Should people with no turntable or reel to reel be considered audiophiles?
Just like those driving a Porsche SUV can join PCA (digital audio fans can join Audiogon) but are certainly not Porschephiles unless they also own a coupe (Panamera owners I guess gets a pass here).
Please respond with a yes or no and we'll tally a vote for the first 100 responses.
Vinyl fetishism is one thing that you cannot argue with Nyquist-Shannon theorem.... :)
I dont give a dam about the real motivation of the OP, I dont read soul, and I have answered his question, supposing that he want an answer and a discussion with me and others.... You corrected his view with yours but calling him names is not good politic....
I dont like hypocrites, class me with the idiots....I prefer that.... Thanks for the reclassification.... My best to you ….
Zeppelin does make really good (functional) transmissions although I do prefer manual. I have no idea how they work, though. Do not burn me at stake, please.
Now, speaking of Zeppelins, what really happened to Hindenburg?
I’ve been using some of these threads as a journal, but also as a joke diary, if I have any thoughts or frustrations. As I mentioned I’m pursuing a career in standup comedy. It helps to come here and have someone to talk to but I think I felt better when I was locked up in the hospital.
From what I remember about it my childhood was pretty normal and I was a happy child living at home with my parents with the exception of their drowning attempts.
Sorry oldhvymec, no Jesuits for me. I save my flights of fantasy for the audiophile world :-)
Sort of funny oldhvy, I am standing up for the oppressed, the belittled and the denigrated in this thread, and you call me "rude". Perhaps it is you that has your priorities wrong and your morals out of line. If you consider calling out the bad act in harsh tones, worse than the act itself, I can’t help you. Maybe that is the problem with the world today. Too many people worried about what "sounds" right, and not enough that worry what is right :-)
"
Turntables are automatic watches, CDs, or anything stored in a file are defined by individual 1s or 0s. Not continuous. "
unknowledgeable man that soko: his brain is not " continuous " its comunication is through impulses and he listen through an ADC ( Analog to Digital Converter. ).
So , he think a turntable is continuous. In spanish he is a " pendejo " to think that way.
I gave up gear and only listen to live music. It's what most of us are chasing. I used this same logic when I gave up golf; if the object of the game is to get the lowest score....then I win.
Lotus Europas were sort of plastic, and maybe drive well...but after seeing a new one burn up years ago (fuel leak I imagine) it looked like it had melted into the street...actually had known the guy who owned it and couldn't say anything...sad...
Such crazy details sometimes increase the appeal of things. Kind of like prices of Cygnet going up now and it becoming a desirable car. It is beyond me why. Europa have been a crappy car, but it was my Matchbox when I was very little so it could not be uncool. To make it worse, I was dreaming of seeing one last night. I should stop reading audiogon.
"The premium supermini market is a good place to be at the moment but
Aston got it wrong in thinking putting a grill and a fancy interior on
what was basically a Toyota iQ would make people buy it," he said."
Turns out customers are not all as stupid as many marketers think ... only about 150/yr of them for the Cygnet.
Yep, they did not buy many of them, but recently the prices of used ones apparently started going up. I think I read that they are at the level of what they were when new but I may be wrong. Being an initially small lot may add to the value despite no real advantage. I think that the main idea behind building them was for some legal requirements.
Which reminds me there is one of them that got Q-ed with a different engine. I think some 400 hp. Maybe less but still something monstruous. Seems like a very powerful bicycle.
Raul - calling something someone says is stupid is still a personal attack. Not sure what "his brain is not continuous" means, but certainly I sleep, so I guess that's not a personal attack. You are certainly encouraged to ADD to the discussion by disagreeing with points.
Also, I don't speak Spanish fluently, but I bet the word "pandejo" is a personal attack. Also please correct your grammar in your posts.
"unknowledgeable man that soko: his brain is not " continuous " its comunication is through impulses and he listen through an ADC ( Analog to Digital Converter. ).
So , he think a turntable is continuous. In spanish he is a " pendejo " to think that way."
Please put an s or es at the end of a verb when appropriate.
"people who buy Porsches for prestige typically don’t even know what PCA is. But every one in PCA is not a Porschephile. Just like every Audiogoner is not an asidiophile.
While you are in the correct grammar mode, could you start sentences with a capital letter and correct "asidiophile"?
Sorry for the typo. I believe your quote of me was from the middle of a sentence. If not, that was also a typo.
Now I have to be a biologist. How about Audiology, Psychoacoustics (I think that's what it's called), and for that matter Neurology and Psychology.....come on guys, you're getting too technical. I guess my brain is continuous.
Typos happen. It was from the beginning of the sentence. It was just a reminder not to be mean to people. In particular, when they are much more proficient in your language than you are in theirs. Your English grammar is lacking, too, and nobody is picking on it.
roberttdid
: Attacking someones character for supplying the forum with a question that allows people to get involved and share... says more about you and YOUR character! Nuf said.
YES to the question.LP's: it's great to have the tactile connection to the media... and awesome to know where a song is on a record.CD's: There's definitely a disconnection on these shiny little discs. Due to frequent moving and space, many years ago... I let go of my LP's. I took my YBA CD II over to a friends. We compare the YBA and his TT on his ($50k -$70k) system. NO CLEAR WINNER. they were both absolutely amazing... just different.
rauliruegas10,073 posts06-17-2020 11:35amThe human been brain work through impulses, very fast impulses ( one after the next. ) but separated in between.
>>>>I totally agree. The human bean brain works through impulses. Many audiophiles hear via impulses through the ears but separated In between by the vast emptiness of space.
"Vinyl pressings are not a precise replication of the audio wave recorded in the master"
Think about the physics of a needle bouncing around on a relatively heavy plate of plastic, compared to cd, with an abundance of wow and flutter, pop and scratches, wearing down every time it is played.
It is ok to PREFER vinyl but it is it not even close to cd in terms of accuracy and reproducibility.
Not only vinyl and cd are too much different to be really compared, especially if we use all rung of the scale for the possible gear; but no real event can be compared with a recorded event, because they are completely different experience... We must enjoy each for what it is, not for what it is not....
@andera So let me get this right. You think there should be a discussion on a "requirement" for entry to the hobby, that has absolutely no necessity to enjoyment of said hobby, and the concept of which, was based on, by one persons own inadvertent admission, their ignorance w.r.t. how many pieces of equipment in the hobby actually work? Do you also advocate for tennis clubs where members must swear their allegiance to old narrow tennis racquets? I am trying to understand where you draw the line? How about an automobile club, where all things about automobiles of all types and brands are appreciated, but to be a member, you must own an MG ... even though the club is not an MG club at all, it is just a general automobile club. Maybe we should go with the traditional definition of "audiophile" as one who pursues accuracy in audio reproduction (not their own personal taste, but accuracy), in which case, no one two talks about vinyl "perfection" would be included.
if you’re one of those who enjoys the sound of digital more power to you. If you’re just a listener and not an enjoyer I will let you off the hook. Analog is the heroin. Digital is the heroin substitute, when you can’t get the real thing. You know, when your dealer is in quarantine or whatever. 🤗 Enjoy the music substitute! 😬
Maybe we should go with the traditional definition of "audiophile" as one who pursues accuracy in audio reproduction (not their own personal taste, but accuracy), in which case, no one two talks about vinyl "perfection" would be included.
I dont want to discuss anymore the original question of the OP because this question dont make much sense for me...
This thing said, what is your definition of accuracy? Accuracy relative to a measuring apparatus or to the subjective hearing history experience of listeners? Dont answer I guess what you will say.....You already wrote it for sure....But who want to exclude a vinyl afficionado of an audiophile club? Nobody for sure.....
:)
When I make my choice about gear I look for the numbers and accuracy, and impedance compatibility etc...But at the end like any music listener I vouch for my ears judgement with or without numbers accuracy and I vouch for my medium of choice, be it vinyl or digital ....
«I never choosen my wives for their relative accuracy compared with the golden ratio» -Groucho Marx
"Digital is the heroin substitute, when you can’t get the real thing. Your dealer is in quarantine or whatever. 🤗"
For whatever reason, I noticed that news about some drug busts often mention "digital scale". That much about above analogy. Wait, did I just say "analog"?
"...a search of his home uncovered yet more of the drug, and digital scales..."
You will find @mahgister , that I will never fault anyone for their personal preference w.r.t. audio. If you prefer the sound of vinyl, I will not fault that choice, and in my writing you will note that I do not. However, if you start spewing about the "superiority" of vinyl, especially it being "technically" superior, then yes, I will call out that falsehood ... but I may even note that the analog signal processing of "vinyl" may either simulate an environment that is pleasing and/or allow the ears/brain to extract something in the recording dependent on the playback environment.
You know what is funny to me @mahgister, is that some audiophiles rate sources on this scale from worst to best: Digital (any digital), Vinyl, high quality Analog Tape. One of these does not belong, and it is not digital, it is vinyl. High quality analog tape sound very similar to high quality digital, and if not for the slight hiss of analog tape, it would be hard to tell the difference most of the time. Vinyl on the other hand, due to that "analog processing", is a much different beast.
Be careful friend, these vinyl / CD wars have disturbed many an audiophile's peace of mind for decades.
Probably even older than the ongoing pernicious sapping cable debates, but certainly younger than the almost timeless solid state v tube arguments which seem to have reached a somewhat uneasy detente between the opposing camps.
Admittedly this analogue/digital debate, for that's what it is, cannot be compared to, or put in the same league as the infamous “Father, Son and Holy Ghost” conundrum which befuddled many a christian for centuries, but it still comes with a certain risk.
I've witnessed this war from it's beginning, slightly preceding the actual arrival of the upstart Compact Disc. Hostilities escalated immediately.
Subsequent decades have seen both camps arguing tirelessly the perceived defects of the other with no quarter given, and not much taken.
A certain Michael Fremer could be said to be the figurehead for the vinyl camp whilst the digital camp seems to lack a direct counterpart, although it's not short of advocates of course.
These objectivist/ subjectivist debates operate somewhere outside both the parameters of logic or of measurement. They can be safely classed as arguments personal experience and faith.
If you will permit me a small confession, I will admit to have been both sides of the argument at one time or another. I found peace of mind and reconciliation eventually by accepting that whilst analogue is often superior in practice, it's digital that's superior in principle.
That seems to keep both sides happy and persuaded enough not to attempt to flame me at the stake as a heretic. But not always.
In any case my trouble is nothing. You should have seen the grief Peter Aczel used to get a few decades back. No one is immune in these divisive times. Even an esteemed figure such as Harbeth's Alan Shaw is regularly mocked and threatened with the online inquisition. Things can get very nasty indeed.
You will find @mahgister , that I will never fault anyone for their personal preference w.r.t. audio.
I dont doubt that for sure...
And I am perfectly ok with your last post....
I dont judge vinyl nor digital users because of the relative incomparability of each rung on the Price/S.Q. ratio in play.... And also because of the refine technology we can use in the vinyl and in the digital case...
I myself use files most of the times and cd....For storage facility and for the high quality made possible by technology....
Of course digital is better than analog 🔜 in principle 🔙 That’s kind of the whole point. Hel-loo! It’s space age technology, you know, quantum mechanics and nanotechnology and all that jazz 🎶 🤗
I think it boils down to my stuff, is better than that stuff.... Whatever that stuff might be...It may be your stuff, my old stuff, or somebody else’s stuff.
It could be NEW stuff, or even different stuff, ay?
Music, no ears required.
It should be AUDIO-AGAPE it’s not conditional. Just the love and pursuit of music, not more, not less.
The word phile is from the word Philo, meaning to excite, passion, infatuation, a type of love.
When adding anything to "what it means to be an audiofiler", it no longer carries the same meaning...
Sound lover.. got it.. Not Turntable, and certainly not Reel to Reel... I think less than 1% on these forums even know what one looks like. Much less how expensive it is to run that stuff, talk about old hat... I still have a few reels around.. Most any CD will out do mine. It’s old stuff...
You don’t join the club, you ARE the club....Your own little "CLUB"
Heck you can even have your own uniforms. Me I just wear a HAT.. That’s it just a hat....
I was wondering why the chickens quit laying eggs.. Vet told me I had to wear clothes, I was scarin’ the HELL out of the chickens..
The Rooster, was a little envious too. Sorry Bud...(that’s the rooster’s name)
See oldhvymec, we can agree. The format, how much you spent, etc. matters not to being an audiophile, its about the passion for your own little piece of audio nirvana.
We must discuss things that matters, except for personal preference and anecdotal subjectives histories, always interesting for sure, but without consequences for our own history most of the times; I think that, for me personally, the embeddings of any audio system are of the utmost importance for the experience, even more important than technological engineering details and design.... Why ?
Because be it for my actual vintage s.s. Sansui amplifier, or for my future ZOTL dreamed Berning tubes amplifier, a contemporary technology, the embeddings are the most important factors for using any of the 2 at their optimal potential in the best environment, never mind their technological particular design....The same thing is true for speakers and dac or turntables.....Even for headphones but in a lesser way....
Vibrations-resonance controls, electrical house grid controls, and acoustical controls, are the 3 key factors for any gear of any design....
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