Solid State Preamp to replace tube unit

I agree with Marco1. Purchase tubes from CJ or a reputable dealer before you finalize your decision to go with a SS preamp. The ET5 is a nice pre. In fact, starting with the ET3se moving up to the ET7, the lineup is similar under the hood. Of course, the ET3SE doesn’t have two main outputs or a balance control and the additional tweaks made along the way.

I agree with those who point out that, generally speaking, preamp tubes will last for years, and that the CJ preamp you own is an anomaly or just cranky product design. There are a lot of fine tube preamps out there. I’m particularly fond of the 6SN7 tube for it’s open, natural and relaxed sound, as well as it’s sturdiness, longevity and relative affordability. A number of preamps are based around that tube, including the Black Ice Fusion F360, the Icon Audio Pure Valve, the Cary SLP-98 and the LTA MicroZOTL. Another option is a used Don Sachs Aikido preamp. I myself use my own version of the Aikido circuit, and it’s just a wonderful sound.  I'm currently using Sylvania 6SN7WGT's in it.  They weren't cheap, but I expect them to last four years or more before I need replacements.

But beyond the 6SN7, there are a lot of great and reliable tube preamps, some mentioned above. I’ve rarely encountered a tube preamp that "eats" tubes. I don’t see any reason to give up your preference for a tube preamp just because one particular model is giving you issues.

The answer is simple; Backert labs. I’ve owned both SS and tube preamps and never anything remotely like my Backert pre. The two 12AU7 tubes will last a lifetime. The pristine nature of the sound will blow your mind. I own the Rhythmn and it never fails to leave me in awe after 2 years of continuous listening. It’s paired with 300B mono blocks and the sound is very detailed but with the realism only possible by well designed tube power amps and DeVore O96’s. 

I can offer three suggestions to consider that are not the usual candidates.  All three can stay powered up all the time:

• SMc Audio VRE-1C - This is one of the most natural solid state preamps out there.  Unfortunately, it is above your price range and almost never comes up for sale used.  However, you can still have most of the magic with either one of SMc Audio's new stripped down versions, or by having them modify an old McCormack TLC-1 preamp (like mine).  These are active preamps with typically +6dB gain, (although mine is a unity gain version) and they provide all the bass and rich tonality you would ever want.  Contact Patrick at SMc Audio.
• Life-Changer Audio icOn 5 - These are passive AVC units using Dave Slagle's autoformers in copper or silver.  They sound very natural with very good bass, great tone, and just a touch of warmth.  Srajan at 6moons uses one in his main system.  I owned the 4Pro balanced unit and it sounded very good driving my amps with input impedance of only 10K ohms.  The icOn 5 uses a switchable input buffer to allow the full performance to take place with partnering equipment of any impedance. 
• Hattor Audio Ultimate Preamp - A very good sounding solid state preamp, and amazing for the price.  Get the dual mono, with AMRG resistors, and passive/active switchable gain (0, +3, +6, or +9 dB) using the op-amps of your choice (Staccato, OPA2134.  Great display, remote, and outboard power supply.  Other manufacturers use their volume controls.

I would echo the positive comments on the CODA 07X. The new FET version of this preamp is excellent. Absolutely silent, warm tube-like presentation, with great detail and resolution. I replaced a Classe preamp with the CODA 07X and the increase in detail was noticeable while maintaining a very a natural, musical sound. 

If you can find used  Krell krc3 preamp. Before I bought it? I read it sounds like tube. The only Krell sounds close to tube? It has rca and balance.

You may want to look at the BHK preamp from PS audio.  They just went on sale for 50% off.  Great deal.  I recently added one to my system and it is wonderful.  It is a nice balance between SS and tubes.  

@12many yes that IS a great deal. However it has tubes. Also I'd like to know what they are replacing it with... hmmmm

The Ayre KXR is probably one of the best out there. I own the non-Twenty version and find it still performs above what can be bought today.

And, if you really want tubes equipment that isn’t fussy, then the Atmasphere MP-1 or 3 would be my recommendation. And, Ralph Karsten is a great guy to talk to. He is on Audiogon under ’Atmasphere’ or you can just call him. He often answers the phone.

B

MAC SS preamp would probably fit the bill. very flexable as well. Used of course. 

Below is a link to the tubes that were recommended to me for the Premier 17LS2.  I believe they are NOS from the late 60's.  This is reportedly a longer lasting tube.  It's my understanding the c-j cranks up the juice on the tubes in some of their designs and that's why they have a short life span.  This wasn't the case in my PV-14L.  Those tubes lasted forever.

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/7dj8-pcc88

@jimbones Agreed. I was hesitant to recommend it because your original post indicated you wanted to move away from tubes. The two tubes are only in the input stage while the output stage is SS - so it is a hybrid design. I am still learning, but am told that these input tubes will last a long time. I brought it up because I am really impressed with the improvement - although maybe a full SS would be just as nice. This is my first stand alone preamp though and as such I don’t have experience with other preamps.  

@allenf1963 both the MC225 and MC240 are legendary for long tube life. I have some of the original small signal telefunken that were shipped in my 1961 MC240. 

I can’t contribute re: SS for a main system, I prefer tubes. I did have a Tandberg Receiver that I liked a lot, I mishandled it’s input jacks, and replaced it with my one and only Yamaha piece: Receiver CR-1040, sounds darn good and feature full.

Hmmmm, sounds like you have been changing tubes too often, leaving it on too long, warming it up too long, need a tube tester to have confidence in your tubes, perhaps lost confidence in the preamp’s innards ........ perhaps have a pro overhaul it.

A set of tubes should last thousands of hours, and an inexpensive tube tester keeps you from guessing if you suspect something.

https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/viewtopic.php?t=911

IF you want a unit without remote and/or balance, you can use a Chase Remote Line Controller RLC-1: either 4 sources directly to it, or sources to preamp, use tape or processor loop for the RLC-1. 

You MUST have the remote, no controls are on the unit. Here’s a new one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335449297443?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=e1a75972-957e-11ef-8ac0-353635313061

Dead quiet,There is simply no evidence of it’s existence except you get wonderful remote power, volume, balance, ....

Oh yeah, it has automatic and progressive fletcher munson bass boost for very low level listening,

I've got 3 of them in use and a spare.

Office used just for remote power, Luxman has remote volume, I take a short hike to change inputs, leave it's balance where I set it.

Garage/Shop, via Yamaha Receiver's Processor Loop for remote volume and importantly, mute.

Main, between tube preamp and tube integrated amp for remote system power, remote volume, remote balance, mute: lets me use my beloved vintage McIntosh mx110z tube preamp with no remote features.  

@tomic601 

1961 -- Amazing. You have been the first person that responded to my post, so I did some online research today on my own. I discovered NUMEROUS comments in Forums and articles that said exactly what you said -- the MC225 and MC240 were legendary for being "easy" on their tubes. Especially those original Westinghouse tubes with the "Made For McIntosh" green print. Many people said they were still using the original tubes...60 years or longer. That is just astounding to me.

I dread the day my luck runs out on the McIntosh tubes. Last time I checked, there were still some NOS available at times, but it always worries me when the website says "Call For Pricing". I have thought about just buying a backup set while I can -- I can’t take the money with me! While I’m in a spending mode, I’ve also been looking for an MC240. I have always been told by my older McIntosh owner friends that the MC225 and MC240 are and were the best sounding amps McIntosh ever built. I compared my MC225 to a friend’s MC275 and preferred mine. Maybe it was confirmation bias, maybe not, but I’d like to hear an MC240 in my system.

allenf1963

buy a replacement tube set now, and an inexpensive tube tester, it will take the dread out of your life, listen without concern!!!

you could install the new ones and keep your old ones that test good as spares. It's always good to have a few spares so you can have music while you research replacements.

test the tubes you buy when you receive them, 

live near 07062, I'll test them here.

@allenf1963 You are welcome. I strongly suggest either Brent Jesse  Brent Jesse Recording Supply or Andy Bowman at Vintage Tube Services. Both have fantastic knowledge, test equipment and in the case of Brent a 30 day warranty on nos tubes. He offers precision curve tracer matching for what i consider to be reasonable $. They will both typically have some Mc branded tubes as well.

The 225 and 240 use a very unique output transformer and in the case of the 240 amazing bandwidth and extraordinary low phase shift. Difficult, massive and certainly expensive to manufacture. The 275 is a brute ( in its day ) but imo lacks the 240 finesse. Finally… the 240 i run has been lovingly modified w HK style regulators and a bunch of Russian paper in oil capacitors… photos on my vintage system page

have fun.

The MC240 is a nice amp.  Rich, solid sound.  I had a pair of the monoblocks years ago and wish I'd never sold them.  I wouldn't worry about NOS tubes too much.  There are plenty of good new-manufacture tubes available, though they sure aren't cheap. ;-)

@tomic601 -- I have bought from Brent Jesse when I was getting tubes for my new Reisong A10 (absolutely amazing little amp -- I saw a review by Steve Guttenberg and thought "What the hell".  It cost me a total of $345 and that included shipping!  Paid another $120 for upgraded tubes.  Awesome amp for my bedroom streaming system).  I looked at your pictures...beautiful.

@elliottbnewcombjr -- I agree with your comment!  I try to keep a back up set of tubes for all my amps and preamps -- the MC225 is the only one I haven't purchased them yet.  Your suggestion makes great sense...start using the new set and keep the originals as back ups/nostalgia.

@dogearedaudio -- I bet those monoblocks were sweet.  I've seen a couple for sale and they aren't cheap!  And the tubes aren't either!

@ Jimbones

My personal experience - I have owned and loved playing an Ayre K-5xeMP preamp for many years.  Eventually, I wanted to try a good tube preamp and bought a ARC Ref 6SE.  

A used Ayre K-5xeMP now costs 1/10th of the new ARC, but is surprisingly good for the money. It is different than the ARC, but it has the clarity, tone and voicing of a high-end preamp, but different sounding than the ARC (SS has a little faster attach and decay).

At this level, you may want to demo a few to see which provides the best sound (to your ears, that day) with YOUR other gear.  If I were buying a used SS pre, I would also look at Pass and Classe, yet knowing what I know, I expect that the Ayre outperforms, dollar-for-dollar. 

Have you tried Accuphase Pre in the use market? The sound of Accuphase is very seductive, part SS and part Tube. I think you can get a used pre around your budget. I don't have their pre but I have their amps. Both class A and AB are both espectacular when I compare them with my McIntosh MC611 and MC1502 tube. A lot of detail without being harsh or analytical. I heard their Pre are the same. 

@rubicon15 just bought some new Teslas. Lets see how they work out. In the past i used to buy from Andy at ATS and Brent Jessee. They are good but there is no guarantee you are getting new tubes and most are older used tubes. That may be why I get shortened life

@inagroove Would you still consider Classe? I heard they are out of business again. Also, I heard that the engineers that they had working just before they closed was to finish some work so I am suspicious that their efforts may not be their best.

@ jimbones

Sorry to hear of Classe's demise.  I understand they were purchased, a few years ago...  In that case, only consider them if you have access to a great repair center.  SS systems are long-haulers, but eventually they need repair.

In that vein, I had Ayre upgrade the capacitors in my amp.  They were easy to work with and did a great job.

At your price point, you will have lots of great gear to choose from, particularly used gear.  Many have Ayre and Pass trade-ins to choose from...  Some AG folks are easy to work with, as well.

Good luck!

Coda and Luxman are both good suggestions if you really have to go the SS route. The Aric Audio Motherlode is the best consideration if you still want the tube performance and can live with the nominal tube maintenance. 

Take a hard pass on Pass preamps. I have owned both the XP 20 and XP30 and they pale in comparison to their amps. The sound is anemic, sterile, and far from musical.

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the good suggestions. I am in a good place in that I dont have to give up my tube equipment. So I dont lose any of that magic. When I go to SS, if I dont like it, I can always go back to tube. I am not so sure I wont like a good Pass preamp..I think I could live with it LOL!!!

I would not hesitate to consider a very good DAC. Bricasti is excellent and there are sure to be others. The Bricasti that I had has the inputs you require, a very versatile remote and offers so much more then a simple preamp. So rather then pay for a good preamp and then wonder if you DAC is no so good, worth a try. 

Fewer interconnects as well. 

@sounds_real_audio I have a Holo Spring3 DAC. Not sure if that qualifies as upper echelon but i think it does...

@jimbones I did really like the Pass XP-22, just couldn't justify having two preamps. My greatest issue was the more tightly drawn images, this means outer edges of images more defined, with my Coincident pre,  images more slightly blend  with other images on soundstage, more bloom is how some describe it. The Pass is highly resolving/transparent/involving, highs will probably sound more extended vs CJ or most tube pre. 

Pass didn't sound sterile or anemic in my setup. I will say it didn't have the harmonic textures or micro dynamics of my Statement pre.

Update: I just got a Tesla tube. Sounds amazing. Probably the best sound Ive ever gotten from the CJ. The only issue is when I change volume, the relays make the tube ring slightly. For now it is something I will tolerate  because it sounds so good. I now have great suggestions for SS preamps and will keep an eye out for a good deal.

I use a vintage Pioneer SA-1000 integrated amplifier as a preamplifier using its Pre-Out.  Connected to a Reisong A10 tube amplifier for stereo, or a custom Alan Eaton mono amp, the sound is beautiful.

I run a Premier 14 in my main system and haven't needed to change a tube in years - wonder why you are having issues?  (My Premier 11a power amp in the same system has hit a spate of Chinese tubes that haven't been as reliable as the Gold Lions, though)

Gard to suggest a solid state preamp that has the sound of a tube preamp!  Maybe a Klyne?  SK5 or 5A?

All. I believe my issue is that I purchased some of my tubes on ebay and some as "pulls" from well known tube suppliers. Now the tube suppliers are not at fault because when they were tested they were fine. BUT, they were not NEW. Thats not on them Its on me. I now will only purchase new tubes and see how that goes. To Be continued

I believe the Philps PCC88 tube that I linked earlier (Tube Depot) is/was being sold by c-j.  If I'm not mistaken, I was told the c-j buys that particular tube.  Below is a link from a post on another forum. That was one person's experience with tube rolling with the ET-5.  From what I've read, it is harder on tubes than some of the other c-j preamps.  The tubes in my PV-14L lasted for 10+ years.  I didn't have the Premier 17LS2 long enough to burn through any tubes. 

I am reporting back as promised. The tube I am using is the Philips E88CC, a NOS military tube from the 1960s. Jeff at cj can supply them. They are the best tube overall that I have tried. They sound warmer overall than the EH and hold up just as well. The EH tube is good too, sharper, brighter.
The Gold Lion 6922 sounded great, perhaps the best of all, but it got noisy very quickly.

jimbones

if it has a volume control then should be easy to try it out. take the preamp out of the system. 

I too, got tired of the hassle of tubes. I went with a SimAudio Moon P7. For me, it was a great choice as it checks the boxes of what I like.     

I owned tube preamps for many years. CJ Premier 14, then I moved to Audio Research. My last ARC preamp was the Reference 3 and I loved it, but did not love having to pull it out of my system to change the tubes. 

I found a Pass Labs XP-30 (MSRP $16K) used for about $6K, so I jumped on it. The sound out of this preamp is every bit as clear and musical as the tube preamps. But it is pricey. However, Most people seem to be purchasing the two-piece (mine is a three-piece) Pass preamp for about $10K. Still expensive, but I wouldn't have any concern about buying one used. Pass makes very solid products. 

And I actually must admit that I like the Pass preamp more than the tube preamps I'd fallen in love with. I called my neighbor over to hear it and immediately he commented on the clarity of the new preamp and my system. It's an improvement.

Actually, the early solid-state CJ preamps had mucu of the 3-D quality that CJ is famous for.  In addition, from the old days, the Audionics BT-2 pramplifiers sound was modeled on the tube Audio Research SP-6 line of tube preamps and carries it off very well.  I don't know much about modern SS Preamps, but the Adcom 565II received a very fine recomendation from Anthony Cordesman, one of The Absolute Sound's original (and in my opinion, best) reviewers.

To my taste, it would be hard to find a solid state amplifier that fully substitutes  a tube amp features. McIntosh solid state amplifiers tend to sound quite warm. Just for fun, you can also try a class D amplifier, you may like the result. 

I'm using the same tubes for years, and it is strange to me that you need to change them each 3 months. Perhaps you set very high bias or there is something wrong with your (pre)amplifier (preamplifier tubes normally last too long). 

Sorry if I missed it but what does Jeff Fischel at C-J have to say about your noisy tube issues and does he have a recommended tube for you?

Since you are already in the rarefied heights of CJ, I would suggest McIntosh C55 as a starting point. It seems to have everything you want.

Less expensive, but not budget-level, would be Pro-Ject Pre-Box RS2, which is balanced I/O, has a dual channel DAC and a selectable tube output (for speakers) and a headphone amp (ss), all in a small form factor.

SPL

Ayre ... over the past 10+ years I've owned the K5-Xemp, the KX-5 Twenty and now the KX-R Twenty.  They were all on the warm side and what changed as I upgraded was resolution.

If you can find a used Krell KCT you will have found one of the most sublime preamplifiers ever designed.

I presently own a Mola Mola Makua preamp that is priced WELL below its weight. It’s not inexpensive at around 15k. It can support up to five turntables I believe. It’s every bit as good as anything I’ve heard in my life and maybe you can find one used.  I have a dealer friend who doesn’t handle the line but knows it intimately through other friends of his and states that one must spend over $35,000 to get anything that sounds better.  

If you can find a used Krell KCT you will have found one of the most sublime preamplifiers ever designed.

I presently own a Mola Mola Makua preamp that is priced WELL below its weight. It’s not inexpensive at around 15k. It can support up to five turntables I believe. It’s every bit as good as anything I’ve heard in my life and maybe you can find one used.  I have a dealer friend who doesn’t handle the line but knows it intimately through other friends of his and states that one must spend over $35,000 to get anything that sounds better.  

@jimbones Not sure how far away you are to ship it in - I wonder why you might not consider sending in your current preamp to CJ for a checkover. Maybe they can test, check, make recommended updates?,

My main system is all tube preamp / mono tube amps. I had been searching past few years for a ClassA Pass/Forte’ F44 preamp to match my Pass/Forte 3/1A Class A amplifier in my other system. Found one, have been trying it on rotation this year. Sounds nice for sure. When I swap back in my all tube preamp with the Class A solid state amp there can be this added layering and 3D dimension effect that occurs. I credit the 6SN7 tube preamp. Has its own sound like your CJ gear. Swapping back and forth between the two different types of preamps helps to realize the differences. FYI, I’ve chatted with Nelson about this SS vs Tube preamp topic some a few years back. As I understand it, it’s one of the reasons he came up with the Korg B1 flat tube DIY preamp kit. It offers an option to explore for Pass amp owners. I’d be curious to know if CJ can help you or not to investigate more.

@coppy777 Last time I spoke to Jeff was about my Power Amp tubes. Jeff is a funny guy (not ha ha funny) I think I caught him on a bad day. Seemed temperamental. I had asked if I can put KT120 in my Premiere 12 and he said "absolutely not" Yest he has specifically told other P12 owners it is ok to do so. I am perplexed. Anyway back to the pre, I am going to go with the recommendation that he told another CJ owner about the Philips tube. So far the Tesla sounds amazing, definitely the best I have heard in my system so I will definitely be buying another one for my stash. 

@jimbones do you have a copy of your original CJ owners manual for your version/series/serial numbers of the Premier 12 amps by chance? I’ve run across this same type of KT120/KT150/KT170 tube use confusion [with other manufacturers] about when you can/cannot run these larger output tubes where [for example] later versions might have had the larger power and output transformers to support the larger output tubes. Sure they might work and play, however is Jeff possibly referring to potential damage that might occur for your particular amps and serial numbers by chance - worth reconfirming. There may be a reason he said no.

Found this on the CJ forum, yes, some are running KT120s in their Premier 12s. A friend of mine has Premier 12s and still runs the 6550s in his fwiw. https://conradjohnsonowners.com/viewtopic.php?t=2320

@decooney yep I initiated that thread. Jeff did not ask me the serial numbers and as far as I know there was only one version of P12. Unless you sent it back to the factory specifically for the Cap upgrade. He does not change out the transformer in that upgrade. In fact the guy I bought the amps from ran it with KT120's in it before he sold it to me!! For some reason I am a bit nervous about putting in KT120, my luck the unit will blow up lol

Different output tubes will certainly sound different but will not increase the amplifier's output. The same energy in produces the same output.  KT 120s can replace those tubes but as you get to the KT150 and especially the KT170 the electrical requirements of the tubes are enough different that unexpected things might happen in some circuits.  So change them only for the sound difference, not performance enhancements.