listening seat for best sound
I know most others won't/can't do those steps, but the truth is you will never get the best sound with compromises. The room/setup will give you at least 50% of what you will hear.

Tom

Sorry to chime in with some basic truths here. What I see is a really bad listening environment especially for those speakers. Way too small a space. Look at listener position, against the wall. Talk about reflective heaven. Jeez. I recommend storing those speakers for the future house, get some decent bookshelves speakers and then make them sing as best as possible in that space for as long as stuck there. Wow, I sound like Geoff. Sorry!

In the first room I had my system in the sweet spot was incredibly small. A difference of inches and I'm typically not a fussy audiophile about this sort of thing but in that room it was as you say, you knew the right spot immediately and all others were noticeably worse. Even turning my head to one side made a difference in the soundstage.

In my current room the sweet spot is not so small and there are several of them. I don't know why. My room has a few hard flat surfaces but it has 10' ceilings, carpeted floor and soft furnishings everywhere else. Maybe that helps?

Don't know if it's been mentioned in the thread but R. Vandersteen has a speaker placement method that works in my room.  Divide the width and length of the room by odd numbers and the intersection points are potential spots for placement.  

Then careful trial and error determines the best placement - and he mentions when you find it you will know and he is correct in my case.

n80,

"I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. ;-)"

Now, imagine how I felt. I have not recovered yet.

What is the big deal about XLO Test CD?

Is it any similar to a combination of...

https://www.discogs.com/No-Artist-The-Ultimate-Test-CD/release/1096544


and one like this (with a different cover, but essentially the same, it does have polarity check, etc.)...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/293869-REG/TDK_CDC_LBHTG_CD_DVD_LensCLEAR_Laser_Lens.html

Hey, here’s an idea. Why doesn’t someone compare Jim Smith’s speaker set-up method with the speaker set track on the XLO Test CD? 

Another + for Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound.
My setup sounds best with my speakers 7 feet apart (tweeter to tweeter) and my head 11.5 feet from plane of tweeters.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. ;-)

It's love. Just took awhile. : )

Am I high?

+1 geoffkait

(did I just do it?)

In my small office I had 2 desks. I realized that the second desk facing the speakers was messing up the sound. Once I removed this desk, which only contained a keyboard, the sound improved by a large amount.

I forgot if I removed the desk after the GIK acoustic treatments or before. Whatever, the case the 2nd desk is permanently out of the room. So the suggestions people here have made on your coffee table carry a lot of weight with me.

I currently have my electronics between the speakers. I plan on moving everything except an amp from in-between the speakers.

BTW - good luck with the house situation in the Bay Area. The best audio setup I had in California was in Los Altos Hills where I rented a cottage with a massive living room out in the woods (hills). 

I understand the constraints.  I've heard that Salk model and they are capable of incredible depth of soundstage, which you will miss out on.  But that's one of life's compromises, I suppose.

+1 tomic601 Jim Smith Book. The only way to go. 

"Although I agree with most of the advice you're getting, it's really no wonder this hobby dying off (LOL / Kind of)"

That would be funny if it wasn't so true! ;-)

"Is that a bong?"

Sure looks like it...Legal in CA, I guess.

I lot of folks say that a table in front of your listening position is a big no-no. Having been at this audio stuff for awhile, I would certainly tend to agree, in theory. I also have my rig in a shared living space and need to consider my wife’s needs. I put some nice sliders under our coffee table and slide the table out of the way when listening at night. You can see my rig under virtual systems here on the Gon.

Well it turns out I like the sound as much, if not more, with the table in front of me. I do place a fabric throw, magazines etc...on the table. After critical listening I have found the coffee table with folded fabric on it absolutely sounds as good. It surprised me, but is nevertheless true. The table is 4 feet wide, but only 18 inches high. The short height helps. I no longer slide the coffee table to the side.

Is that a bong??

The worst offender in the new photo is the coffee table. Big flat surface so close to the direct sound path is just plain bad.

The ear interprets sounds arriving within 4 to 6 milliseconds of each other as being the same source. Sound travels approximately 1 foot per millisecond. So the rule of thumb is you want at least 6 feet between  straight line distance and the reflected distance.

With that coffee table its probably well under 4 feet. And that thing is huge! Smearing imaging like you won't believe!

What you need is to help your girlfriend out with some better interior decorating ideas! I see a much smaller table, oval, made of say rattan, with maybe a nice round vase on it, slender, or deeply carved wood maybe, anything to break up the surface, and sitting on some nice thick and plush decorative fabric. Lol!

Talk to GIK Acoustics. Great advice, and very very good prices on effective products. :)


Also, look at their Art Panels. They'd be a lot better to look at than a bare wall. :)

Pulled them further into the room and thats about as good as I'll get them, definitely sounding better and a more even center image across the whole couch.

https://imgur.com/a/FNpVWsr

Thoughts on putting acoustic panels on the walls behind the speakers? What size would work well to the left and right of the TV?

And would rather have these speakers now sub optimally and then when we get a new house can fit the house to the speakers!

You won't beat those Isoacoustic Gaia's, certainly not with Herbies sliders. The Herbies provide flexibility for positioning but the Gaia are superior for sonics.

I agree.  That's a huge waste of those nice speakers.

Salk Song 3 BeAT

What kind of speakers are they.  Wasn’t able to view picture of your room.  Need to move them closer together.  8’ to 9’ apart and move them forward from wall.  Call Mark Kreckler at Soundings in Denver.  He is an expert on master setting speakers.  Tell him Larry Edwards sent you.  He is easy to work with.

Really strongly recommend either:

1 - Ditch the cabinet
2 - Get cabinet top speakers, maybe even horn loaded like the small Hsu or Klipsch units.

Best,
E

Seems as though you have decided you prefer to f the girlfriend
and the musicality.

I also highly recommend the Jim Smith book, as others have above. It is one of the best values available in getting the best sound you can from your room and equipment. His book deals with your issues and puts them in order of significance for sound quality. 

Although I agree with most of the advice you're getting, it's really no wonder this hobby dying off (LOL / Kind of)

Mine are about six feet apart center to center, about two feet from rear wall, listening at about nine feet from speakers, cabinets tilted so that I cannot see either side of the cabinet at listening position. It works for me. Plus nobody else is here to not like how they are

A guy by the name of Jim Smith has been advocating a speaker placement width of ~80% of the distance to the listener.  Works for me.

There is more to it than that as others have mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOrZEreKB8Q

Wait, does she have a sister that isn't so fussy? ;-)

Get rid of the girlfriend

I have a similar room with similar dimensions. When my small maggies are in play they easily move to and from ideal listening locations to more traffic friendly considerations. When I have my big Green Mountain Audios in play (each weighs a hell of a lot) I have them on casters that allow me to role them into listening position and role them back to  accommodate foot traffic and aesthetic considerations. I use almost and equilateral triangle when considering and experimenting in appropriate placement and let my ears do the rest.  

Thanks!

i also wanted to note I added Isoacoustics Gaia II fest which improved the sound. Would switching to spikes on top of Herbie Gliders be a better solution?