Should people with no turntable or reel to reel be considered audiophiles?
Just like those driving a Porsche SUV can join PCA (digital audio fans can join Audiogon) but are certainly not Porschephiles unless they also own a coupe (Panamera owners I guess gets a pass here).
Please respond with a yes or no and we'll tally a vote for the first 100 responses.
Anybody with 1 ear and a 'transistor radio' with an ear piece stuck on a 28 AWG wire who can snap their fingers to rock and roll is now an "audiophile" if they got a AAA battery. And a real audiophile would drive a BMW, not a Porsche. The "ultimate" machine! And if side-by-side comparison of turntable to CD is not enough, I play a new vinyl record on each of two serious systems with two different turntables. Each has it's own charm. And I have good CD equipment too and we all know the best thing about CDs is that you don't have to get up and turn the record over! And if you think this is all a load, well, you are not an audiophile, so it does not matter.
No. Are you kidding. No No No No No...A TT is required period, even if you have a RR. Your car comparison stinks. Any real
Porsche owner knows only 911 series cars counts. (just kidding, don't really care what anyone thinks, just enjoy the music) Cheers!
I thought the comedy shows start at 9PM on Saturdays...
Nobody has called me too young for anything lately (thanks asvjerry), but I sure would like to see the turntable in a car contraption.
Audio in the car is the worst possible noise scenario imaginable. I don't even try to improve whatever branded system is installed by the car manufacturer (I am sure JBL or Bose or Mark Levinson of Bang and Olufson's best engineers had nothing to do with that crap).
Cheers to Glupson for trying with cassettes. Certainly continuous, but I think the best is just waving the flag and listening to XM/Sirius and getting some exposure to new things. It has spurred many an album purchase over the last 6 years or so.
Rconk - its not about the brand - its about the car (says a self described Porschephile- although not a serious one-those guys only drive air cooled). I had an M3 (and other BMWs before that). I loved that car, but when it was time to change, BMW didn't offer the M3 and then blew it with the replacement that was a disaster.
Once I tried a 911, I said I would drive it until I couldn't get out of it. New Vette looks pretty good....but I have to have a sunroof, so that doesn't;t quallfy (TTop and Cab only). Thankfully I still can, can't say that about the NSX unfortunately which is better handling/more fun than the 911 in handling but nobody thinks about it because Acura can't market it.
Perhaps sound quality in cars is underrated. Modern automobiles should have a reasonably good signal to noise ratio with the windows up 🔝 ROLLS ROYCE would be even better, especially with the oil-filled suspension system for mechanical isolation. Battery power, good acoustic space and crossover-less speakers - Voila! Audiophile grade SQ.
Of course. It's a ridiculous, snob-driven question. The satisfaction for the audiophile is the sound of his or her best liking, not the media he or she plays to achieve it. Having been through and gotten rid of many tables and one hundred times as many albums, I find good quality digital sources played through with my S.E.T. or Push-Pull amps to suit just fine. This coming from the previous owner of a very high end salon that carried both analog and digital.
I, for one, don't own a Porsche (Or a Merc, or a BMW, or what have you). I do have a collection of some 350LP's, but no TT...Does this mean I am not an Audiophile? That 'I am too lazy' to spin Vinyl? Not by a long shot. I enjoy my 400 CD's collection, and I have arranged myself a very modestly-priced set-up, which consists of a $25 USB Splitter, connected to a USB port at the back of my PC, from which a (cheap and cheerful!) RCA cable is connected to an (equally cheap!) USB cable. The entire setup cost me about $90. Now, before anybody feels the need to ridicule me, all I have to do is type, in Cortana, the name of any concert/album/song I wish to listen to, and I stream YouTube files (Yes, I know, some of them are compressed, lossy, blah blah...) Truth is, most of the time, I enjoy an SQ that equals that of a modestly-priced TT, and often-times equal that of my (admittedly dated) CD Player.
"...I think the best is just waving the flag and listening to XM/Sirius "
Not many of those stock car stereo cassette players came with Sirius or XM.
In another car, I found Sirius/XM so bad that even news were unlistenable. Partly due to sound quality and partly due to content.
Burmester in Mercedes S Coupe is quite good.
Speaking of Burmester in this thread, check them out in non-Porsches like Cayenne, too.
So, you can be a Porschephile and audiophile at the same time. They put them in the little ones, too. How will you fit in it is another question and what your body will do to first, second, third, and eighteenth reflections is yet another question only audiophilic Porrschephiles may be able to answer.
My definition of an audiophile is someone who tries to achieve higher fidelity sound than an appliance type (Iphone and headphones, a built-in computer speaker, etc). This definition permits a wide variety of attempts, whether successful or not, at attaining high fidelity to music (or sound in many cases). People accuse me of being an audiophile because I have a higher end audio system but most of my equipment is 15 to 30 years old. My tweaks are recent as are my latest cabling so, yes I am an audiophile but my primary concern is with music and it's reproduction to enhance my enjoyment.
"Accuse" you of being an Audiophile? I didn't know it was a crime. I think the older the gear that you know about and appreciate (and hopefully some new stuff), the more serious of an Audiophile you are.
Same as with Porsches - the guys who know every model ever made (not counting SUVs) - their options and configurations by year, how many were produced/sold in US, etc. are the most knowledgeable/serious Porschephiles.
They typically drive an air cooled 911 of some flavor between 1968 and 1998 (or have one or more in the garage on a trickle charger) and spend a good deal of time (or used to) driving at the track, optimally as an instructor at Driver's Education events. Dr. Porsche would tell them to get the cars out of the garage and enjoy them.
I'm a lightweight - no track (too expensive and risky) and a water cooled engine daily driver, although I know a lot about 1999-2020 models of 911s, Boxsters and Caymans. Some about the older models, but never owned one.
Nothing wrong with old equipment fleschler. My speakers were made in 1981. I still have them because nothing better has come along that I like better. My original amps finally blew so they have been changed. Preamp and phono amp are 25 years old and I have no inclination to change them. It is time for a new turntable as the wow and flutter after cleaning is a not so hot 0.30 % . I've got a new belt coming but I have a feeling that won't fix it. It owes me nothing. I believe an audiophile is a music lover that manages his own system. A lot of people buy a system and use it. They never try new equipment or play with their gear. If something breaks they call the shop who deals with it. They are not about to care about their turntables wow and flutter and probably have no idea what that means. They also don't get sucked into directional wire and cable elevators. Only an audiophile can delude themselves into thinking that stuff works. Boom🎆
You contradicted yourself saying an audiophile likes old equipment and tries to keep it if it sounds good to them, then you say audiophiles are tweakers who delude themselves with useless stuff (which is true much of the time).
asvjerry, I think I dislike "bi-phile" even more than "double audiophile". How about "audiophile overachiever"?
glupson, I’ve never owned a Porsche either. Have owned a Mercedes, BMW (car & bikes), & an old Land Rover which made me realize I had to suffer to enjoy the automobile hobby.
Quick, no cheating on Google (although it will take you a little there, too), what files and to what resolution does a Burmester system in 911GTS play?
Audiophilic Porschephiles, you know it for sure. If you do not, you are neither.
Land Rover (short) used to be my dream car. It never became the reality. I only got as far as to be chauffeured in the back of the white ambulance-converted one (looked like it was from the 1960s-1970s, I guess). For a good reason.
I did ride in the Police 911, too. For no good reason.
An Audiophile is a Gearhead who also loves to listen to music. He/She will often spend more than they can comfortably afford in order to get a great sounding system. It's fine as long as they're enjoying the hobby.
A Music Lover can listen to a Sony Walkman and be perfectly happy. But they could also get curious about a shop that carries a pair of incredible sounding speakers, and then trying to decide if it's worth it to buy something like that.
Be it sight, sound, the smell, the touch. There’s something, Inside that we need so much, The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, Or the strength of an arquebus deep in the ground. The wonder of flowers, to be covered, and then to burst up, through tarmack, to the sun again, Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing, To have all these things in our memories hoard, And to use them, To help us,
Absolutely yes. I can’t afford a Porsche, can’t drive a stick because of my knees, and don’t have a sports car because it’s not practical, but it doesn’t mean I’m not a car guy with an interest in higher performance vehicles. Likewise, with audio. My system is vintage mid-fi because I have to provide for my family and pay my mortgage, but that doesn’t keep me from reading everything I can about high end equipment and dreaming of the system I would buy if I hit lotto. As it turns out, I do own a turntable, but that’s mostly due to my age and the amount of LP’s I’ve carried around with me from my youth. I enjoy listening to my vinyl, but truth be told, I mostly listen to digital music because of the variety I can access online. And yes, I do consider myself an Audiophile.
It is snobbish attitudes like this that keep our hobby from growing. We need less elitism and certainly less arrogance. We are not and should not be a chummy little club barring the door against the masses.
Given the current political environment, attitudes that created unspoken barriers to entry are what led to restricted communities, clubs, and employers.
As as for the auto reference, 928 owners are embraced as Porschefiles, just as Fiat Dino and Lancia Stratos owners are embraced by Ferrari owners.
"...just as Fiat Dino and Lancia Stratos owners are embraced by Ferrari owners."
You mean Lancia Stratos owners actually accept to mingle with Ferrari owners? Now, that is what you call not being snobbish and letting mundane ones rub the shoulders with you.
What is next? Delta HF Integrale asking for approval at some beauty contest?
Glupson said only an audiophile can be deluded into thinking directional wire and wire elevators work, but before that said they don't get sucked into that thinking. Which is it?
French Fries is right on the money.
Vonharaland - people come to PCA meetings with all kinds of cars, especially if it's raining. I think the only technical requirement for actual PCA membership is if you own or once owned a Porsche. Nobody has ever been kicked out of a meeting for any reason. We're nice. I'm sure that includes former members who didn't pay their renewal dues.
Nicola - you ARE definitely an Audiophile, but not a Porschephile (or not even a car guy).
Who is barring the doors to the masses as far as Audiophiledom? The problem is most people in our society don't care about getting the highest quality - they care about the most convenience (and cost - maybe). It takes time to place a record on the platter, brush it for lint, take the albums into sleeves and then into their jacket, and then keep them perfectly vertical on the shelf. Twice as often for 45s, which sound better (another discussion). I think any Audiophile is at least a little OCD (as I'm sure I am) or else their albums probably sound like crap. As I said many times - it is a self defining term.
And yes 928 owners are certainly welcomed in with open arms. We like rare cars and they have mostly been covered to parts cars.
Separate question that I haven't been able to get answered in another discussion about phono stages (not sure why). What is the advantage of a balanced input or output for phono stages? Is that feature only available on very expensive models? Is there a special MC voltage where this feature is helpful?
Sorry for the divergence, but this discussion seems to be getting a larger audience.
"Glupson said only an audiophile can be deluded into thinking directional wire and wire elevators work, but before that said they don’t get sucked into that thinking. Which is it?"
I would like to clarify, but I am fully lost with that sentence. I somehow do not remember it. I would think that, overall, other people ("non-audiophiles") may be more prone to believing in whatever "audiophiles" say, cable elevators included, than audiophiles. Audiophiles waste more time thinking about these kinds of things. Normal people just shrug their shoulders.
All this bunk makes me want to get a Tesla; Stuttgart ‘s great cluggers aside.Boasting about my ride doesn’t make me a man.Decrying only those with a turntable are audiophiles is elitist clap trap.
I’m listening to Dylan’s new Sprechgesang “Rough and Rowdy Ways” on Qobuz with no turntable in site. And yes Virginia I’m an Audiophile.
Anyone who loves music is my club maybe with the exception of a gamelan music hoedown. Many if us can’t afford the Crème de la Crème but we know about it. That’s why many are here.
Sokohgear, I said that not glupson. I also said that audiophiles like to manage their own gear. I did not say that they but new gear every five minutes. Only Mike L seems to do that. We clean and set up our own turntables, change tubes, make our own cables if we are smart audiophiles and spend more time listening to music than most people. We also have a tendency to appreciate sports cars and bicycles. I have a new Specialized Diverge. Built it up Campy Super Record 12 speed EPS Disc with Fulcrum tubeless wheels and Hutchinson Sector 32 tires. Ugly bike , heavenly ride. My old Merlin will have to do swim suit duty. What an FN record, The Crane Wife by the Decemberists. The whole house is bouncing 🥴
Separate question that I haven’t been able to get answered in another discussion about phono stages (not sure why). What is the advantage of a balanced input or output for phono stages? Is that feature only available on very expensive models? Is there a special MC voltage where this feature is helpful?
I must admit that designers of ultra expensive High-End audio equipment are very slow and probably the last people in audio who came into balanced (XLR) connection, because this is the ONLY TYPE of connectors (inputs,outputs,interconnect) professionals are using for ages. Come to any studio and you will never find any RCA unbalanced cables, ONLY XLR (Balanced) for everything including microphones.
You can run only balanced cables from MC cartridge to the speakers like Zu Audio Druid (they have XLR port too)
chakster I must admit that designers of ultra expensive High-End audio equipment are very slow and probably the last people in audio who came into balanced (XLR) connection, because this is the ONLY TYPE of connectors (inputs,outputs,interconnect) professionals are using for ages. Come to any studio and you will never find any RCA unbalanced cables, ONLY XLR (Balanced) for everything including microphones.
>>>>>Huh? The pros only use XLR? For that reason I’m out.
>>>>>Huh? The pros only use XLR? For that reason I’m out.
Please use quote button when you want to quote someone, it will help readers to understand.
You don’t need XLR for your walkman or cassette deck, but try to tell something about RCA to someone on the studio when you need a cable over 5 meters long. Our music recorded with XLR cables only (all studio gear connected with XLR, balanced).
I think Ralph explained million times the benefit of XLR for LOMC cartridges on this forum, someone could search on the forum.
Thanks so much Chakster. Sounds like it is an issue for long interconnects and Very special situations within the home audio context we discuss. There was another discussion about this and the guy had to have balanced ones.
My turntable cable can’t be changed without big time work on the tone arm with a complete wire replacement from cartridge 4pin connector to end of wire rca -I mean balanced plug.
No thanks-I’ll trust Roy Gandy- he knows more than me and has a pretty successful outfit especially known for their tonearms called Rega.
Michelle- MM owners can certainly be audiophiles-they just choose to spend less on a cartridge. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this Is one area I think Is of universal Audiophile agreement. In general MCs sound better than MMs, just cost more and you have to worry about the phono stage matching to its voltage output.
Hey Chakster-should I worry about my 5’ or 1.5 meter interconnect going from my phono stage to my preamp? It’s a Kimber PB&J.
Moving the boxes around and switching to a shorter Interconnect cable (which I have a .5 meter one of the same brand) would work without any $$ investment. Would you say this is a no brainer and I should definitely do it?
The last time I tried it, a couple of years ago, it was the ultimate non-audiophile car. You could only listen to music via Bluetooth (or radio). USB ports were for charging, it seemed. I am not sure if it has changed since then, but be careful.
Glupson is the type who will order the Burmester system when he gets his Porsche. The Bose system is not good enough for him not to mention BOSE all over the door panels would be a huge embarrassment. Personally, until Tesla makes an interior I can enjoy sitting in I'm out. Anybody who uses a rock to scrape a trench is an audiophile. I have not been here long enough to get a handle on millercarbon. I suspect he is well intentioned. All cartridges are balance devices to begin with. Cable length would not matter so much and the noise floor would drop if manufacturers would put balanced inputs on their units. It is happening slowly. In the mean while most of us are stuck with RCA inputs. Can you convert an RCA input to a balanced input by installation of the right jack isolating ground? Anybody know?
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